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INTEREST CHECK: Evil if the most Vile kind


Sovereign Court

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So, I have always loved playing Evil characters more than good (after all what fun is it being good and helping everyone when you can be doing it just because you love to kill?)

So I have had an idea. I want to run an AP where instead of they standard good character thing that most games expect, your all evil. You help people and such, but most if the time it is an accident or you really just wanted to have fun and never intended to help.

Alternatively it could be a game where your the evil that the hero's have to deal with. In a Dungeon keeper kind of game. Players would be mid level and it would work as a sort of kingdom maker campaign.

I'm just throwing ideas out there right now and am looking for your ideas more than my own.

As a last option I could also just play way of the wicked... Or hell's vengeance

Dark Archive

I've actually been toying with the idea for quite a while to run a sort of reverse Runelords adventure where the PCs actually become the next Runelords. Definately an evil adventure kind of a thing. I've thought that perhaps using Shattered Star as a template might be worth while. Just haven't got around to it yet.

I'd be interested, though from my understanding of WotW or HV, they're kind of limited in the type of evil you can play; you more or less have to be loyal to Asmodeus. I'd rather something more wide-open. More like Skulls & Shackles, say (in fact, that's an AP where it's particularly easy to play any sort of evil).

Sovereign Court

Ouachitonian wrote:
I'd be interested, though from my understanding of WotW or HV, they're kind of limited in the type of evil you can play; you more or less have to be loyal to Asmodeus. I'd rather something more wide-open. More like Skulls & Shackles, say (in fact, that's an AP where it's particularly easy to play any sort of evil).

Well noticed the typo in my thread title, sorry my o is so close to my I.

Anyways, yes Skills and shackles is a good game(and one I could do as well)

EDIT: makes a typo after apologizing for one. GODS BE-

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Kingmaker could actually be a decent enough evil campaign, if I remember correctly. Make it about a group of people who carve out their own despotic warlord kingdom, a wretched hive of scum and villainy...could be fun.

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Dot, dot, dot. Would monstrous characters be an option?
Especially if we start above level 1, I've been wanting to be a dragon for a while now.


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Definitely interested.

The question would be, what kind of evil? Would it be the diabolical quest for power, the ruthlessness of taking what you'd want by force and fear, or the more dystopian gray area of despotism and suppression of those who'd stand before you?

I'm actually in a somewhat evil (Good-ish neutrals becoming evil-ish neutrals) in Skulls and Shackles, as we take over the Shackles by being more terrifying than the enemy. (We made Locke cry.)

I'm also in a fairly morally dubious Reign of Winter, which turns out to be surprisingly possible to do.

I imagine ideas that might work well, for a more homebrew material, would be attempting to take over a struggling nation by working our way up from the lowest reaches of the criminal underworld to the highest spires of the nobility.

From what I've seen on WotW and Hell's Vengeance, it's a party of evil characters that work together for a bigger evil power, under a threat of some sort - I'd quite like an alternative, where the characters themselves have nothing to start but plans, plots, and weaponised lack of morals.

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Oooh, I'd definitely be down for Reign of Winter. Very easy to be a bad guy there.

Hell's Vengeance can get characters who aren't Asmodeus worshipers, they just need to keep it under their hat about it.

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Personally, I think the majority of APs are ill suited to playing Evil characters - in order to work well, villains need a lot more agency than the average Defender of the Status Quo style AP provides.

As such, we'd have to look at the very few APs where the PCs are prime movers.

With that in mind, we'd probably be looking at Kingmaker, Skulls and Shackles, and I'd argue that Hell's Rebels is a lot more suited to Evil characters than Hell's Vengeance.

Rise of the Runelords, Reign of Winter, Second Darkness, Carrion Crown and the like suffers from the fact that you're essentially agents of the status quo. There's nothing for our villains to gain here.

If you made Nirmathas and Phaendar a bit more morally grey, you could easily have the Ironfang Invasion be played by a cast of evil characters out to see the legion burn for what they did to their hometown. The party might even be able to leverage their status as field commanders (I hope this is a thing that'll happen) into political power in the destabilized nation. This is right up evil's alley.

Just look at these summaries from Hell's Vengeance:

"First as amoral mercenaries, then as retainers of the wicked archbaron of Longacre"

"Your villainous adventurers, now official agents of House Thrune, must retake the town"

"The Thrice-Damned House of Thrune wants to seal the Inferno Gate, an uncontrolled portal to Hell, and the nefarious player characters are tapped to accomplish the task"

"Her Infernal Majestrix Queen Abrogail II of Cheliax summons her agents to the city of Egorian to address the current crisis with the Glorious Reclamation"

"Now bound to Queen Abrogail by infernal contracts, the villainous adventurers are given the task of destroying the Glorious"

"Cheliax’s largest city, Westcrown, has fallen to the Glorious Reclamation, and the evil adventurers are sent to reclaim the city in the name of Thrune."

