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What Player Options Changed in the Adventurer's Guide? A Compilation Thread


Advice

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The newly released Adventurer's Guide is chock full of reprinted material, much of which has been altered from previous incarnations.

I'm starting this thread so that we, the forum community, can compile a list of all of the new book's reprinted material and their changes. That way, people can be better informed when making decisions about their characters (new or old).

For example:

Lore Warden (archetype) - Originally Printed in the Pathfinder Field Guide


  • Scholastic now grants additional class skills (Craft, Knowledge, Linguistics, Spellcraft) in addition to its previous effects
  • Expertise is now called "Skill Over Strength" and allows you to qualify for feats as though you had Combat Expertise. It no longer grants the Combat Expertise bonus feat UNTIL you reach 6th-level. At 10th-level, you can treat your base attack bonus as 2 higher for the purposes of the effects of Combat Expertise.
  • Several class abilities are now variable options, like rogue talents or barbarian rage powers, called Sword Secrets. Sword Secrets are gained at 3rd-level, and every 4 levels thereafter.
  • Know Weakness is now the Exploit Weakness sword secret. Rather than auto-confirming critical hits once per round, you add 1/3 your lore warden level to confirmation rolls. At 11th-level, when you confirm, you ignore 5 points of DR or hardness until the end of your next turn. At 19th-level, you can auto-confirm once critical per round, as before.
  • Hair's Breath, now a sword secret, is now only usable once per day at low levels, and twice per day at high levels, rather than at will.
  • Know Thy Enemy, now a sword secret, no longer lasts the full encounter, instead lasting a number of rounds equal to half your level (minimum 2). At 11th-level, you gain a +2 bonus to AC as well. At 19th-level the insight bonuses to attack, damage, and AC increase to +3.
  • Maneuver Mastery, now a sword secret, has been replaced by the brawler's Maneuver Training class feature.
  • Swift Lore is now Swift Assessment, a sword secret that can be taken any time (but only after Exploit Weakness is taken). It appears to work the same.

I would appreciate, and look forward to, the community's participation in this. It's much too big a project for me alone.


Overall if you stick with it the class comes out better.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Cavall wrote:
Overall if you stick with it the class comes out better.

Unless you were specializing in combat maneuvers I suppose. That took a pretty big hit compared to the previous version. Much of the rest of it is about the same, or better though. Overall, I think it a positive change.

Let's stay on topic though. There's plenty of other threads for commentary. This thread is meant to compile useful information, not opinions.


Lore Warden's Scholastic ability previously granted Appraise/Craft/Knowledge/Linguistics/Spellcraft, and two extra Int-based skill ranks per level. Is the only difference the lack of Appraise and a different wording?


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I don't understand why they didn't take the chance with the update to give this archetype Acrobatics as a class skill, considering one of its unique abilities... Oh well.

Does Scholastic still retain the extra +2 skill points granted by the original version? Also, are there more Sword Secret than what you presented?


I heard you also lose your 2nd level feat, anything for that or is it not true?


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
citricking wrote:
I heard you also lose your 2nd level feat, anything for that or is it not true?

Yep. It's gone.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Seems I missed a few things (too late to edit the above). The Lore Warden also loses ALL of bravery, rather than just bravery 1.

shaventalz wrote:
Lore Warden's Scholastic ability previously granted Appraise/Craft/Knowledge/Linguistics/Spellcraft, and two extra Int-based skill ranks per level. Is the only difference the lack of Appraise and a different wording?

According to the d20pfsrd, they never got those class skills previously. You still get the two ranks per level, which can only be used on Intelligence skills. I've edited my post above to be more clear.

Insofar as I can tell, they do not get Appraise as a class skill.

Faelyn wrote:
I don't understand why they didn't take the chance with the update to give this archetype Acrobatics as a class skill, considering one of its unique abilities... Oh well.

Acrobatics remains a cross-class skill insofar as I can tell.

Faelyn wrote:

Does Scholastic still retain the extra +2 skill points granted by the original version?

You still get the two ranks per level, which can only be used on Intelligence skills. I've edited my post above to be more clear.

Faelyn wrote:

Also, are there more Sword Secret than what you presented?

They all seem to be old/updated abilities. There don't appear to be any new ones.

citricking wrote:
I heard you also lose your 2nd level feat, anything for that or is it not true?

It appears to be true.


