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Killing the Tarrasque by the Books


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

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Many thought-experiment-threads have popped up on hypothetical ways to kill the Tarrasque, using things like starvation, suffocation, demiplanes, etc. Thanks to Bestiary 6, though, we now have a totally legit, non-mythic, non-third-party, non-setting-specific, cut-and-dry way to kill this sob!

Introducing the Memitim Psychopomp (the link is to the entry from the Inner Sea Bestiary because the Bestiary 6 entry hasn't been added yet, but the ability functions the same as in Bestiary 6)!

Terminal Aura (Su) wrote:
Every round, any creature within 50 feet of a memitim that has –1 or fewer hit points and is stable must succeed at a DC 23 Will saving throw or be affected by the spell bleed. Any dying creature within this range does not receive a Constitution check to stabilize, but can be healed as normal—though it can be affected by bleed in subsequent rounds if not restored to 0 or more hit points. Any creatures with fast healing or regeneration must succeed at a DC 23 Will save every round or that ability does not function for 1 round. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Boom. Mr. Tarrasque needs to roll an 11 or higher on his Will save each round, or his Regeneration is turned off for 1 round. As long as he's at -35HP or lower during this time, this is a legal, by-the-books death. Having 16HD, the Memitim is a fine candidate for Greater Planar Ally/Binding. Being a full 10CR under the Tarrasque, she'll wanna stay in the back for the majority of the fight, but with a few defensive buffs, she shouldn't have any problems being within 50' for a round or two, while we all sit back and wait for the Tarrasque to roll a 10 or lower on his Will save. End. Of. Worm.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

The Tarrasque is immune to bleed effects though.


No.


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Rysky wrote:
The Tarrasque is immune to bleed effects though.

It's not the bleed that kills it though, it's the deactivation of its regeneration.

I'm more concerned by: "Regeneration (Ex) No form of attack can suppress the tarrasque's regeneration—it regenerates even if disintegrated or slain by a death effect. "

Seems pretty cut and dry, here.


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I have a 6 inch base pawn I made for the Tarrasque, and on the base I wrote "Thou Hath Angered the GM!"

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber

That won't keep it dead. After that one round, its regeneration kicks back in and it comes back.

Killing the tarrasque is easy. Keeping it dead is the problem.


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TriOmegaZero wrote:

That won't keep it dead. After that one round, its regeneration kicks back in and it comes back.

Killing the tarrasque is easy. Keeping it dead is the problem.

Regeneration Universal Monster Rule wrote:
A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Creatures with regeneration heal damage at a fixed rate, as with fast healing, but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning (although creatures with regeneration still fall unconscious when their hit points are below 0). Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, cause a creature’s regeneration to stop functioning on the round following the attack. During this round, the creature does not heal any damage and can die normally. The creature’s descriptive text describes the types of damage that cause the regeneration to cease functioning.

So, a Memitim's Terminal Aura turns off the Tarrasque's Regeneration for 1 round. During that time, its Regeneration is not functioning. By the rules of the ability, it can be killed during this time.

Tarrasque's Regeneration entry wrote:
No form of attack can suppress the tarrasque's regeneration—it regenerates even if disintegrated or slain by a death effect. If the tarrasque fails a save against an effect that would kill it instantly, it rises from death 3 rounds later with 1 hit point if no further damage is inflicted upon its remains. It can be banished or otherwise transported as a means to save a region, but the method to truly kill it has yet to be discovered.

Nowhere in this entry does it state that if the Tarrasque is considered dead, does the Regeneration turn back on, and bring it back to life. Just like with a Troll's standard Regeneration, if you damage it with fire, the Regeneration turns off for 1 round. If it dies during that round, its Regeneration doesn't turn back on and bring it back to life.

@WatersLethe: That is referring to the standard Regeneration rules, where a form of attack (such as Fire, Adamantium, Epic, etc.) is supposed to be linked the that specific creature's Regeneration, and is what turns the ability off. In my op's example, the method of death isn't disintegration or a death effect, it's HP damage. The only thing keeping the Tarrasque unkillable via HP damage is its (until now) insurmountable Regeneration, via the standard Regeneration rules, but now there is a way to turn it off, and via those same Regeneration rules, HP damage will kill it.

