Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game

Starfinder


Pathfinder Society


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Tetori vs Wizard


Advice

1 to 50 of 125 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>

Curious question, When optimized to kill each other at level 18 vs 18 who wins this battle?


Tetori.


Wizard. Not even a contest unless this is one of this things where both sides are just dumped 50ft away from each other with no prep, in which case it goes to whoever wins init.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

If the tetori can reach the wizard and wins initiative, then the tetori. If the Wizard is prepared the wizard.


I feel like if the Tetori is able to

A) Know where the wizard is
B) Get close to it without it knowing

The wizard has failed.

Although some clever applications of Contingency could still save them.

Basically its a case of the Tetori getting to the Wizard an arrogant evoker, probably, a forewarned diviner, probably not.


Diviners are easy to deal with. Get an Iron Circlet of Guarded Souls and you are immune to all nondetection effects.

Get high Stealth, which is countered by nothing, and sneak on the wiz.


Echolocation still finds the tetori, the wizard still has contingency, and given other magic the wizard is at least as likely to be able to sneak effectively as the monk.

At high levels magic is the trump card. Try 6th level for a fair match.


I think its wizard.

it might be fair with a wizard with zero items, zero prep other than 24 hour spells and spells prepared, with the tetori starting beside him, AND the wizard asleep. That would be exciting


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I feel like emergency force sphere is kinda OP against a Tetori.

Contingency just pick your preferred flavor.

Also you can't sneak up on someone with foresight. I didn't even think of extended echolocation but it would actually be trivially easy to have that active all day everyday. Obviously sleep in your own Demi Plane.

Also I kinda have a problem with wizard vs threads by virtue of the fact that I don't consider killing a clone and being killed a day later a victory.

I mean how does a monk (or anyone that isn't a 9th caster) deal with the fact their is a clone body of a wizard - somewhere in the world, waiting to be inhabited. Followed by the wizard casting Discern Location (Not blocked by the circlet) and finding and killing the Tetori? And really even an arrogant Evoker should have clones.

EDIT: honestly these sorts of threads are far too nebulous

in what situation does the 18th level monk find the wizard? is he in his tower? if not where is he and why? presumably he has security wherever he is. its actually trivial for a Wizard to make himself unreachable to a Tetori.

vs threads man. I do so hate them xD


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Conjurer teleportation subschool using shift laughs at the tetori monk.


With divination wizards it's less about the spells and more about the Forewarned school power. I once played a level 8 diviner with an initiative of 18, for the duration of the campaign he went second once (and that was against a minor deity). Furthermore a diviner cannot be surprised so stealth is a bit less effective then it might otherwise be.


Tetori's inescapable grasp acts like dimensional anchor, which is why these threads exist I think.

Otherwise contingency DD wins the encounter on its own.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

Except at high levels the diviner goes first, always acts in the surprise round, and if they invest in it, may be immune to being flat-footed. First action is going to be to cast time stop and give themselves time to prepare something nasty.

Tetoris are great at locking down wizards, but a diviner who is prepared is going to win.


Which they would invest in since they're built to kill Tetoris


aside from bab and saves they arent much different from commoner

Grand Lodge

Built and prepared properly against something, a level 18 wizard will win almost every time.


Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

I feel like emergency force sphere is kinda OP against a Tetori.

Contingency just pick your preferred flavor.

Also you can't sneak up on someone with foresight. I didn't even think of extended echolocation but it would actually be trivially easy to have that active all day everyday. Obviously sleep in your own Demi Plane.

Also I kinda have a problem with wizard vs threads by virtue of the fact that I don't consider killing a clone and being killed a day later a victory.

I mean how does a monk (or anyone that isn't a 9th caster) deal with the fact their is a clone body of a wizard - somewhere in the world, waiting to be inhabited. Followed by the wizard casting Discern Location (Not blocked by the circlet) and finding and killing the Tetori? And really even an arrogant Evoker should have clones.

