Pathfinder: Kingmaker Announced!


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I backed it. Interesting to see if it will make it over the line .

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Tacticslion wrote:

BACKED. SUPER HYPE.

QUESTION AMIDST HYPE: ADD-ONS; HOW DO.

NEED.

EDIT: for clarity, I'm asking "How does one do the add-ons" because, you know, I'd really like to do some of the add-ons...

(Also: backing the project get only one copy - necessitating a second copy to be purchased for two computers in one house -, or is the one backing enough?)

Once you make your initial pledge. go to "Manage your pledge" and increase it by the amount that the Add-on or Add-ons cost. Then in the Pledge manager after the campaign, you can assign that money to the add ons you want.

Backing the project only gets you one copy, but if you use Steam to redeem it, you can share between family members (if you have that set up) and if you use GOG, it should be DRM free so you can install it on both computers. That said, if you intend for more than one person to play the game at the same time, you could also pledge for the $26 add-on "Extra digital Copy," or you could pledge at a level that grants you a Physical disk, like the Collector's edition.


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Tacticslion wrote:

BACKED. SUPER HYPE.

QUESTION AMIDST HYPE: ADD-ONS; HOW DO.

NEED.

EDIT: for clarity, I'm asking "How does one do the add-ons" because, you know, I'd really like to do some of the add-ons...

(Also: backing the project get only one copy - necessitating a second copy to be purchased for two computers in one house -, or is the one backing enough?)

Stratagemini wrote:

Once you make your initial pledge. go to "Manage your pledge" and increase it by the amount that the Add-on or Add-ons cost. Then in the Pledge manager after the campaign, you can assign that money to the add ons you want.

Backing the project only gets you one copy, but if you use Steam to redeem it, you can share between family members (if you have that set up) and if you use GOG, it should be DRM free so you can install it on both computers. That said, if you intend for more than one person to play the game at the same time, you could also pledge for the $26 add-on "Extra digital Copy," or you could pledge at a level that grants you a Physical disk, like the Collector's edition.

Not only did this answer all of my questions, it did so in ways I wasn't even clear in my request for. Thank you!

I only regret that I have but one Favorite to give!

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Tacticslion wrote:


Not only did this answer all of my questions, it did so in ways I wasn't even clear in my request for. Thank you!

I only regret that I have but one Favorite to give!

No problem.


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Backed for early-bird access. Within just 14 hours they are about 28% funded. I think we may easily see $1 million folks.

Can't wait to hear more about what the stretch goals will be


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A bit disappointed about the real time with pause thing... Then again, I always felt true PnP RPGs are too complex to work turn based. Temple of Elemental Evil tried to make many options available but the UI suffered greatly because there were just too many different things to do.

Anyway, I'm still looking forward to Kingmaker. Never played that AP, so it's completely new too me, which is nice.

Some things I'm still want to know:
- Prestige Classes? This might be asking for too much, but I'd love to play an Eldritch Knight again (last one was in NWN2) or finally being able to play a Mystic Theurge.
- How is aiming area effects handled? Not being able to aim those properly is my biggest concern with RTwP games.


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How did I never think about prestige classes? Jeez, I hope that becomes a stretch goal! Getting to play a Fighter who prestiges into Aldori Swordlord would be the greatest. If not that, I'll take the archetype of the same name.

Here's another thing I am curious about - campaign traits. Traits have joined with archetypes in my opinion in that they are almost needed for any Pathfinder game to feel like it's a true Pathfinder game.


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Blave wrote:

Some things I'm still want to know:

- Prestige Classes? This might be asking for too much, but I'd love to play an Eldritch Knight again (last one was in NWN2) or finally being able to play a Mystic Theurge.

I heard this in the know direction podcast, so take it with a grain of salt, but someone in their chat mentioned their being an arcane trickster in the demo. Hardly a trusted source, but who knows... Hopefully someone on this forum that played the demo does.


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Dead Phoenix wrote:
I heard this in the know direction podcast, so take it with a grain of salt, but someone in their chat mentioned their being an arcane trickster in the demo. Hardly a trusted source, but who knows... Hopefully someone on this forum that played the demo does.

That would be very good news indeed! Here's hoping!

Will have to check out the podcast later. At work right now. Thanks for the link!


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Well, seeing as the Owlcat's development team is playing Pathfinder themselves, I's say some Prestige classes will probably be in the game, and maybe some more as strech goals in the Kickstarter.