See what all those six books have in common? That's right, you're being ordered, by superiors, to put out fires that someone else started. That's cut-rate evil in service of the status quo, that is, and it offends me.

If I'm to play the villain, I want to start my own fires, dammit! I want to build something that lasts. Otherwise what's the point?

Lawful agents of the status quo can work. 'Put down the bigger bad so our nice kingdom isn't tipped over.'

Alternatively, "Take the big bad's stuff and position." Plenty of motivation for evil characters to go after the Runelords.

I am interested in an evil campaign. I've been meaning to play some sort of evil mind-controlling bard.

Sovereign Court

Well the reason I set this up is because I have a character (I actually love this idea too much!) A cleric of the mother of monsters, Lamashtu. Unfortunately most DM frown apon having a Psychotic murderer as the party healer.

And yes, I will be allowing more monsterous characters, able to look the part as well as play it. Of course I have a few custom races I have made to fit some of those rolls. And as for playing a dragon I will allow the dragon exemplar from "in the company of dragons".

And after all this is mostly an interest check to pull up ideas, frankly my Homebrew works best when others help.

I've always wanted to play way of the wicked or evil king maker. I'm dotting for sure.

Yes! If you choose Hell's vengeance, I have a character already made, for a stalled HV campaign!

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I actually think a number of the Adventure Paths could be played with some tweaking to allow for--and fit--a primarily evil or morally-dubious party.

Some Thoughts:
Rise of the Runelords: The game starts out with goblins attacking Sandpoint, and most of the plot revolves around bigger and badder threats becoming apparent for the town and the surrounding area. The key thing here is that evil doesn't often get along very well with other evil, so you could easily have something like that coming out here. An idea off the top of my head is a Sczarni family who wants to take control of the town fighting against threats to their machinations, or evil adventurers trying to unravel the secrets of Thassilon stumbling upon more truths than they ever expected to find.

Curse of the Crimson Throne: I don't know a ton about it, but from what I do know Korvosa is a very seedy city and it's pretty easy to play some morally gray characters there. I could easily see an up-and-coming crime syndicate composed of the PCs wanting to keep the city from collapsing into utter chaos--after all, it's so much easier to rob people blind when they're focused on other things.

Council of Thieves: I feel like this could go similarly to the CotCT--it's a grim region of Golarion, so playing grayer or grittier characters could probably work well.

Kingmaker: People have already touched on this, and there are plenty of ways to adapt it to fit. You're already being proactive and carving out your society--it's just that it'll be a despotic tyranny or a might-makes-right style kingdom rather than a bastion of light against the darkness.

Serpent's Skull: I don't know a ton about this one, but I feel like even evil characters have a good reason to fight for survival and try to stop a world-altering reptile god from coming back and messing things up.

Jade Regent: So get this: instead of a party of heroes who help the rightful empress of Minkai reclaim her throne, it's a group of opportunists or some such who steal the seal that gives them the right to rule. Some simple rewriting of things--maybe the kami that protects the seal has truly gone insane and helps them as an oni--and blam, a villainous campaign of conquest in a far-off land. Alternatively, the PCs are still helping to rightfully reclaim the throne, but the hereditary ruler isn't nearly as pleasant as the baseline Ameiko. Alternatively, I've plotted out what I call Jade Goblin, where the Licktoad Tribe decides to cross the globe and build a new goblin kingdom... but that might not quite fit.

Skull & Shackles: Just play real, actual, nasty pirates. Just don't like Cheliax, and like having shiny things.

Wrath of the Righteous: Two words: Low Templars. Instead of champions of justice and light, these are the people who get the job done. They're damn good at what they do, and what they do isn't very nice.

Those are just my thoughts on some of the APs that I can particularly see working well with this kind of idea. I do really like the "accidental hero" angle as a concept, though: A game where evil PCs stumble into heroism completely without trying to sounds like a lot of fun. Any of the games that kick off with big trouble would fit well for that.

Re:Jade Regent. Have Scribbleface survive and lead adventurers to wipe out the Licktoads and then go to the new land with Ameiko, players are survivors seeking revenge.

Idea I have for a character is based off of the computer game Fallen London. A Seeker of the Name who is more interested in honing their skills and indulging their hungers than any lofty ideal. Working with morally challenged people on an AP gives plenty of opportunity for both.

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You could actually pull off any AP with the proper twist:


Rise of the Runelords: You're a power-hungry adventurer, and when a powerful empire is rising, you take it upon yourself to claim the Runethrone for yourself! The power of an ancient nation with unlimited wealth might even be more attractive for villains. The power of the Runelords Shall be MINE! MINE!

Curse of the Crimson Throne: The king is dead! Get rid of his troublesome evil queen, and the Crimson Throne shall be YOURS! Mwahahaha!

Second Darkness: Why let the Drow have all the fun? It's only YOU that should have the power to instigate a Second Darkness!