EDIT: honestly these sorts of threads are far too nebulous

in what situation does the 18th level monk find the wizard? is he in his tower? if not where is he and why? presumably he has security wherever he is. its actually trivial for a Wizard to make himself unreachable to a Tetori.

vs threads man. I do so hate them xD

In a gladiator areana 100ft away from each other

Silver Crusade

Atalius wrote:
In a gladiator areana 100ft away from each other

Diviner Wizard.


I thought Tetori was specifically built to be a caster killer.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

It is a caster killer - at reasonable levels. Level 18 is not reasonable.

Silver Crusade

Atalius wrote:
Curious question, When optimized to kill each other at level 18 vs 18 who wins this battle?

Bruno, a handsome and beautiful Tetori, knows that a high level Diviner Wizard optimized to kill Bruno in an arena fight will kill Bruno in an arena fight.

This more a reflection of quadratic casters/linear martials and also, in this case, a Tier 1 class vs Tier 4 class.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I fail to see how the tetori would even kill the wizard to begin with. By 18th level why would a wizard even be in their own body? They are almost certainly possessing some other creature's body. Why use your own when you can instead use a solar's. Or heck make a simulacrum of Cthulhu and possess that.

Good luck monk. I see your good grappling and raise a (half) Demigod.

And if you happen to kill the possessed creature, you have still done no harm to the wizard.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

If you want to kill a even moderately prepared 18th level wizard, you probably need to be a 9/9 caster yourself. You somehow need to trap their soul to prevent them from coming back.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

As an aside, Bruno, I really like your character. I just looked him over :)

Silver Crusade

MichaelCullen wrote:
As an aside, Bruno, I really like your character. I just looked him over :)

Bruno thank you. Bruno has not updated sheet since Final Embrace errata, but Bruno pretty much retired to teaching Gym class at Acadamae.


How many restrictions do you think need to be placed on the wizard to give the tetori a decent chance?

Obvious ones include actually being there (No Possessing, Astral Projecting, etc) or having backup selves (No Clone, Akashic Form scrolls, Word of Recall, Contingencies that warp you to a safe zone, etc) thus making the target actually the target. Next, probably should assume wizard and tetori are on the same plane, wizard doesn't have any bound servants, constructs, undead, or other minions to protect him/her, and isn't in a personal fortress or other personally safeguarded terrain.

Or maybe we should look into the steps the wizard would need to outgrapple the tetori. You know, to make it more interesting.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

IMPORTANT QUESTION: AM TETORI HAVING SIX BARBARIAN LEVELS?


Paradozen wrote:

How many restrictions do you think need to be placed on the wizard to give the tetori a decent chance?

Obvious ones include actually being there (No Possessing, Astral Projecting, etc) or having backup selves (No Clone, Akashic Form scrolls, Word of Recall, Contingencies that warp you to a safe zone, etc) thus making the target actually the target. Next, probably should assume wizard and tetori are on the same plane, wizard doesn't have any bound servants, constructs, undead, or other minions to protect him/her, and isn't in a personal fortress or other personally safeguarded terrain.

Or maybe we should look into the steps the wizard would need to outgrapple the tetori. You know, to make it more interesting.

Probably have to ban wish, simulacrum, and limited wish. I like tetori starts beside sleeping wizard, and the wizard has no items.

TBH the wizard could lose that fight, not because tetoris are great, but magic items are pretty good and the tetori could have a bunch of cool scrolls or something


Ring of Freedom of Movement...

...And that's all, folks.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Tetoris don't care about FoM.


Trinam wrote:
Tetoris don't care about FoM.

At 9th level, a tetori can spend 1 point from his ki pool to suppress his opponents’ freedom of movement and magical bonuses to Escape Artist or on checks to escape a grapple...

You are right. I had missed that part.


The wizard because the wizard will win initiative and then the tetori will never find him or get to him.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

If built to win that fight then the wizard will have somewhere in the region of +35 to initiative, cast prismatic sphere ... I'm pretty sure they've won at that point.

EDIT: if they have 6 levels of barb then their grapple doesn't do dimensional anchor at which point it's a wash.

To be clear I don't particularly like or want wizards to win but this feels like a case of a really really good swimmer trying to dive better than a fish.


without any items? the wizard, as he is over land flying = out of the reach of the tetori.
with items? it depends...
a ring of spell storing with teleport will let the wizard get out.
a ring of spell storing in the hands of the monk = monk, antimgic field and get in = win.