So, yeah, high hopes.


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They just confirmed level 20 as cap. That does leave quite some room for prestige classes.

Also, they use the unchained variant of the rogue (no word yet on barbarian or monk as far as I can tell).

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Hopefully Summoner is the very last stretch goal so I don't need to hear people complaining that it's unchained/not unchained.


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Artem Lebeda wrote:

Backed for early-bird access. Within just 14 hours they are about 28% funded. I think we may easily see $1 million folks.

Can't wait to hear more about what the stretch goals will be

That would be awesome, but my fear is that all those who could be categorized as "super-pumped" jumped on board right away. We'll probably have about a week of people jumping on board that are of the "pretty interested" category. Beyond that you're going to be looking at a group of people that are "interested," "sort of interested," and "meh, I've got a few dollars to throw at it and see what happens."

I'll be watching this very closely to see what happens, and probably jump for joy if/when it is fully funded. ;)


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I hope the occult classes are a stretch goal...they're some of my favorites, especially the kineticist and mesmerist.

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
MendedWall12 wrote:

That would be awesome, but my fear is that all those who could be categorized as "super-pumped" jumped on board right away. We'll probably have about a week of people jumping on board that are of the "pretty interested" category. Beyond that you're going to be looking at a group of people that are "interested," "sort of interested," and "meh, I've got a few dollars to throw at it and see what happens."

I'll be watching this very closely to see what happens, and probably jump for joy if/when it is fully funded. ;)

There's been Surprisingly little american Press. No Kotaku, No IGN, no Paizo itself chiming in via a blog or news post. Which honestly is pretty darn weird.

Scarab Sages

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Stratagemini wrote:
MendedWall12 wrote:

That would be awesome, but my fear is that all those who could be categorized as "super-pumped" jumped on board right away. We'll probably have about a week of people jumping on board that are of the "pretty interested" category. Beyond that you're going to be looking at a group of people that are "interested," "sort of interested," and "meh, I've got a few dollars to throw at it and see what happens."

I'll be watching this very closely to see what happens, and probably jump for joy if/when it is fully funded. ;)

There's been Surprisingly little american Press. No Kotaku, No IGN, no Paizo itself chiming in via a blog or news post. Which honestly is pretty darn weird.

Gamespot covered it here which I found on the front page of my Google News feed this morning.

Paizo has a graphic and link to the kickstarter as a banner on the top of their home page in addition to posting the announcement that you are currently commenting on.

So ... not weird?


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MendedWall12 wrote:
Artem Lebeda wrote:

Backed for early-bird access. Within just 14 hours they are about 28% funded. I think we may easily see $1 million folks.

Can't wait to hear more about what the stretch goals will be

That would be awesome, but my fear is that all those who could be categorized as "super-pumped" jumped on board right away. We'll probably have about a week of people jumping on board that are of the "pretty interested" category. Beyond that you're going to be looking at a group of people that are "interested," "sort of interested," and "meh, I've got a few dollars to throw at it and see what happens."

I'll be watching this very closely to see what happens, and probably jump for joy if/when it is fully funded. ;)

Yes, I know I'm replying to myself, call me narcissistic if you want. Just realized, also, that we're also going to be dealing with a, probably not statistically insignificant, number of people who might have backed this project enthusiastically in the past, not doing so because they were completely bushwhacked by whatever the hell Pathfinder Online was. I backed that project too, and have never even attempted to play that "game." There might be a large number of people who won't throw money at this because they are bitter and jaded about that whole fiasco.

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Barbarian is Unchained (but Owlcat isn't sure if they'll used Unchained Rage or regular rage or just give you a choice) and Monk is still in development so they aren't sure yet.

Scarab Sages

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Thanks for keeping an ongoing list of information about the project, Statagemini!

The Exchange

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MendedWall12 wrote:
Yes, I know I'm replying to myself, call me narcissistic if you want. Just realized, also, that we're also going to be dealing with a, probably not statistically insignificant, number of people who might have backed this project enthusiastically in the past, not doing so because they were completely bushwhacked by whatever the hell Pathfinder Online was. I backed that project too, and have never even attempted to play that "game." There might be a large number of people who won't throw money at this because they are bitter and jaded about that whole fiasco.

Maybe, though at least personally, I can very well make the distinction between two projects, especially if there are totally different people working on it.

