Dream Discipline Psychic Waking Dream

[Mike Moreau]

In our current game we are about to turn level 13. My dream discipline psychic is going to attain the Waking Dream ability. The ability reads as follows:

At 13th level, as a standard action, you can take control of the body of a sleeping creature within 30 feet for 1 hour per level.

This ability functions like magic jar, except that your soul travels directly into the sleeping target with no receptacle necessary and the target creature’s consciousness remains dreaming and unaware of its body’s actions.

When waking dream ends or the host body is destroyed, you immediately wake up in your body regardless of the distance from the host body, provided your body hasn’t been destroyed. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Charisma bonus. Creatures that don’t dream are immune to this effect.

My question: Does the target of waking dream get a save? I ask this for a 2 reasons.

1) I understand that it says "functions like magic jar" and magic jar requires a save. However, the ability received at level 5 "Mind Heist" functions like detect thoughts, which also requires a save however the ability description still specifically calls out that it requires a save. The ability description for waking dream mentions no such thing.

2) If this requires a save, what is the point of this ability. It is almost identical in all ways to the spell Possession with the exception that I can cast Possession at level 10, possession has a longer range, possession works on creatures who don't dream and doesn't require the target to be asleep. If this ability requires a save, it is in every way worse than the spell possession and there is really no point to this ability.

[Chromantic Durgon <3]

Well can sleeping people make will saves? Or do they count as helpless...

[Garbage-Tier Waifu]

It functions as magic jar, so yes, utilizing your discipline DC for the save.

The reason you have the ability is because you can use it technically at will. You also don't use up a spell slot to activate, nor a spell known.

[derpdidruid]

I thought that sleeping targets where always considered willing?

[Chromantic Durgon <3]

I'm thinking this too but I'm not certain

[Garbage-Tier Waifu]

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

Well can sleeping people make will saves? Or do they count as helpless...

Given the recent Create Pit FAQ (or more accurately, the FAQ about when you can save), you are entitled to a save no matter what. In the create pit situation, even a paralysed character can make a save. You are always entitled to a save against effects that allow them, and nothing can prevent you from making one (though you can choose to automatically fail a save if you wish).

[Chromantic Durgon <3]

These FAQs make no sense to me xD
How does a sleeping person dodge a fireball xD

[Garbage-Tier Waifu]

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

These FAQs make no sense to me xD

How does a sleeping person dodge a fireball xD

I believe as the FAQ puts it: Sheer luck!

But most important is that it ensures you can't cheat out a creature from making a save at all. Similarly, if a creature is paralysed, how does it make that same save? The reason is because the system is being far on that creature, who already takes a penalty against the effect, by not cheating them out of their save despite their immobilised condition.

[Azten]

They turned over at the last second?