Maybe if the wizard stops to monologue...


Aroden's Spellbane laughs at your antimagic field.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

If built to win that fight then the wizard will have somewhere in the region of +35 to initiative, cast prismatic sphere ... I'm pretty sure they've won at that point.

EDIT: if they have 6 levels of barb then their grapple doesn't do dimensional anchor at which point it's a wash.

To be clear I don't particularly like or want wizards to win but this feels like a case of a really really good swimmer trying to dive better than a fish.

If the wizard wants there is little reason to have his initiative below +60. 35 is chump change. If he really wants it should be around 100.


Secret Wizard wrote:

Diviners are easy to deal with. Get an Iron Circlet of Guarded Souls and you are immune to all nondetection effects.

Get high Stealth, which is countered by nothing, and sneak on the wiz.

The problem is divination wizards always get to go in the surprise round and get to add their class level to their initiative rolls.

Even if you don't know whats happening, you have a sort of spidey sense that tells you something is wrong. If the tetori doesn't win initiative, the wizard teleports away.

Basically, the tetori only wins if he can win initiative no matter the circumstances.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

With foresight the wizard will ever be surprised or flatfooted. With some choice spells he will ensure he goes first (he will proabably double the tetori's initiative).

The he can cast a heightened acid spash to get rid of any spell turning.

Then a quickened limited wish (geas) for a no save auto win.

He can throw in some dweomer's essence to worry a lot less about SR.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Claxon wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:

Diviners are easy to deal with. Get an Iron Circlet of Guarded Souls and you are immune to all nondetection effects.

Get high Stealth, which is countered by nothing, and sneak on the wiz.

The problem is divination wizards always get to go in the surprise round and get to add their class level to their initiative rolls.

Even if you don't know whats happening, you have a sort of spidey sense that tells you something is wrong. If the tetori doesn't win initiative, the wizard teleports away.

Basically, the tetori only wins if he can win initiative no matter the circumstances.

Between Moment of Prescience and a scroll of glimpse of the Akashic, there is +34 right there. Add heightened awarenes for another +4. A +1 dueling training (improved init) cestus adds 8 more. The diviner adds half his level so +9. Add a compsognatus familiar and reactionary and we are at +61 without really trying to hard. (Or even adding dex).

It's doubtful that the tetori will get anywhere near that.


Yes, because every 18th level wizard has burned nearly a third of their wbl on a greater quickened metamagic rod. Nevermind that, per our good friend the SRD, PCs that are built after 1st level should spend no more than 25% of their wealth on weapons, 25% on armor and protective devices, 25% on other magic items, 15% on disposable items like potions, scrolls, and wands, and 10% on ordinary gear and coins. (Citation here)

Not to mention then you run into the single most problematic thing on earth wrt your geas 'autowin.'

You have to word it, and hope the opponent doesn't outlawyer you.

It's a good plan, but no plan survives contact with the enemy.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

A quickening diamond is only 8,000. Add in the 1,500 for the material component for limited wish and the 500 for dweomer's essence rounds you out at 10k.
Provided the wizard get the terori's gear he stands to make quite a profit.

If a level 18 wizard lacks the intelligence to come up with a fool proof geas, the he aught to turn in his wizard card.


No geas is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Perhaps :)


Trinam wrote:

Yes, because every 18th level wizard has burned nearly a third of their wbl on a greater quickened metamagic rod. Nevermind that, per our good friend the SRD, PCs that are built after 1st level should spend no more than 25% of their wealth on weapons, 25% on armor and protective devices, 25% on other magic items, 15% on disposable items like potions, scrolls, and wands, and 10% on ordinary gear and coins. (Citation here)

Not to mention then you run into the single most problematic thing on earth wrt your geas 'autowin.'

You have to word it, and hope the opponent doesn't outlawyer you.

It's a good plan, but no plan survives contact with the enemy.