Grand Lodge

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Tarrasque's Regeneration entry wrote:
No form of attack can suppress the tarrasque's regeneration

Considering that the aura forces a will save I'd certainly consider it an attack. Much in the same way that casting a spell that requires a save breaks invisibility due to it being an attack.


The Memitim's terminal aura suppresses Regeneration and Fast Healing. The Tarrasque's Regeneration specifically cannot be suppressed by anything.

Pretty sure that makes it immune to the terminal aura. Standard regeneration can be suppressed, but the Tarrasque has a significantly more powerful level of regeneration, granted by a god, that I would be willing to bet can't be suppressed by some mere petty outsider.


If the creature can regenerate from being disintegrated, I don't think the Pyschopomp's ability is going to turn off the regeneration, either.


But his Regeneration (Ex) cannot be suppressed and or be stopped from functioning as per the ability description....

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber
Cuup wrote:
Tarrasque's Regeneration entry wrote:
No form of attack can suppress the tarrasque's regeneration—it regenerates even if disintegrated or slain by a death effect. If the tarrasque fails a save against an effect that would kill it instantly, it rises from death 3 rounds later with 1 hit point if no further damage is inflicted upon its remains. It can be banished or otherwise transported as a means to save a region, but the method to truly kill it has yet to be discovered.
Nowhere in this entry does it state that if the Tarrasque is considered dead, does the Regeneration turn back on, and bring it back to life.

See bold. You can kill it, but you can't keep it dead without GM fiat.


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Having an Aura up wouldn't break invisibility. It's not an attack.

TriOmegaZero wrote:
...but the method has yet to be discovered...

Printed in Bestiary 1 in 2011, Bestiary 6 had indeed not yet been discovered.


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You can, however, send it off into space. Quite easily, too. Cut something off, and fling it out there somehow, then disintegrate the rest of the corpse.

Grand Lodge

Can you quote anything stating that an aura that causes negative effects is not an attack?


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Just use trap the Soul. It doesn't kill it, but it might as well.


Cuup wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
...but the method has yet to be discovered...
Printed in Bestiary 1 in 2011, Bestiary 6 had indeed not yet been discovered.

That is irrelevant. Book printing dates are not an acceptable method of bypassing the Tarrasque's complete immunity to suppression of its regeneration.

The end result is that gods (and in this case the spawn of a god) cannot be killed in Pathfinder. The Tarrasque is specifically immune to all attempts to suppress its regenerative abilities. This includes the abilities of significantly weaker creatures.

Short of GM fiat, you cannot kill the Tarrasque by design.


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Jurassic Pratt wrote:
Can you quote anything stating that an aura that causes negative effects is not an attack?

No. Unfortunately, "Aura" isn't classified as a single type of ability, but instead, there are unique entries in any "Monster Abilities" index for each kind of Aura, so tehre are no universal "Aura Rules", and none of those specific entries address anything about Invisibility, or if the aura itself is considered an "attack". I'm actually a bit surprised by this, considering so many creatures with auras have the ability to be invisible.

I suppose the best case I have against this argument is the fact that you probably couldn't quote anything stating the contrary. In the meantime, I take a look at the Bone Devil. Invisibility is definitely a favored tactic, as it has Quickened Invisibility as a 3/day SLA, and it mentions its want to use the tactic in its description. The Bone Devil also has a Fear Aura (I think we can agree that if a Fear Aura is considered an "attack", then so is Terminal Aura, and vice-versa.). The Bone Devil's description doesn't mention anything about needing to keep its aura turned off while it's Invisible. I know, not anything definitive, but like I said, that's the best I can find right now.

@Haskol: Heh, that was a joke.


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Look, we can keep having this back and forth about whether or not the Tarrasque's regeneration is suppressed.

But ultimately the majority here don't agree with your interpretation and we aren't buying it.

No one thinks this is a cute, funny, or particularly interesting interpretation. It's all just trying to get around some wording to make your idea work.

There's no point in arguing about this because there isn't really a convincing argument to be had either way.


