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Killing the Tarrasque by the Books


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

151 to 200 of 258 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | next > last >>
The Exchange

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I think Tacticslion makes the best case for use of Tarrasque so far.

The danger of the Tarrasque is in when you use it. If you want to be an unstoppable beast for the players, where the goal is get people to survive it (a lah Godzilla and Cloverfield) then drop it in at level 10 or less

Want it to be a challenging but beatable fight, it's probably doable after level 10 with the right combination of characters and tools for the job. But it will never stay dead. It's the tool of a god (Rovagug in the case of Gollarion). It will always come back.

In Eberron for example, it was part of the world itself. It just spawned whenever wanton destruction was necessary. No rhyme nor reason as far as anyone could tell. Then it just disappeared into the earth itself.

The power of the Tarrasque is not in the stats, it's in the lore and use of it in your campaign.

The guy who stated he could just throw it out into space might well work for his campaign, but in Eberron that doesn't work. The body of the Tarrasque is transient. A new one forms for it everytime emerges to rampage. It is the embodiment of rage and destruction, and whilever those facets of life exist, so will the Tarrasque!

The thing to really remember is the core rules are written completely setting neutral. The moment you paint the setting over the top of it, those rules are subject to change accordingly.

It's like the Unreal Engine that computer games company use for graphics and physics. It's a standard engine until they tinker with it formtheir game, then everything is different.

The Exchange

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As another analogy, think of the Tarrasque like the weeping angels from Doctor Who.
They've been destroyed competency twice now.

But they're coming back again this season.

And no one knows why it can happen!

The Tarrasque is the DMs answer to "there still should be mysteries in the world"


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if u make a simulacrum of the tarrasque can you have it fight the real one forever


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CWheezy wrote:
if u make a simulacrum of the tarrasque can you have it fight the real one forever

Or now you have to fight two tarrasques Although I would say the fake one is killable.

Silver Crusade

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Vidmaster7 wrote:
CWheezy wrote:
if u make a simulacrum of the tarrasque can you have it fight the real one forever
Or now you have to fight two tarrasques Although I would say the fake one is killable.
Simulacrum wrote:
At all times, the simulacrum remains under your absolute command

So, no, you wouldn't have to fight it.


Eh officially anyways. Besides hes to many hitdice.

Liberty's Edge

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Wrath wrote:

I think Tacticslion makes the best case for use of Tarrasque so far.

The danger of the Tarrasque is in when you use it. If you want to be an unstoppable beast for the players, where the goal is get people to survive it (a lah Godzilla and Cloverfield) then drop it in at level 10 or less

Want it to be a challenging but beatable fight, it's probably doable after level 10 with the right combination of characters and tools for the job. But it will never stay dead. It's the tool of a god (Rovagug in the case of Gollarion). It will always come back.

In Eberron for example, it was part of the world itself. It just spawned whenever wanton destruction was necessary. No rhyme nor reason as far as anyone could tell. Then it just disappeared into the earth itself.

The power of the Tarrasque is not in the stats, it's in the lore and use of it in your campaign.

The guy who stated he could just throw it out into space might well work for his campaign, but in Eberron that doesn't work. The body of the Tarrasque is transient. A new one forms for it everytime emerges to rampage. It is the embodiment of rage and destruction, and whilever those facets of life exist, so will the Tarrasque!

The thing to really remember is the core rules are written completely setting neutral. The moment you paint the setting over the top of it, those rules are subject to change accordingly.

It's like the Unreal Engine that computer games company use for graphics and physics. It's a standard engine until they tinker with it formtheir game, then everything is different.

I agree with that sentiment. The devil is in the details of the lore. If the players do successfully kill the Big-T, what then. Maybe some more powerful and terribly force is born in the wake of it. maybe a group of the most deluded and devoted to the beast perform a powerful ritual to revive the beast. maybe the Tarrasque is like the first seal to some powerful prison, and its essense might give rovagug the energy to seed another of his terrible spawn into the world. Maybe even a false tarrasque is born from the collective dread of mortals still believing it might extist somewhere.

just because you kill it doesn't mean its dead. just because its dead doesn't mean its gone. and just because its gone doesn't mean it can't come back.


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Really this is just a more complex game of well ill give example

Lets say I put on a stat block Monster can not die Unless I say so. Then you guys go and try and find some sort of convoluted way to make that statement not true.


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Vidmaster7 wrote:
Eh officially anyways. Besides hes to many hitdice.

Limit is double caster level, tarrasque only has 30 hd. level 15 caster can do it


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CWheezy wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
Eh officially anyways. Besides hes to many hitdice.
Limit is double caster level, tarrasque only has 30 hd. level 15 caster can do it

Holy crap it does say twice... Well that is op as hell. I feel like you could conquer the world with that alone.

Hmm The spell says if it get reduced to 0 HP or is otherwise destroyed IT reverts to snow. Does that or tarrasque's regeneration win out on conflict?


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Also Wow what a huge Ice sculpture. That you had to keep solid for 12 hours. (but not the hard part. for a 15th level wizard) ... High level spells are OP...