...Do you reasonably expect a wizard to spend 25% of his wealth on weapons, and another 25% on armor? Be reasonable. Those are recommended percentages and only make sense for traditional martials. Hell Your tetori won't be built that way either.

I mean did you read the whole paragraph it specifically calls out full arcane casters as an exception.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

wait wait wait I can do better.

No plan is foolproof to a sufficiently talented Fool, so before some Magician or Priestess trying to be Empress or Emperor or Heirophant or whatever position comes along in a campaign structure that's at the top, they should consult with their Lovers to make sure their Chariot is intact and has the Strength it'll need to deal with the Hermit.

Yes, that Hermit, the monk, who has been watching Wheel of Fortune for decades so that he can properly define the ABCs of Justice. If you mess with him, you're going to wind up Hanged, Man. We're talking pure Death, without the Temperance of mercy. You'll see the Devil by the time he's done dropkicking you off the top of his Tower so hard you'll see Stars for the next millenia. The Tetori could grapple a Moon and drop it onto your face so hard you'll go through the planet and land in the Sun.

So use your best Judgment: do you really want to bet the World that you'll win initiative?


Hogeyhead wrote:

...Do you reasonably expect a wizard to spend 25% of his wealth on weapons, and another 25% on armor? Be reasonable. Those are recommended percentages and only make sense for traditional martials. Hell Your tetori won't be built that way either.

Clearly someone isn't familiar with the cost of an amulet of mighty fists. :D :D :D


Trinam wrote:

wait wait wait I can do better.

No plan is foolproof to a sufficiently talented Fool, so before some Magician or Priestess trying to be Empress or Emperor or Heirophant or whatever position comes along in a campaign structure that's at the top, they should consult with their Lovers to make sure their Chariot is intact and has the Strength it'll need to deal with the Hermit.

Yes, that Hermit, the monk, who has been watching Wheel of Fortune for decades so that he can properly define the ABCs of Justice. If you mess with him, you're going to wind up Hanged, Man. We're talking pure Death, without the Temperance of mercy. You'll see the Devil by the time he's done dropkicking you off the top of his Tower so hard you'll see Stars for the next millenia. The Tetori could grapple a Moon and drop it onto your face so hard you'll go through the planet and land in the Sun.

So use your best Judgment: do you really want to bet the World that you'll win initiative?

I'm assuming this is an attempt at humor yes? An honest question I can't tell


Trinam wrote:
Hogeyhead wrote:

...Do you reasonably expect a wizard to spend 25% of his wealth on weapons, and another 25% on armor? Be reasonable. Those are recommended percentages and only make sense for traditional martials. Hell Your tetori won't be built that way either.

Clearly someone isn't familiar with the cost of an amulet of mighty fists. :D :D :D

Not a weapon...


Hogeyhead wrote:
Trinam wrote:

wait wait wait I can do better.

No plan is foolproof to a sufficiently talented Fool, so before some Magician or Priestess trying to be Empress or Emperor or Heirophant or whatever position comes along in a campaign structure that's at the top, they should consult with their Lovers to make sure their Chariot is intact and has the Strength it'll need to deal with the Hermit.

Yes, that Hermit, the monk, who has been watching Wheel of Fortune for decades so that he can properly define the ABCs of Justice. If you mess with him, you're going to wind up Hanged, Man. We're talking pure Death, without the Temperance of mercy. You'll see the Devil by the time he's done dropkicking you off the top of his Tower so hard you'll see Stars for the next millenia. The Tetori could grapple a Moon and drop it onto your face so hard you'll go through the planet and land in the Sun.

So use your best Judgment: do you really want to bet the World that you'll win initiative?

I'm assuming this is an attempt at humor yes? An honest question I can't tell

Its Trinam telling a rough equivocation of the Fool's Story in the Major Arcana of Tarot; mainly just using the names and the order they appear in.

1 to 50 of 125 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / Advice / Tetori vs Wizard All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002-2017 Paizo Inc.® | Privacy Policy | Contact Us
Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours, Monday through Friday, 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM Pacific time.

Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, Starfinder, the Starfinder logo, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc. The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Legends, Pathfinder Online, Starfinder Adventure Path, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.