Is the Red mantis Assassin different in any way? That's the only other one I know of that was reprinted

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
dharkus wrote:
Is the Red mantis Assassin different in any way? That's the only other one I know of that was reprinted

They can now cast spells in light armor as bards do, and get to use sawtooth sabres with Weapon Finesse. ^_^

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

In other news, I saw Tribal Scars on Luthorne's big list of content. I'd be surprised if that feat made it into the Adventurer's Guide without losing something big. (My money's on the bonus hp being reduced or removed entirely, since that would get it to about standard feat levels.)


Ravingdork wrote:

shaventalz wrote:
Lore Warden's Scholastic ability previously granted Appraise/Craft/Knowledge/Linguistics/Spellcraft, and two extra Int-based skill ranks per level. Is the only difference the lack of Appraise and a different wording?

According to the d20pfsrd, they never got those class skills previously. You still get the two ranks per level, which can only be used on Intelligence skills. I've edited my post above to be more clear.

Insofar as I can tell, they do not get Appraise as a class skill.

They previously would have gotten those skills since all INT skills were now class skills. So basically they lost appraise.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Talonhawke wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

shaventalz wrote:
Lore Warden's Scholastic ability previously granted Appraise/Craft/Knowledge/Linguistics/Spellcraft, and two extra Int-based skill ranks per level. Is the only difference the lack of Appraise and a different wording?

According to the d20pfsrd, they never got those class skills previously. You still get the two ranks per level, which can only be used on Intelligence skills. I've edited my post above to be more clear.

Insofar as I can tell, they do not get Appraise as a class skill.

They previously would have gotten those skills since all INT skills were now class skills. So basically they lost appraise.

Ah. I totally missed that! Quite right. Glad I'm not the only one working on this.


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Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kalindlara wrote:
In other news, I saw Tribal Scars on Luthorne's big list of content. I'd be surprised if that feat made it into the Adventurer's Guide without losing something big. (My money's on the bonus hp being reduced or removed entirely, since that would get it to about standard feat levels.)

The bonus hit points have been removed entirely; it appears to otherwise be identical.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

In regards to the Red Mantis Assassin, the only change I see is that sabre training now allows the Red Mantis to treat their sabers as light weapons for all purposes, including using Weapon Finesse with them.

The rest is identical in function, though much of the wording has been cleaned up, such as saying "move action," instead of "move-equivalent action;" changing the reactive free action of the fading class ability to an immediate action; saying "modifier (minimum 1)" instead of "bonus (minimum 1)" in a few places, etc.

Insofar as I can tell, they could already ignore spell failure in light armor in both the old and new versions.


Thanks for the clarification, RD.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Hmm, does that mean Red mantis can use Sabres with Piranha Strike?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Taenia wrote:
Hmm, does that mean Red mantis can use Sabres with Piranha Strike?

It clearly states they are treated as light weapons "for all purposes." So, yes. That should work.


Are the Hellknight and Signifier Prestiges both reprints?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm not sure I understand the question. They're both definitely in there.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The student of war Prestige Class has a new class ability: "Additional Skill," which allows them to choose additional class skills at every odd level in the class.

They also get small additional bonuses if they already have Critical Focus or Mobility for the Martial Stance and Defensive Stance, respectively.


Shisumo wrote:

The student of war Prestige Class has a new class ability: "Additional Skill," which allows them to choose additional class skills at every odd level in the class.

They also get small additional bonuses if they already have Critical Focus or Mobility for the Martial Stance and Defensive Stance, respectively.

They are old PrCs from Inner Sea World Guide. Desperately in need of an update. Hoped they'd have new stuff.


Any changes to Aldori Dueling Disciple and its feat line (for reference: Duelist of the Roaring Falls, Duelist of the Shrouded Lake, and Falling Water Gambit)?


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Man, one of the players in my group is gonna throw a tantrum at Tribal Scars losing the HP bonus...


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
HenshinFanatic wrote:
Any changes to Aldori Dueling Disciple and its feat line (for reference: Duelist of the Roaring Falls, Duelist of the Shrouded Lake, and Falling Water Gambit)?

Aldori Dueling Disciple - Same

Aldori Dueling Mastery - Functionally the same, but now has some additional parenthetical text explaining what it means to have one hand free, and also says "Although the dueling sword deals slashing damage, you treat it as if it were also a piercing weapon when determining the effects of weapons used by a duelist or swashbuckler."