Legacy of Fire: So, the Efreet think they can rule the world? Ha! Let them try. They will only give you power as you seek to conquer the same power they seek!

Council of Thieves: Society is crumbling... It is the perfect time for a group of ambitious and power-hungry politicians to take the stage!

Kingmaker: As mentioned. A country with the rulers as tyrannical overlords, living in opulence as their citizens toil away...

Serpent's Skull: A lost city in the jungle? Full of ancient treasures, and surrounded by uncivilized tribes, ready to be enslaved? Just keep that snake-god off my lawn!

Carrion Crown: The powers of Tar-Baphon will be mine! Mine! The undead must be controlled, crushed under my will, and the Whispering Way will only undermine me.

JR: A new, weak, and easily influenced local is the heir to an ancient nation on the other side of the world? Sounds like an easy way to retire in luxury, with a nation as my footstool.

Skull & Shackles: Self-explanatory. Be the scurvy rascals of the open seas!

Shattered Star: Claim the power of the Sihederon, claim the power of one of the mightiest empires from before the Age of Darkness! The power of the Runelords will be MINE! MINE!

Reign of Winter: (isn't there a Geas involved somewhere in here?) You know... that Baba Yaga? I imagine she'll be pretty thankful to her rescuers. Or, I could just overthrow Queen Elvanna myself- the cold never bothered me anyway.

Wrath of the Righteous: Asmodeus isn't interested in having the demons spill over, and Daemons hate them more than anything. And you know that at least a few demons want to see Deskari fall from power.

Mummy's Mask: Treasure delving, tomb robbing, killing an established monarch? Are we sure this isn't already an evil campaign?

Iron Gods: The Technic League has hoarded far too much. Topple them, and all the goodies of Silver Mount are mine for the taking!

Giantslayer: The story of killing sentient beings and taking their stuff. Perfect for Murderhobos.

Hell's Rebels: Hey, I'm gonna be the top ruler, you got it? I've got no interest in seeing that house of Thrune moving in on MY turf!

Hell's Vengeance: ...

Strange Aeons: Even Evil people like their sanity. And don't like ultra-powerful cosmic entities rising- bad competition, if you know what I mean.

Ironfang Invasion: Those Hobgoblins burned my home! KILL THEM ALL!


Those are excellent suggestions!

I could see a Mummy's Mask group of adventurers that go full Rhodesia on Osirion, exploiting the natives and the tombs for untold riches and power, and I also quite enjoy the Jade Regent idea of being the shadowy puppetmasters behind the throne. Council of Thieves is... well, an obvious option here, too.

For a bit more of a frontal, terrifying force of visible authority, I think Kingmaker would be good, bringing the choice between submission or death to those there. For absolute corruption and horror, being the demonic/devilish/daemonic figures defending Golarion from those who'd take it from us, Wrath of the Righteous would be interesting. Although, that'd also involve powers ordering us about, I imagine.

As for the homebrew ideas, I wouldn't mind the Dungeon Keeper idea. Figuring out how to defend your bastion of evil from pesky paladins is just as fun! (Pits. Paladins fall easily.)

But seeing the response the thread is getting, I'm pretty sure there'd be enough interest. *maniacal laugh*

I agree we all love to play heroes but we all want to experience the other side of morality.

Dotting for evil game =^^=

oh, I love an evil game. I agree that lots of AP's can be fixed. What I would suggest is that applicants write a piece on how their character is evil and what their motivation is to work with the party.

And monstrous characters are very interesting.

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You had me at evil.

Sovereign Court

Well, after all the interest(and good ideas) I think I'll do a Skulls and Shackles. Frankly it's the easiest to make evil.

I'll have a recruitment thread for it open soon.

Recuitment here

Hell's Vengeance's "leash" is less because of Asmodeus, but more due to other constrains, heck, CN, CE and NE have an easier time in it than LE.

MannyGoblin wrote:
Re:Jade Regent. Have Scribbleface survive and lead adventurers to wipe out the Licktoads and then go to the new land with Ameiko, players are survivors seeking revenge.
The Lion Cleric wrote:
I also quite enjoy the Jade Regent idea of being the shadowy puppetmasters behind the throne.

I actually played in an evil Jade Regent campaign. We...

ransacked the caravan, killed Koya, drove off Sandru, enslaved Shalelu, and forcibly wed Ameiko to one of our own. Then we took back the other country for ourselves where we had the best zoo, and one of our number basically overpopulated the kingdom with anything that had legs and some things that didn't. Some encounters were made way too easy by being evil.

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Holy S#!T!

For a truly evil AP, i would be most interested in Kingmaker (or a derived custom setting); indeed becouse it is set up to have the players as the prime movers (and becouse i have been interested in that AP for a while as well).

In Mid-to-high levels, perhaps some templates would be an option as well.

I would be very interested I know just the lady who would like to play.

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