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Fateless(?) Characters


Here's an idea that I've been working on:

For most people, their fate is an immutable part of their lives, but some lucky few discover the errors of the reality that they live in, unshackling them from their fates and allows them to pursue more of their aspirations simultaneously. However, this is also a curse, as without their fate to contain them, as their mind, body, and soul struggle to retain their form and to contain the increased level of power coursing through them.

Building a Fateless Character:
When making a new fateless character, choose five classes. At no point may you multiclass out of these five classes, including to take a prestige class. You have levels in the classes you picked at creation, and you gain ranks in Fateless, reflecting the level of power your mind, body, and soul have grown to hold on a constant basis. Your Fateless rank is equal to the average level of your classes. The following uses gestalt rules, but progresses using your Fateless rank as the effective level: Hit Die, BAB, Saving Throws, Class Skills, Ability Score Increases, and Ranks per Level. In addition, you use the best progression of spells per day among your classes and use the spellcasting tied to it to determine bonus spells per day. Your spells per day also progresses using your Fateless rank as the effective level.

Switching Classes:
A Fateless Character can only have one class active at a time as having multiple classes active at once erases them from reality as their divergent nature tears them into a fine mist. Switching classes takes 1 minute of concentration, and any effect that can disrupt a spell can disrupt this ability, forcing a concentration check(use your Will save to make such checks).

Class Feature Slots:
As a Fateless character learns to better channel their power, they discover tricks to safely blend their abilities together. With their first Fateless rank, they gain a slot that they can use to store a class feature from an inactive class, allowing use of that feature. Acceptable class features are:features presented in the special column, feats, and the ability to cast spells granted from that class. Features stored using these slots functions using the Fateless rank or the level of the class the features originate from when determining prerequisites and effects, whichever is worse. They may switch out features any time they switch classes.
At 4th rank, and every 2 ranks thereafter, the Fateless character gains another slot (to a maximum of 10 slots at 20th rank). A Fateless character is limited to using up to 3 features from any given inactive class.

Any feedback and questions are welcome.

I'm also open to any feat suggestions.

Oh, yeah. I forgot to mention that your classes level up using the standard medium progression. A very long campaign, but I think that it'll be worth it.

I don't understand what this is.

It's the third thread he's made for his multiple class idea

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Yes, but this one seems to be the most developed.
There is nothing wrong with posting new threads, especially as ideas solidify.

I actually kind of like the idea. It's a twist on gestalt. You don't get all the benifits of gestalt, but you do get a ton of flexibility. Presumably you are stuck with the same ability scores and gear, so you really need to work on synergies. It's kind of cool.

MichaelCullen wrote:

Yes, but this one seems to be the most developed.

There is nothing wrong with posting new threads, especially as ideas solidify.

I actually kind of like the idea. It's a twist on gestalt. You don't get all the benifits of gestalt, but you do get a ton of flexibility. Presumably you are stuck with the same ability scores and gear, so you really need to work on synergies. It's kind of cool.

Thank you, MichaelCullen.

I didn't mean to offend I was just answering his question

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Odd, I thought I already commented on this. Did you delete the old thread and make this one?

If I understand correctly, it's like an overly complicated gestalt where you only have one class's abilities active at any time and you must switch classes by concentrating for 1 minute. Then you let them keep one class feature from a class that's not in use.

I have a big problem with the class feature slot mechanics. Not all class features are equal, and classes tend to use them as part of a larger package. Taking such class features out of context might mean the feature is too powerful, too weak, or completely usable. I'd just nix this as it's too fiddly to deal with.

I'm not sure how I feel about the class switching thing. You get to keep the best statistics of all five classes at all times, so the switching mechanic might be mostly meaningless in certain circumstances. The fact you get five classes means that all PCs will likely end up as Full BAB characters with a d10 or d12 HD and three good saves...because...why not?

The concentration check is wrong. If it uses a Will saving bonus, then it's not a concentration check as the math is very different. I also begs the question of what the DC is considering that this is not a spell. Just say that it's a Will saving throw and give a DC for it.

Switching classes will be a lot of work, so its likely that players will pick and choose the best combo and stick with it. They might swap something out if a situation arises, but then will go back to the previous combo.