Duelist of the Roaring Falls - Phrasing is slightly different, but is functionally identical

Duelist of the Shrouded Lake - Same

Falling Water Gambit - Same

There appear to be a couple other Aldori feats as well, including a new Aldori style feat tree.


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
ChibiNyan wrote:
Shisumo wrote:

The student of war Prestige Class has a new class ability: "Additional Skill," which allows them to choose additional class skills at every odd level in the class.

They also get small additional bonuses if they already have Critical Focus or Mobility for the Martial Stance and Defensive Stance, respectively.

They are old PrCs from Inner Sea World Guide. Desperately in need of an update. Hoped they'd have new stuff.

Just checked hellknight. No changes whatsoever. Almost the same for signifier- no added support for psychic signifiers. (Flavor text says that yeah, it's possible, but it's rare, and there might eventually be more.) The only change seems to be that the Scrutiny version of Assiduous Gaze can distinguish psychic magic along with divine and arcane.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:
There appear to be a couple other Aldori feats as well, including a new Aldori style feat tree.

I hope Garen's Discipline and Sirian's Masterstroke are still as awesome as they were when I sent them in. ^_^

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Isabelle Lee wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
There appear to be a couple other Aldori feats as well, including a new Aldori style feat tree.
I hope Garen's Discipline and Sirian's Masterstroke are still as awesome as they were when I sent them in. ^_^

*looks up feats*

Looks awesome to me :3


Does the new Lore Warden archetype mess with Weapon Training or Weapon Mastery at all? I really hope not... otherwise my Lore Warden/Martial Master is going to be retired...


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Faelyn wrote:
Does the new Lore Warden archetype mess with Weapon Training or Weapon Mastery at all? I really hope not... otherwise my Lore Warden/Martial Master is going to be retired...

Unless you combined it with an archetype that needed bravery, you should be fine.


Rysky wrote:
Isabelle Lee wrote:
I hope Garen's Discipline and Sirian's Masterstroke are still as awesome as they were when I sent them in. ^_^

*looks up feats*

Looks awesome to me :3

Brief outline please? Plus a bit about the style feat tree? (I was pretty bummed about how weak Swordplay Style was in WMH; it'd be neat if there's an alternative.)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ludovicus wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Isabelle Lee wrote:
I hope Garen's Discipline and Sirian's Masterstroke are still as awesome as they were when I sent them in. ^_^

*looks up feats*

Looks awesome to me :3

Brief outline please? Plus a bit about the style feat tree? (I was pretty bummed about how weak Swordplay Style was in WMH; it'd be neat if there's an alternative.)

This thread isn't for sneak peaks. Go to the product discussion thread for that.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Tales Subscriber
Dark Midian wrote:
Man, one of the players in my group is gonna throw a tantrum at Tribal Scars losing the HP bonus...

Here, here... I have a Kellid Fighter going through the Emerald Spire. That bonus 6 HP has saved him more times than i can count...


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Modules Subscriber

I can understand why at first level it might be considered too powerful, but Tribal Scars is really not unbalanced at 8th level. My DM will probably just let me keep the old version but still, this is not enthusing me to purchase the book.

Dark Archive

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I gotta say. This book is starting to unnerve me. It's starting to sound like the big book of "let's nerf a bunch useful archetypes so half of all pfs characters have to be rebuild or shelved".


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Less of that, more of a "we see that these things trivialize certain encounter types (an entire party of Clear Spindle in Wayfinder characters with Suppress Charms and Compulsions ready to go vs Succubi is a clear example) we want to see in our PFS scenarios, so let's make them less useful." I don't think anybody but a Lore Warden is going to need to rebuild from this, and stuff won't be as borked as it was during the errata for Ultimate Equipment. It's just annoying little tweaks.

Dark Archive

I guess I jumped the gun a bit. No alignment restrictions for mantis zealot, thankfully. I don't have to rebuild.


I don't mind a normalization of character options, but character power should also be normalized too.

Dark Archive

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Secret Wizard wrote:
I don't mind a normalization of character options, but character power should also be normalized too.

I agree. A lot of mechanics seem to sacrifice power for flavor. The gray maiden archetypes in particular have great flavor, but seem objectively weaker than the standard classes they alter.


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Cory Stafford 29 wrote:
I agree. A lot of mechanics seem to sacrifice power for flavor. The gray maiden archetypes in particular have great flavor, but seem objectively weaker than the standard classes they alter.