For me personally, "No form of attack", and "nothing" are two very different things. The Tarrasque's Regeneration entry doesn't say that nothing can turn off its Regeneration; it does say that no form of attack can turn it off. The Memitim Psychopomp's whole thing is "the transition from life to death to life", and its Terminal aura functions to assist it in its goals of transitioning creatures that have pesky regeneration from life to death. Making things dead is what it does. That's its specialty. And unless an FAQ or Dev steps in to say that "auras with negative effects count as a form of attack", the language in the Terminus Aura, the universal Regeneration rule, and the Tarrasque's own Regeneration entry all point to this as possible, even if that wasn't the intention of the writers.


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Claxon wrote:

Look, we can keep having this back and forth about whether or not the Tarrasque's regeneration is suppressed.

But ultimately the majority here don't agree with your interpretation and we aren't buying it.

No one thinks this is a cute, funny, or particularly interesting interpretation. It's all just trying to get around some wording to make your idea work.

There's no point in arguing about this because there isn't really a convincing argument to be had either way.

Sorry, Claxon, here's the keys back to your forums.

Shadow Lodge

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Cuup wrote:
Sorry, Claxon, here's the keys back to your forums.

Thanks, I've been looking for those.

Grand Lodge

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We've really got to stop just leaving those lying around...

The Exchange

Cuup wrote:
For me personally, "No form of attack", and "nothing" are two very different things. The Tarrasque's Regeneration entry doesn't say that nothing can turn off its Regeneration; it does say that no form of attack can turn it off. The Memitim Psychopomp's whole thing is "the transition from life to death to life", and its Terminal aura functions to assist it in its goals of transitioning creatures that have pesky regeneration from life to death. Making things dead is what it does. That's its specialty. And unless an FAQ or Dev steps in to say that "auras with negative effects count as a form of attack", the language in the Terminus Aura, the universal Regeneration rule, and the Tarrasque's own Regeneration entry all point to this as possible, even if that wasn't the intention of the writers.

So Let's assume that the aura is NOT an attack.

Then let's assume that the Regeneration IS stopped.
Finally let's assume that you have the tarrasque at -500hp and it it again for a 100dmg coup de grac just for good measure.

So We now assume you have successfully killed the tarrasque.
HOORAY!!!! Lets all go to Disney World!

THEN when you turn and walk away

No form of attack can suppress the tarrasque's regeneration—it regenerates even if disintegrated or slain by a death effect. If the tarrasque fails a save against an effect that would kill it instantly, it rises from death 3 rounds later with 1 hit point if no further damage is inflicted upon its remains. It can be banished or otherwise transported as a means to save a region, but the method to truly kill it has yet to be discovered.

The tarrasque corpse gets outside of the range of the Terminal Aura, and Voila, Regeneration kicks in, and it again starts to heal.

Think about it, Disintegrate and Death Effects are listed as EXAMPLES of what a tarrasque is capable of recovering from. They are not specific things that it's ONLY able to recover from those but not normal physical damage, or a coup de grac. So no matter how much damage you do to it, sooner or later it comes back to life.


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The real issue here is "General vs Specific" and "Order of Opperations".
In Pathfinder the general rules form the baseline and then specific cases override the general rules. (think of a dragons bite attack. General rules state that creatures with multiple attacks deal 1x Str on their attacks, but the dragon always deals 1-1/2 Str damage)
So if you have 2 rules that both override the baseline then which one comes first?
You could read it as:
Regeneration -> Tarrasque Regeneration, -> Psychopomp Terminal Aura.
In which case Regeneration functions -> Tarrasque Regeneration cannot normaly be supressed -> but Psychopomp turns it off.
Tarrasque=General, Psychopomp=Specific

Or:
Regeneration -> Psychopomp Terminal Aura -> Tarraspuire Regeneration.
In which case Regeneration Functions, -> Psychopomp turns it off, -> but Tarrasque cannot be supressed.
Psychopomp=General, Tarrasque=Specific

As you can see, both conclusions can be reached logically so any attempt to convince someone that their viewpoint is wrong is technically false, since both answers could be technically true.
:p

Pathfinder is just too big and too complex to avoid these kinds of conflicts.

Dark Archive

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Ya know, these types of conversation makes me realize that "No man can kill me" "I am no man" isn't prophecy twist, its rules argument :D


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CorvusMask wrote:
Ya know, these types of conversation makes me realize that "No man can kill me" "I am no man" isn't prophecy twist, its rules argument :D

It's kinda nice when you can have rules work as a prophecy twist.