Apart from that, I own and have played some of the old Nival Interactive games (and I think that I even remember Alexander Mishulin's name from that time) and generally found them quite enjoyable, so the people behind it are not totally unknown to me. And I totally want this to be a success (in the hope that this will be the first, but not the last Pathfinder CRPG), so while I've not decided about the Pledge Level yet, I'll certainly back it up just for that reason alone.

By the way, I've never taken part in any of the big Kickstarter projects, so I just had the surreal experience to be able to watch the supporter count go up while simultaneously watching the video on the page. Was kinda cool to see that happen. ;)

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Laurial wrote:
Thanks for keeping an ongoing list of information about the project, Statagemini!

No problem. I'll put up my next iteration of the List after the next campaign update (which is supposed to be focused on Mechanics).

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

As a side note, I'd encourage any backers looking at this thread to go to the comment section of the kickstarter and post the things you want to see most in stretch goals like; your top 5 races, Classes, and Familiars, or an expanded list of campaign traits available at character creation that will let you be from places like Numeria and Osirion, or the ability to customize the appearance of your kingdom in specific ways that you outline.

A kickstarter is a great way to tell the Dev team what their audience would be interested in, and more than that, It's also a great way to get features you really want to see into the game.

Liberty's Edge

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Stratagemini wrote:
There's been Surprisingly little american Press. No Kotaku, No IGN, no Paizo itself chiming in via a blog or news post. Which honestly is pretty darn weird.

My experience is unless a Kickstarter does exceedingly well on its first day it doesn't get any special press coverage until a week or so into the project.

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Not to be self-referential, but Thainen (who according to the dev comments on Kickstarter is their official reddit spokesperson for now) weighed in on my list here.

The long and the short of it is that "Intellect" is actually "Intelligence" (an error I attribute to the mmorpg.com article here), and the Alignment system is apparently really fleshed out.

Paizo Employee CEO

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Stratagemini wrote:
There's been Surprisingly little american Press. No Kotaku, No IGN, no Paizo itself chiming in via a blog or news post. Which honestly is pretty darn weird.

We will have a number of things rolling out over the next few days. Stay tuned!

-Lisa

Silver Crusade

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Shall do Lisa!

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Right! New List Time!
As Always New Things we know are in Bold.

Regarding the Kickstarter:
-The game will be published in 2018 regardless whether the Kickstarter is successful or not.
-The Kickstarter is Live.
-The kickstarter is an attempt to add "more companions, more depth to the companions, more dungeons and wilderness to explore, … and more new quests and content by famous Pathfinder authors and RPG authors." also more original music, and more voiceover. Basically it exists solely to fund extra cool stuff for the game.
-Mass combat is a late kickstarter stretch goal since it requires a lot of assets.
-To make up for Mass Combat's absence the PCs get to do cool stuff like infiltrate behind enemy lines. Making alliances is expected to give you different army options if they are able to implement mass combat.
- Rest is the first planned Kickstarter stretch Goal. During rest periods, players will be able to send companions out to hunt, thus reducing the need to buy rations, and will be able to set traps and alarms. They'll also be able to assign companions to guard against random attack.
-Both OS X and Linux Releases are Kickstarter stretch Goals.
-Additional Classes from other sourcebooks will be revealed in the Kickstarter and in the form of stretch goals.
-The Initial goal of the Kickstarter is to make the Kingdom system more awesome. See Kingdom section for more details.
-Archetypes are a stretch Goal.
-New Locations are a Stretch goal.
-An epic Dungeon is a stretch goal.
-Custom companions (like in pillars of Eternity) may be a stretch goal if there's interest in it from backers.