Flavor was one of my major priorities for my sections of the Adventurer's Guide. Good to know I succeeded there, at least. ^_^


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Cory Stafford 29 wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
I don't mind a normalization of character options, but character power should also be normalized too.
I agree. A lot of mechanics seem to sacrifice power for flavor. The gray maiden archetypes in particular have great flavor, but seem objectively weaker than the standard classes they alter.

I dunno, that cavalier archetype is pretty good. Makes for a downright scary military commander, with all the crazy tactics stuff you can pull off.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Besides Lore Warden, Pathfinder Savant was also reprinted and updated. I've got a PF Savant in PFS who won't mind this change one bit--I did a comparison last night, feature to feature, and I didn't notice anything missing. The new Savant does, however, gain three extra possible levels in the prestige class. The new Savant also has some minor fixes to wording to ensure the abilities behave as intended. All in all, it seems like a win to me.

I probably won't be able to look much at this until later but it seems like an interesting book. Shame about some of the stealth erratas, but I personally like the combination of fluff and mechanics as presented.

Sovereign Court

What changed in the Pathfinder Savant? I've got a character moving in that direction, he's almost qualifying.


Luthorne wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
In other news, I saw Tribal Scars on Luthorne's big list of content. I'd be surprised if that feat made it into the Adventurer's Guide without losing something big. (My money's on the bonus hp being reduced or removed entirely, since that would get it to about standard feat levels.)
The bonus hit points have been removed entirely; it appears to otherwise be identical.

So does this mean that my 2nd level PFS Oread Aerokineticist needs to retrain? The hp was the big draw of the feat; he had 20hp @ 1st (30 now).

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
K-kun the Insane wrote:
So does this mean that my 2nd level PFS Oread Aerokineticist needs to retrain? The hp was the big draw of the feat; he had 20hp @ 1st (30 now).

Knowing PFS, you'll probably either get to keep the feat (but lose the hp to match the new version), or retrain to any other feat you qualified for at first level at no cost. ^_^


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Kalindlara wrote:
K-kun the Insane wrote:
So does this mean that my 2nd level PFS Oread Aerokineticist needs to retrain? The hp was the big draw of the feat; he had 20hp @ 1st (30 now).
Knowing PFS, you'll probably either get to keep the feat (but lose the hp to match the new version), or retrain to any other feat you qualified for at first level at no cost. ^_^

This is actually addressed in the current Guide, page 8.

Page 8 wrote:
If a feat or trait changes or is removed from the Additional Resources list, you have two options: You can switch the old feat for an updated feat of the same name in another legal source (if available), ignoring any prerequisites of the new feat you do not meet, or you can replace the feat (and any of the old feat’s prerequisite feats) entirely with another feat for which you meet all the prerequisites.

Whether they errata or "clarify" the old one to match the new, or just ban the old one outright, you should be OK to swap it out. That being said, Additional Resources doesn't include this book yet, so no changes on your part are necessary yet (or even allowed.)

I'm more worried what they'll do about ioun stone resonances. The only reason some of these stones were ever purchased was their resonance power, which isn't technically part of the item itself. Plus, the guide doesn't actually take any item "updates" or most class changes into account, so...


Ascalaphus wrote:
What changed in the Pathfinder Savant? I've got a character moving in that direction, he's almost qualifying.

Seconding this. The product thread is a mess and I would love to know some specifics.


shaventalz wrote:
I'm more worried what they'll do about ioun stone resonances. The only reason some of these stones were ever purchased was their resonance power, which isn't technically part of the item itself. Plus, the guide doesn't actually take any item "updates" or most class changes into account, so...

What does the Adventurer's Guide do to ioun stone resonances?


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Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
shaventalz wrote:
I'm more worried what they'll do about ioun stone resonances. The only reason some of these stones were ever purchased was their resonance power, which isn't technically part of the item itself. Plus, the guide doesn't actually take any item "updates" or most class changes into account, so...
What does the Adventurer's Guide do to ioun stone resonances?

The Clear Spindle resonance is no longer constant Protection from Evil, it's now limited to 1/day(?) or you can burn out the stone entirely to activate it as an immediate action if you're about to be hit with a possession/control effect.

That's the one everyone talked about in the product discussion thread, not sure what else might have changed.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

I think they all changed, but I can't be sure. The only one I knew was the dusty rose (+2 CMB/CMD) which took a significant hit (+1 CMB).

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