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Nobody minded getting a book that put many of the organizations in one spot. The problems a lot of people had with the book basically came down to three things:
1) A book on organizations probably should have had a different name.
Indeed.
2) This book should have been kept in the Campaign line, rather than the Core line.
Although the Core Line PDFs are significantly cheaper than the Campaign Line, and they go into the PRD. So choose carefully what to be upset about.
Though if you're publishing things in the Core Line I'd expect some material about "how to file off the Golarion serial numbers" for each section.
3) The book contains a significant amount of reprinted material.
Which I personally see merit in; it reprints a lot of stuff that was years out of print.
But I think it went wrong by not managing expectations well. If the blurb had included a line like "this book bundles lots of hard-to-get out of print things in one handy place" there might have been less complaining.
#1 and #3: These are what bothered me. Getting it and finding not only was it mostly filled with setting specific prestige classes [something I almost never use] but most of the material was reprints of things I already had. While the book was well made and did have some interesting new tidbits floating around, it felt like a bait and switch because it was definitely NOT the book I was expecting to read and it would not of been bought at this time by me. If you don't have the original material and love prestige classes, this was the book for you but sadly I don't think they'd have known that's what this book was unless they read a review or a thread like here.
#2 This didn't bother me so much. If it had been new material about, oh I don't know maybe ADVENTURING, I wouldn't have minded that it had Golarion fluff all over it. I might have thought it odd but I wouldn't complain.
Let's not forget all the AP spoilers they included.
Let's not forget the AP spoilers they included.
AP spoilers? I looked at the product page...
"A wealth of new player options, including feats, spells, magic items, prestige classes, archetypes, and new abilities and powers for a wide range of classes.
Rules and advice on how to incorporate the new options found in this book into your own game"
Note the total and complete lack of "Vast amount of reprinted material that updated out of print material" or "Chock full of prestige classes you already own...". Just opening the book and seeing the volume of prestige classes in the book made me sad. A hint that the book was 1/3rd that would have been nice.
PS: Just what exactly do you mean by "AP spoilers"? I'm unclear what that is referencing.
Spoilers for Hell's Rebels, Curse of the Crimson Throne, Second Darkness, and Council Of Thieves.
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Cap's (not entirely unreasonable) beef is that the flavor sections of certain sections spoil some potentially-major plot elements of certain Adventure Paths, from the old (Second Darkness, Council of Thieves) to the recent (Hell's Rebels, arguably Curse of the Crimson Throne).
I'm not terribly troubled by it, as I've found a fairly functional workaround, but I understand the basis of his complaint.
It's not the reprints that bother me, it's the large number of updates which make this thread necessary that makes the Adventurer's Guide a book I will never purchase. It's hard enough running a game when players at your table are referencing third, fourth, and fifth edition core rules and I as GM have sixth edition. Most notable was a confusing disagreement we had over immunity to baleful polymorph. I eventually got to the bottom of the confusion by referring to the errata document.
Without a cross reference document that is much easier to read than the standard errata document purchasing this book invites a slew of confusion for me as GM. It's hard to have confidence in a book that I will have to constantly cross reference online when looking up player choices.
Cap's (not entirely unreasonable) beef is that the flavor sections of certain sections spoil some potentially-major plot elements of certain Adventure Paths, from the old (Second Darkness, Council of Thieves) to the recent (Hell's Rebels, arguably Curse of the Crimson Throne).
I'm not terribly troubled by it, as I've found a fairly functional workaround, but I understand the basis of his complaint.
Ah, misunderstood him. I had no interest in the flavor sections so I barely glanced at them so I wasn't aware of spoilers. So it was no issue for me, though like you said I can understand his complaint.
p-sto: For me, physical hardbacks are pretty much paperweights/doorstops. It's a bummer as I like to sit a read a book sometimes, but I can't justify getting them:ACG finally pushed me into buying only PDF after it came out and needed errata that invalidated large swathes of the material.
Let's not forget all the AP spoilers they included.
Are these more obvious than, say, the name of the 6th level class feature of the Heritor Knight (which is a reference to an event in Wrath of the Righteous, but it's unlikely anybody who hasn't played that far would get it)? Like do they just come out and say what happens, rather than alluding to it obliquely?
Let's not forget all the AP spoilers they included.Are these more obvious than, say, the name of the 6th level class feature of the Heritor Knight? Like do they just come out and say what happens, rather than alluding to it obliquely?
The Gray Maidens in this books serve different patrons, indicating a certain fate of their original patron. The Council of Thieves is a successor organization that channels the spirit of the original BBEG. Both discuss key plot events, although obviously not all.
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Let's not forget all the AP spoilers they included.Are these more obvious than, say, the name of the 6th level class feature of the Heritor Knight (which is a reference to an event in Wrath of the Righteous, but it's unlikely anybody who hasn't played that far would get it)? Like do they just come out and say what happens, rather than alluding to it obliquely?
While there are eerie similarities there it's actually referring to the Acts of Iomedae, that one in particular where she repaired her sword (Heart's Edge? It's Heart's something).
It is Heart's Edge. But it was lost after I regifted it to someone. I'm sure it'll turn up.
I also don t mind it being called an adventurers guide.
Affiliation Guide would have been a MUCH more accurate title, showing a focus on them more than generic adventuring. I knew organizations where in it but I didn't know that was ALL that was in it.
I've found a lot of cool things in it I'll be using, some of which is updated material.
LOL For me it was 'I've found a lot of updated material and some cool things in it I'll be using.
Now don't get me wrong, there was some nifty thing in it, but for me it was a soft cover worth of nifty and not a hardback worth of nifty...
While there are eerie similarities there it's actually referring to the Acts of Iomedae, that one in particular where she repaired her sword (Heart's Edge? It's Heart's something).
Ah, so that part of the AP was intended to be reference to some piece of background material that nobody at my table caught. My mistake then.
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While there are eerie similarities there it's actually referring to the Acts of Iomedae, that one in particular where she repaired her sword (Heart's Edge? It's Heart's something).Ah, so that part of the AP was intended to be reference to some piece of background material that nobody at my table caught. My mistake then.
From what I've heard about Wrath of the Righteous, the players really should be able to recite the 11 Acts of Iomedae from memory.
Which doesn't seem like an immensely tall order. Just like in a campaign in the River Kingdoms you should be able to name the Six River Freedoms, or in a Vampire campaign you should know the Traditions.
Dark Midian did some amazing work, but I need to point out that the Magaambya section has at least one more re-print: the Magic Warrior magus archetype originally appeared in Inner Sea Intrigue. (I haven't compared the AG version versus the original, so I have no idea if it changed at all.)
(Also, I'm almost certain that I've seen the Halcyon Druid archetype somewhere else too, but I've been unable so far to track that one down.)
From the PFS Additional Resources document, which was updated yesterday:
From the PFS Additional Resources document, which was updated yesterday:
...and that is exactly why I'm glad I haven't played my Lore Warden at 2nd level. I was really hoping Paizo would allow grandfathering of the old Lore Warden, but I had a feeling that was not going to be the case. Off to rebuild him and prepare to use Student of War PrC now...