I've always been fond of the thing with magical rules in Gargoyles; there's no such thing as an unbreakable, unconditional curse. You can set some damn ridiculous conditions like "you will be stone until my castle rises above the clouds" but if you put a curse on someone there has to be a condition under which it will break.


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Alex Louis Armstrong wrote:

The real issue here is "General vs Specific" and "Order of Opperations".

In Pathfinder the general rules form the baseline and then specific cases override the general rules. (think of a dragons bite attack. General rules state that creatures with multiple attacks deal 1x Str on their attacks, but the dragon always deals 1-1/2 Str damage)
So if you have 2 rules that both override the baseline then which one comes first?
You could read it as:
Regeneration -> Tarrasque Regeneration, -> Psychopomp Terminal Aura.
In which case Regeneration functions -> Tarrasque Regeneration cannot normaly be supressed -> but Psychopomp turns it off.
Tarrasque=General, Psychopomp=Specific

Or:
Regeneration -> Psychopomp Terminal Aura -> Tarraspuire Regeneration.
In which case Regeneration Functions, -> Psychopomp turns it off, -> but Tarrasque cannot be supressed.
Psychopomp=General, Tarrasque=Specific

As you can see, both conclusions can be reached logically so any attempt to convince someone that their viewpoint is wrong is technically false, since both answers could be technically true.
:p

Pathfinder is just too big and too complex to avoid these kinds of conflicts.

Thank you for that breakdown, that makes a lot of sense. However, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I want to make my interpretation as clear as possible.

To borrow your terms, I'd say both the Tarrasque's Regeneration AND the Terminal Aura are considered specific, but I don't think that means there's not a proper order of operations. The Tarrasque's Regeneration entry doesn't state that it CAN'T be turned off, or that NOTHING can turn it off, but specifically that "no attack form can turn it off." This is taking what could have been very clear cut wording, and made it more specific. Meanwhile, the Terminus Aura has no stipulations on which Regenerations it can or can't turn off. It doesn't have a clause at the bottom omitting exceptionally powerful creatures from the Aura's influence, or Regenerations that don't have an associated attack form. To me, the Tarrasque's specificity is what makes it lose this order of operations. As of right now (to my knowledge), there's no ruling on whether or not a debilitating Aura is considered a form of attack or not. If this gets cleared up, and it IS a form of attack, then I concede. This ruling would likely have other connotations, though, such as breaking Invisibility because your debilitating aura was active. If it's NOT a form of attack, I'd say that it bypasses the Tarrasque's Regeneration. Also, a dev could come and shut this idea down officially, and I'd concede to that as well.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

Essentially, since the Tarrasque cannot die, it is more powerful than a god because they can die.

Silver Crusade

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Charles Scholz wrote:

Essentially, since the Tarrasque cannot die, it is more powerful than a god because they can die.

(As of now) both only die under the same circumstance: narrative effect. If the GM says it dies, it dies.

The Exchange

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Blackwaltzomega wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
Ya know, these types of conversation makes me realize that "No man can kill me" "I am no man" isn't prophecy twist, its rules argument :D

It's kinda nice when you can have rules work as a prophecy twist.

I've always been fond of the thing with magical rules in Gargoyles; there's no such thing as an unbreakable, unconditional curse. You can set some damn ridiculous conditions like "you will be stone until my castle rises above the clouds" but if you put a curse on someone there has to be a condition under which it will break.

"You will be cursed until the curse is broken!"

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, PFS RPG, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've sworn a sacred oath... that none shall pass without my permission.

Well, may we have your permission?

Erm... yes?.!

-That is all.


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I do love me some psychopomps, but there seems to be a lot of variation on whether it will work or not. Personally, my favorite method so far is to just throw the bastard into the sun.

The relevant part:

Lightwarden wrote:


Wish has several possible options:
-Transport creatures: This one is interesting

....

Thing about transporting creatures via wish is that while you have cheaper and more effective methods of transporting you and your allies, you don't have cheaper and more effective ways of transporting your enemies. Wish can take up to one target per caster level from any location in any plane and deposit them anywhere else on any plane. So while you could use teleport to pop into a villain's sanctum, you could use wish to drop the villain into your sanctum instead. Or anywhere else you please.