Cyrad, I came up with the feature slots to help pad the inevitable glass jaw has specialists would develop, and to be a reward for bearing with an incredibly slow progression. I also believe that Fateless Characters should be able to switch in combat, however unwieldy it is, but they should risk distraction from the same conditions that distracts spellcasters, so the will save DCs should be somewhat similar to the concentration check DCs.

Ciaran Barnes, I was considering feats that could shorten the time required, but it should still disallow shenanigans. I'm also giving cheat sheets to my players, giving summaries of what features do for quick reference. Hopefully that will ease your concerns

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

If the slow progression is a problem, then find some way to deal with it. The feature slot thing doesn't work.

What do you mean by characters being able to switch classes in combat? It takes 1 minute to switch classes. Combats seldom last longer than 4 rounds. Since it can be interrupted, why would you ever switch classes in the middle of combat?

You can't use concentration check DCs because those DCs are based on spell level. You're not casting a spell. Again, you can't use the concentration check mechanic because the math is totally different. The math for Will saving throw bonuses is not the same as concentration check bonuses, just as the math for concentration check DCs is not the same as Will saving throw DCs. You can't just swap two totally unrelated numbers and hope the math works out -- that's not how game design works. What you need to do is call it a Will saving throw and invent your own DCs.

I understand you're trying to create something similar to the Strange RPG, but overall, this system is really fiddly and broken.

I think the feature slot system could be made less fiddly if it was modeled after this system. I've played this game and know that the characters start with 4 accessories and 3 slots, if that helps.

How about having switching classes take a full round action, but when doing this, all effects currently affecting the character progresses as though a minute passed. No Will saves.

It took me way to long to get my head around this.
If I actually do get it, the intent is to build a character version of Niven's Soft Weapon.
Essentially, a high enough level Fateless alters and focuses its powers to deal with whatever task is at hand. The ultimate infiltrators. Maybe Faceless would be a more evocative name.

Yeah, that would be the desired result. How about the Omnisoul?

Fateless might be a good name for characters that are immune to effects involving fate, Faceless should be good for masters of disguise, and Omnisoul is good if characters can change some properties of their soul. I just thought of (Multiple)-soul. I was going to go with Poly-, but that didn't have a good ring.

Protean Soul?

If the characters are all chaotic.

Could a non-chaotic character survive the mind wrenching effects of changing themselves to the level you are positing as a matter of course?

BTW protean is a real word.

tending or able to change frequently or easily.
"it is difficult to comprehend the whole of this protean subject"
synonyms: ever-changing, variable, changeable, mutable, kaleidoscopic, inconstant, inconsistent, unstable, shifting, unsettled, fluctuating, fluid, wavering, vacillating, mercurial, volatile; technicallabile
"the protean nature of mental disorders"
able to do many different things; versatile.
"Shostakovich was a remarkably protean composer, one at home in a wide range of styles"
synonyms: versatile, adaptable, flexible, all-around, multifaceted, multitalented, many-sided
"a remarkably protean composer"

Ok, I'm swayed.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Have you looked at the Strange RPG? It might be worth looking at for inspiration. It's a game about exploring alternate realities that each cause your character to change. You might go to the reality of super science and end up as a cyborg. Or go to the realm of high fantasy and end up as a divine jackal creature.

I still believe you're better served finding another way to execute this flavor without having to resort to having characters completely change their class.

I finally got the Stange corebook. What I'm seeing is three types, or chassis with augmentation options, descriptors, or universal modifications, and foci, or interchangeable yet flavorful scaling mods. I think I just might find a way to pull it off.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

While "types" are like classes, foci are more like a static feat chain that gives you flavorful abilities and additional background. There's foci for being good with guns, being a cyborg, being a shapechanger, being a pyromancer, and even foci for being a totally different race.

The Strange handles differing identities across realities by having your focus change when you enter a new reality.

You might be able to do something similar with Pathfinder. The big problem with using classes is that classes are big complicated affairs.

What you could do is use variant multiclassing rules. You could give every character a variant multiclass that does not cost any feats. Then they can switch out that multiclass. This way, players don't have to do as much book keeping and resort to gestalt rules and such. You could take it a step further and let their race swap as well when they do so.

Let's start with the chassis. I think that there should be three of them, they never get switched out, and shouldn't have any class features.

Actually, I think it should be done in a different thread. How do you delete a thread?

Just start a new one, Lazaryus.
This one will fade away in time, and will still be available to you as an idea source.

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