Regarding the Base Game:
-The Game includes all the races and Classes from the Core Rulebook. It also includes Alchemist and Inquisitor. The barbarian and Rogue are from Pathfinder Unchained (though the Barbarian's rage may not be), the Monk is as yet undecided.
-The game is Single Player only. Multiplayer and DM tools are being looked at as late game stretch Goals.
-The base game (un-kickstarted) is both mostly complete and includes all 6 AP Modules. The whole story is there with details being Fleshed out by Chris Avellone.
-A capstone is planned possibly taking characters to level 20. We do not know if this is a kickstarter plan, or a base game plan.
-You can build and develop a kingdom of our own, this is in the base game. The Kickstarter will make this better. From people who played the Demo, There are already some cool kingdom events.
-The game will include diplomats from neighbors, including Brevoy and Irrisen (and possibly Mendev?). If you make alliances, that could unlock different buildings for your kingdom.
-The game is run on an engine developed using Unity. It is Isometric in look and feel.
-There will be plenty of side-quests.
-You will be able to be evil, but it will be a cruel and cunning "smart evil" such as talking two enemies into killing each other, rather than just asking for more money as a quest reward.
-The base game includes a forty hour main storyline, and forty to eighty to forty hours of fun side content.
-The game is built on the Unity Engine.
-There will be a lot of new content unique to this version of the Stolen Lands -- just like it would be in any DM's version.
-The game "will have a certain degree of linearity: just like in the table-top game, some challenges will arise, and it would be up to you how you'll tackle them. You can't avoid being the baron(ess), then the king/queen, since it's the premise of the game. However, you'll be free to explore the Stolen Lands, find lots of events unrelated to the main course of events, and choose how to act there. So, you're guaranteed to meet the persons you can see on the covers of the Adventure Path books, but you'll meet them inside a large sandbox."
-Game spans Levels 1 - 20.

Multiplayer and Modding:
-Base game is Single Player only currently,
-Dev comments on the Kickstarter message board hint at the possibility of Multiplayer and DM Tools as as stretch goals. Multiplayer and DM Tools are merely Possible Late Stretch Goals, they are not planned for at this time. The Devs want to focus on making a good Single Player game first and foremost.

Regarding Companions:
-Amiri, the Iconic Barbarian, is a companion with a lot of backstory and events happening around her throughout the game.
-Another Companion is "Jubilost." He a cantankerous gnome, is kind of a jerk, and you can fail to recruit him if you screw up your attempt to help him out. He's also a character from the original AP.
-Companion characters are a mix of New characters, iconic Pathfinder characters, and characters already existing in the AP.
-There will be companion Romance, but it isn't the only relationship option. This Includes LGBTQ romance options.
-Companions can disagree with you, leave you, and even turn on you if they don't like you.
-The story can change considerably depending on your party composition.
-Each companion has an expandable novel style bio that expands as you learn more about them and progress in the game.
-You can take 5 Companions with you in a party at one time.
-There are currently either 10 or 11 companions total

Adherence to and Deviance from Pathfinder Systems:
-Combat format is Real Time with Pause. There's going to be an option for auto-pausing combat at the beginning of each "turn", essentially making it quasi-turn-based. "Turns" last approximately three seconds.
-The character sheet is mostly the same, with the same ability scores and skills (though they lumped together some less-used skills to avoid ranks waste).

-Combat includes: initiative, attacks of opportunity, sneak attacks, Trip, Power Attack (as a toggle), Fighting Defensively, Spontaneous casting of heal spells, and Channeling positive energy.
-Feats include many books beyond core, and include Elemental Spell Focus, and Evocation Spell Focus.
-Perception is a Skill in this game and allows you to spot Loot.
-The game currently includes a comprehensive Alignment meter which plays a significant role in the game. There are a lot of choices that shift your alignment towards one of the nine possible, and your current alignment sometimes affects the way NPC react to you.
-There is No Crafting, instead there's a Royal Artisans system that will make magic items (and even Artifacts) for you.
-you can either auto-select the best party member for a skill check, or manually select who you want to attempt it.
-Difficulty levels are: Core Rules (similar to tabletop Pathfinder but real time, not turn based), adapted rules (less deadly for less experienced, crits deadliness reduced), story mode (really simple combat), Iron man (tougher monsters, just one save that overwrites itself so accept your mistakes), and custom (for example, core rules with reduced crits).

The Kingdom:
-There are playable companions as well as NPCs you can assign to kingdom roles (from Ultimate Campaign), with enough choices for 2-3 options for each role.
-Advisors will give advice based on their personality. this may not be the best advice. You will have to interpret it.
-Expanding The Kingdom is the initial goal of the Kickstarter.
-You can add more than 14 regions to your kingdom.
-There are 300 Kingdom Events and 100 Kingdom Projects.
-The Kickstarter aims to:
--Make the Kingdom's appearance reflect your alignment and choices.
--Let you recruit royal artisans to your kingdom that make you cool stuff (including Artifacts).
--Add more responsiveness to your choices (for example saving a troll family could let you unlock a Troll Bridge building and a Legendary club they make for you, and how you solve problems would unlock different rewards for them).
--Add randomized Kingdom events that make your kingdom different in every playthrough.