Admittedly, you need to breach the target's Spell Resistance and the target has to fail a Will save, but that's not necessarily as hard as it sounds.

The Tarrasque is a legendary monster with 36 spell resistance and a will save bonus of +12. 

To beat its SR, we need to roll 1d20 + our caster level check.
+20 (level 20 wizard)
+1 ioun stone
+2 Casting from our enhanced magic (universal/wishes) greater demiplane
+4 anime kimono
+4 two feats on Greater Spell Penetration
+2 from our teamwork feat, which we can use any time we're adjacent to our valet familiar
+2 for being an elf (at least in spirit)

This is a total of +35, meaning we can succeed even on a natural 1. The Tarrasque has the highest SR in the game, and this is overkill. Just with our gear and basic Spell Penetration we can succeed almost 2/3rds of the time against the Tarrasque.

Meanwhile, the Tarrasque is rolling its will save against our spell DC of 10 + 9 (spell level) + our Int modifier, so an Intelligence score of 36 (achievable for a level 20 wizard, though it will require some investment in things like aging or inherent bonuses) will be enough to set the DC to 32, meaning the Tarrasque can only succeed on a natural 20. 

Should that not be enough, with the use of a metamagic rod to apply persistent spell the Tarrasque has to roll a natural 20 twice in order to shake off the wish.

So, barring some stupid luck on the part of the big T, you can send this engine of destruction anywhere you feel like. Maybe you want to see how your enemies handle the Tarrasque, or maybe you just want to teleport it into the heart of the sun. Now, this won't actually kill the Tarrasque since it's immune to fire damage, but the Tarrasque can't breathe in space. This isn't fatal either, because as a spawn of Rovagug, it hibernates whenever it would otherwise be unable to breathe and just rides it out. Up side to this is that while hibernating, it's immune to divinations and any spells that would allow spell resistance (such as teleportation effects andwish). This means that if you teleport the Tarrasque into space, people are going to have to find it and bring it back the old-fashion way unless they can figure out some way to make it breathe and pop out of hibernation. If it's locked in an air-less anti-magic zone like the Hotel California demiplane, people are going to have to find some non-magical ways to get it breathing and moving again (which is even harder if the Hotel California is also perpetually on fire and full of rocks and water).

So if the world is giving you a reward of more than 25,000 gp for defeating the Tarrasque, it's only a wish away. And since you can move one target per caster level, you can scatter the Tarrasque and the rest of its lesser siblings.


well there may be one way to kill it.....

might be waaaaaaaaay to much work to make it work though.

gate it into the negative energy plane.


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Steelfiredragon wrote:
gate it into the negative energy plane

Where it floats unharmed by the energy drain and laughs at the 1d6 damage per round.


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Positive energy plane, then.

Ironically, as a side note, the positive energy plane would actually bolster undead (as it gives fast healing) and be even less dangerous to them (as fortitude saves don't apply to undead).


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Yeah I would absolutely house rule that if that is the case.


step one portable hole
step two bag of holding
step three black hole
step four no one profits cuz every one is dead due to black hole


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Daedalus the Dungeon Builder wrote:

Positive energy plane, then.

Ironically, as a side note, the positive energy plane would actually bolster undead (as it gives fast healing) and be even less dangerous to them (as fortitude saves don't apply to undead).

Where it dies every 10 minutes or so, then regenerates three rounds later to continue soaring around the plane.

And the positive energy plane undead nonsense was partially addressed in an FAQ.

Positive and Negative Energy wrote:
These rules extend to the fast healing from positive-energy attuned planes as well (though overhealing on a major positive-energy attuned plane can be dangerous as well); only living creatures gain fast healing on such a plane.

Undead still aren't really hurt by being there, but at least they don't get infinite temporary hitpoints. It looks like that particular loophole only remains open for inevitables.


other possible way to kill it:

gate it into space......

fun thing to do with it:

gate it to one of the planets of the great old ones.. or older gods....


Regeneration (Ex) No form of attack can suppress the tarrasque's regeneration—it regenerates even if disintegrated or slain by a death effect. If the tarrasque fails a save against an effect that would kill it instantly, it rises from death 3 rounds later with 1 hit point if no further damage is inflicted upon its remains. It can be banished or otherwise transported as a means to save a region, but the method to truly kill it has yet to be discovered.