Miscellaneous Stuff:
-Owlcat is in close contact with Paizo in developing this. They're also running 4 simultaneous Kingmaker campaigns.
-Character sheet screens are super detailed.
-Tooltips exist which provide Golarion and Pathfinder-based lore.
-Settings will include "Story Mode," "Core Rules," and something similar to Iron Man Mode (which will only have one save).
-Initial languages for Localization are: English, German, French, and Russian. More may be available as Stretch goals based on popular demand.
-Digital Release is planned for GOG and Steam.
-No matter what Race you play you can choose your Gender and Skin tone.
-The premium digital version includes some backer-only in-game items (a special cloak, a helmet and a ring, as well as one unique and quirky spell). The regular digital edition comes with a cloak.
-No news As of yet whether Owlcats (or Kittens) will be a thing in the game. But I hold out hope for a cool Owlkitten pet.

System Requirements:
Minimal system requirements
Video: Intel HD Graphics 3000
CPU: Intel Celeron 1037U @ 1.80GHz
RAM: 4 Gb
OS: Win 7
Resolution: 1366 x 768

Recommended system requirements
Video: ATI Radeon HD 5770/GeForce GTX 960M
CPU: Intel Core i7 CPU 920 @ 2.67GHz
RAM: 8 Gb
OS: Win 7
Resolution: 1920 x 1080

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Lisa Stevens wrote:
Stratagemini wrote:
There's been Surprisingly little american Press. No Kotaku, No IGN, no Paizo itself chiming in via a blog or news post. Which honestly is pretty darn weird.

We will have a number of things rolling out over the next few days. Stay tuned!

-Lisa

While you're here, Did you actually tell Chris Avellone not to "Bleep" [Kingmaker] up? Because that would be awesome.


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I backed PFO and watched it do whatever the hell it did.

That never made me once baulk at backing this:

* Actual Pathfinder game mechanics
* Completely different development team
* Actual gameplay shown and seemingly achievable added material
* Not some strange aberration of MMORPG and guild-building

Now I'm not a fan of isometric/non-rotatable full 360 degree view nor do I have a PC that can actually run this. But I'm backing it anyway.

I look forward to this funding and then seeing some stretch goals. Like Mac support! ;)


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@Strategemini: apart from finding his mien very strange (looked like he just finished a heavy gym workout and the angle he holds his head on is quite arresting) I know nothing about Chris Avellone. Do people fear he does strange things to prior IP's he works on? I saw a comment that he had been dangled as an enticement for a KS, but wasn't really involved. What's the issue?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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People in the Kickstarter comments thread keep talking about Grippli. Grippli are D&D IP, and are not available to us without the OGL, which we are not using. Which is to say, Grippli will 100% for sure NOT be in the game.

Silver Crusade

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Sweeeeeeeet!!!

Edit: This post was in response to Stratagemini's update, not to the loss of the grippli.


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@Rysky: I definitely thought you had an aversion to Grippli there...

Liberty's Edge

Vic Wertz wrote:
People in the Kickstarter comments thread keep talking about Grippli. Grippli are D&D IP, and are not available to us without the OGL, which we are not using. Which is to say, Grippli will 100% for sure NOT be in the game.

Am I correct in thinking Owlbears would fall in the same boat? How are we going to have a Kingmaker game without Owlbears dying on every loading screen?

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
People in the Kickstarter comments thread keep talking about Grippli. Grippli are D&D IP, and are not available to us without the OGL, which we are not using. Which is to say, Grippli will 100% for sure NOT be in the game.

Can we have Definitely-Not-Grippli Treefrog men?

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Actually, Why is Fireball okay but not Grippli? They're both OGL, right?


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Vic Wertz wrote:
People in the Kickstarter comments thread keep talking about Grippli. Grippli are D&D IP, and are not available to us without the OGL, which we are not using. Which is to say, Grippli will 100% for sure NOT be in the game.

Are you able to use "Pathfinder Mechanics"?

I realise the game is yours so you aren't playing by the same rules as anyone else, but I thought that once you'd declared something Open Content things got messy (especially since PF rules are at least partially derived from/dependent on the SRD).