Every round, any creature within 50 feet of a memitim that has –1 or fewer hit points but is stable must succeed at a DC 23 Will saving throw or be affected by the spell bleed. Any dying creature within range of this aura does not receive a Constitution check to stabilize, but can still be healed as normal–though it may be affected by bleed in subsequent rounds if it is not restored to 0 or more hit points. Any creatures with fast healing or regeneration must also succeed at a DC 23 Will save every round or that ability does not function for 1 round. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Notice the wording on the tarrasque's regeneration. It actually does state it works if the tarrasque' is killed. Considering the Terminal Aura has a saving throw and you are using it to kill the tarrasque it comes back 3 rounds latter with 1 HP.


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Pathfinder Class Deck Subscriber
Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Regeneration (Ex) No form of attack can suppress the tarrasque's regeneration—it regenerates even if disintegrated or slain by a death effect. If the tarrasque fails a save against an effect that would kill it instantly, it rises from death 3 rounds later with 1 hit point if no further damage is inflicted upon its remains. It can be banished or otherwise transported as a means to save a region, but the method to truly kill it has yet to be discovered.

Every round, any creature within 50 feet of a memitim that has –1 or fewer hit points but is stable must succeed at a DC 23 Will saving throw or be affected by the spell bleed. Any dying creature within range of this aura does not receive a Constitution check to stabilize, but can still be healed as normal–though it may be affected by bleed in subsequent rounds if it is not restored to 0 or more hit points. Any creatures with fast healing or regeneration must also succeed at a DC 23 Will save every round or that ability does not function for 1 round. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Notice the wording on the tarrasque's regeneration. It actually does state it works if the tarrasque' is killed. Considering the Terminal Aura has a saving throw and you are using it to kill the tarrasque it comes back 3 rounds latter with 1 HP.

Key words that would kill it instantly. So if it failed it's save and then was reduced to negative con from an attack it didn't die as a result of a failed save that would kill it instantly.

(This argument assumes that Terminal Aura can suppress the Regeneration power which is not a given)


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Burn the DM's books and don't give him your wi-fi password.


Normal regeneration does not work after you are killed. That section states that the tarrasque's regeneration does work after it has been killed. That is the important part. Cuup on his second post stated that “Nowhere in this entry does it state that if the Tarrasque is considered dead, does the Regeneration turn back on, and bring it back to life” I am simply point out that he was wrong on that. This would invalidate the arguments that the tarrasque's regeneration stop functioning after death.


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I think it is very clear, and I'm going to actually use something Cuup said to determine how it goes. He pointed out that the aura has no stipulations regarding what it can and cannot turn off, whereas the tarrasque says it cannot be suppressed. So we have one ability that is very broad and one that is specific.

I don't see how that could be clearer regarding general vs specific. We also know that abilities that require a saving throw count as attacks even if they don't do damage (otherwise spellcasters could stay invisible and just cast debuffs) as that has been covered in the past.

Cuup, could you please elaborate how you feel that the aura is specific when it makes no comment about what it can and cannot suppress?


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Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Normal regeneration does not work after you are killed. That section states that the tarrasque's regeneration does work after it has been killed. That is the important part. Cuup on his second post stated that “Nowhere in this entry does it state that if the Tarrasque is considered dead, does the Regeneration turn back on, and bring it back to life” I am simply point out that he was wrong on that. This would invalidate the arguments that the tarrasque's regeneration stop functioning after death.

But the regeneration does state a time limit: 3 turns after death... nowhere does it state what occurs after it is prevented from doing so for those 3 turns(assuming it can be suppressed, which as per the OP's argument can be 50/50)


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I guess this is harder to explain than I thought. First, I'll start with the control.

Scenario 1 (Troll vs. Fire): Troll's HP drops below "Death" > Troll dies > Check Regeneration > Regeneration states that the Troll regains 5hp each round, regardless of how low its HP is, and will return to life when Regeneration brings its HP high enough > Troll regains 5hp > Repeat until HP is above "Death" > HP is now above "Death" > Troll returns to life > Troll takes fire damage > Fire damage turns off Regeneration for 1 round > Fire damage grops Troll's HP below "Death" > Troll dies > Check Regeneration > Regeneration is off > Troll is permanently dead

Cut and dry. Regeneration has an infinite contingency that is impossible to get around. The only way to permanently kill a creature with Regeneration is to remove the Regeneration. Luckily, common creatures like Trolls have Regeneration with a built-in fail safe. Removing Regeneration is built into the Regeneration mechanic.

Scenario 2 (Terminal Aura is not involved): Tarrasque fails a saving throw > effect tied to saving throw results in death > Tarrasque dies > Check Regeneration > Regeneration stipulates that the Tarrasque returns to life with 1 HP in 3 rounds > 3 rounds pass > Tarrasque returns to life with 1 HP

This is what happens when Regeneration doesn't have a built-in fail safe. There are no external forces (short of Mythic or Deific) that remove a creature's Regeneration, besides the Regeneration's own off switch. The Tarrasque has removed the off switch from its Regeneration, and added even more contingencies to keep it alive; the above Troll would still die if subject to a Death-effect or enough Ability damage, but the Tarrasque's Regeneration includes its own contingency to Death-effects.

Scenario 3 (Terminal Aura is involved): Tarrasque fails its saving throw vs. Terminal Aura > Regeneration is turned off > Tarrasque takes damage, dropping below "Death" > Tarrasque dies > Check Regeneration > Regeneration is off > Tarrasque is permanently dead

The Terminal Aura is the only mechanic in the game that can turn off Regeneration without using the Regeneration's own off switch. The Tarrasque doesn't have one, but based on the wording of both the Tarrasque's Regeneration and the Terminal Aura, nothing is stated to stop the Aura from functioning as designed on the Tarrasque. Unfortunately for the Tarrasque, its death-effect-contingency is tied directly to its Regeneration. On a Troll, the normal contingency was infinite hp regeneration, which would eventually return it to life. Turning off the Regeneration (even for 1 round) breaks that cycle forever. If the Troll was still alive after the 1 round was over, its Regeneration would turn back on, and Bob's your uncle. Since the Troll stays dead forever in scenario 1, we can deffer that if the Troll dies while its Regeneration is turned off, the Regeneration is never turned back on again, or else the cycle would never end. The Tarrasque's contingency that states that it returns to life after 3 rounds is as much a part of its own Regeneration as the Troll's HP contingency. If the Tarrasque dies while its Regeneration is turned off, that contingency is never activated, and never will be. The Tarrasque's Regeneration is still Regeneration. When the Terminal Aura turns it off, it's not just the hp contingency that is turned off - it's the entire ability (including the returned-to-life-in-3-rounds contingency).


Cuup wrote:
quote=Terminal Aura (Su)]Every round, any creature within 50 feet of a memitim that has –1 or fewer hit points and is stable must succeed at a DC 23 Will saving throw or be affected by the spell bleed. Any dying creature within this range does not receive a Constitution check to stabilize, but can be healed as normal—though it can be affected by bleed in subsequent rounds if not restored to 0 or more hit points. Any creatures with fast healing or regeneration must succeed at a DC 23 Will save every round or that ability does not function for 1 round. The save DCs are Charisma-based.
Tarasque Regeneration wrote:
No form of attack can suppress the tarrasque's regeneration

Terminal Aura does not work on the Tarasque.


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Haskol wrote:
Cuup wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
...but the method has yet to be discovered...
Printed in Bestiary 1 in 2011, Bestiary 6 had indeed not yet been discovered.

That is irrelevant. Book printing dates are not an acceptable method of bypassing the Tarrasque's complete immunity to suppression of its regeneration.

The end result is that gods (and in this case the spawn of a god) cannot be killed in Pathfinder. The Tarrasque is specifically immune to all attempts to suppress its regenerative abilities. This includes the abilities of significantly weaker creatures.

Short of GM fiat, you cannot kill the Tarrasque by design.

Charnel God from Bestiary 6: "The gods are no less strange and terrifying in death than in life. Though the death of any god is staggeringly rare, some do meet violent ends, often at the hands of other deities."

They totally can die. Though a bit off topic.

Scarab Sages

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Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this.
Everyone is making the same arguments both for killing and not killing.

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