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Stratagemini wrote:
Actually, Why is Fireball okay but not Grippli? They're both OGL, right?

Fireball is one of those things with many different expressions. The exact representation which is open content isn't usable except via the OGL (or some alternate license, I'm guessing). However, a spellcaster shooting a ball of fire is not inherently anyone's property.

Liberty's Edge

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Stratagemini wrote:
Actually, Why is Fireball okay but not Grippli? They're both OGL, right?

Nope. If it is in the SRD it is available to use, but if it isn't it is considered D&D IP and not available (other examples would be Beholders or Mind Flayers). That said, I'm surprised that Grippli showed up in the Advanced Race Guide if they were D&D IP.

Scarab Sages

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Vic, way to break my heart on Grippli :( :(

Oh well, there will hopefully be a couple cool races.


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Steve Geddes wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
People in the Kickstarter comments thread keep talking about Grippli. Grippli are D&D IP, and are not available to us without the OGL, which we are not using. Which is to say, Grippli will 100% for sure NOT be in the game.

Are you able to use "Pathfinder Mechanics"?

I realise the game is yours so you aren't playing by the same rules as anyone else, but I thought that once you'd declared something Open Content things got messy (especially since PF rules are at least partially derived from/dependent on the SRD).

Vic posted some links to clarifications/comments he made in this post

Sovereign Court

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Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
@Strategemini: apart from finding his mien very strange (looked like he just finished a heavy gym workout and the angle he holds his head on is quite arresting) I know nothing about Chris Avellone. Do people fear he does strange things to prior IP's he works on? I saw a comment that he had been dangled as an enticement for a KS, but wasn't really involved. What's the issue?

A bizarre question, since Chris Avellone is arguably one of the best writers in the video game industry right now. (I'd put him in my top 3.) I'd be more inclined to believe that someone had to tell everyone else on the project not to meddle in Chris' writing and screw up the storytelling.


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Well, not really a bizarre question. Perhaps my stabs in the dark were completely off.

I've never heard of him.

I don't have three writers to choose from in the CRPG industry, because I don't know any.

Sovereign Court

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Chris Avellone is probably best known for writing Planescape: Torment. He also did a significant amount of work on the Icewind Dale series, Pillars of Eternity, Alpha Protocol, and Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords. He's known best for deep character interactions and moral conundrums that do not have easy solutions. At this time he freelances as a writer for video games like Prey and the new System Shock, which in itself says something - freelancing as a writer in video games is not exactly the kind of career that you can undertake without significant skills, and many studios don't even have in-house writing positions.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I really wish I had $4,000 USD to add one of my crazy quests to the game. But I'm pretty happy I got in on an Earlybird level.


The same!

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Chris Avellone is also really well known for being super dark and having to be reigned in so he doesn't go too far. The best example of this is probably pillars of Eternity (which is about a plague of soulless babies where people are trying to save them by grafting animal souls onto them but accidentally creating murderous monsters out of them) where several of the Devs said "we had to reign him in because a lot of the stuff he wanted was way too dark." Too dark for a game about soulless baby murder where you can decide "eh, I could use those souls much better than those babies could!" and it's not even the most dark moral choice you can make.


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Here's hoping I win the lottery tonight. I'd do a double Kickstart to get a quest and NPC in the game!

Sovereign Court

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Stratagemini wrote:
Chris Avellone is also really well known for being super dark and having to be reigned in so he doesn't go too far. The best example of this is probably pillars of Eternity (which is about a plague of soulless babies where people are trying to save them by grafting animal souls onto them but accidentally creating murderous monsters out of them) where several of the Devs said "we had to reign him in because a lot of the stuff he wanted was way too dark." Too dark for a game about soulless baby murder where you can decide "eh, I could use those souls much better than those babies could!" and it's not even the most dark moral choice you can make.

That wound up being a conflict between him and Josh Sawyer, and I come down solidly on Chris's side. Chris writes stories about tough subjects, and you (the player) have to live with the price of your decisions. So he doesn't write "do you save the puppy or kick it?" because that's boring and trite. He writes "If you knew you were going to Hell regardless, would you still be a good or bad person?" (PS:T) or "If you had to choose between being an evil monster and destroying the universe, or stopping an evil monster and watching all your friends die, who would you be?" (KotoR2:TSL)

Some people do not like this kind of storytelling in their video games.

Silver Crusade

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I want to save the puppy.

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