Dark Archive

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Like I do agree with that at levels where you can beat Tarrasque, its immortalness doesn't really matter much, but I do kinda think its part of the gimmick of Tarrasque that if you beat it, you have to figure out some other way to negate the threat than just kiling it. Sure gm can allow you to figure out way to perma kill it, but I find it more amusing as creativity test.

Like, give players chance to do "So we gonna create this uber cool seal thing that will probably be adventure location in distant future when some dumb villain tries to release it and new heroes show up lol" type of stuff instead of the standard "Let's just perma kill s+@! out of this bad guy so he threathens no one!!" thing players like to do. Sure they can do something boring as "let's teleport it into unhabitated planet" and thats fine.


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I think the other Beasts could take T:
The End-Singer can sicken big T, as T will make saves vs bing nauseated, but no bleed will work.
Plus flying so can strafe him.

Chemnosit if lucky can disintegrate T, then he three rounds of rest before big T returns.

no energy resist:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary/tarrasque.html
So Firebleeder can beat him up.


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Let's take a look at those one at a time. First: the tarrasque vs. the End-Singer.

The tarrasque actually stands a reasonable chance of winning this one if it wins initiative, so long as the End-Singer starts out visible, within 300 ft., and no more than 60 ft. off the ground. The tarrasque can simply charge the End-Singer, hitting him with its bite attack on a 2 for an average of 53 damage and a grab attack that succeeds on a 2 against the End-Singer's flat-footed CMD. On the End-Singer's turn he regenerates up to 414 hp, but he needs a 19 to escape the grapple and can't move away or make the concentration check to cast. The tarrasque is immune to his bleed and eye rays, so all the End-Singer can do is unleash a full-attack against the tarrasque for an average of 74 damage. On the tarrasque's turn, it regenerates up to 491 hp, releases the grapple, and responds with a full-attack of its own, dealing an average of 149 damage and grabbing the End-Singer once more if it rolls a 5 or higher on its grapple check. They can continue to slug it out, but the tarrasque will knock it unconscious after four rounds of full-attacking and still be at around 388 hp, ready to pummel the End-Singer far into the negatives. Even if the tarrasque fails one of its grapple checks, it will get another chance to grab with an attack of opportunity if the End-Singer tries to move away, although the End-Singer's intelligence of 7 might be enough to realize it needs to cast defensively to activate its greater invisibility SLA before escaping.

If the End-Singer goes first, however, or if he starts out too far away for a charge, the battle quickly turns into a stalemate. The End-Singer can simply cast greater invisibility and soar into the air. The tarrasque can do nothing but hurl its spines into random 30-ft. cubes, while the End-Singer's eye rays would bounce harmlessly off of the tarrasque's carapace. He could attempt to strafe it with Flyby Attack and Improved Vital Strike, but would only deal an average of about 36 damage, not enough to overcome the tarrasque's regeneration. In the end, they'd have little to do but grudgingly head their separate ways.


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Next fight: the tarrasque vs. the Monarch Worm.

The Monarch Worm's disintegrate would bounce harmlessly off of the tarrasque's carapace. In the end, though, the tarrasque's chances still don't look good. If the two creatures just stood there and traded blows, a full-attack from the Monarch Worm would deal an average of only 114 damage to the tarrasque. The tarrasque's full-attack, meanwhile, would deal an average of 149 damage to the Monarch Worm, but would also deal an additional 104 damage to itself from the Monarch Worm's spines. Even with the tarrasque's superior regeneration, it would almost certainly fall unconscious before it could knock out the Monarch Worm. While it could grapple the Monarch Worm with ease, that would hardly help it, since the Monarch Worm's subsequent tentacle attacks would give it 6 chances to grab the tarrasque back with a 12 or higher. Ordinarily, the tarrasque's best strategy in a case like this would be to stay on the move, peppering the Monarch Worm with spines while avoiding a full-attack in return. This sort of evasive tactic, however, loses its effectiveness against a foe who can just burrow underground to regenerate whenever he needs to.

Furthermore, if the tarrasque takes too long to kill the Monarch Worm, it will eventually roll a natural 1 on its Fortitude save against his hungry gaze. It's unclear whether the overwhelming hunger for tarrasque flesh is a mind-affecting effect or not, but the staggering certainly isn't. Either way, the Monarch Worm will be able to wear the tarrasque down, but the hunger effect would certainly be more dramatic. Just imagine: the tarrasque begins to devour its own flesh, regenerating limbs only to gulp them down once more. The tarrasque's average bite damage is high enough to overcome its regeneration, so after about six or seven minutes of glorious carnage it will collapse into unconsciousness, allowing the Monarch Worm to beat it down into the negatives.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

That is quite an image, Avoron.


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Yep, and it gets even better when you think that given the Monarch Worm's tendency to "drink in the carnage like a feast before devouring any survivors," it very well might just leave the tarrasque alone to devour itself indefinitely, continually drifting in and out of consciousness only to resume the consumption. Talk about interesting ways to introduce a tarrasque to a campaign!

Next fight: the tarrasque vs. the Firebleeder.

The tarrasque is immune to fire damage, which is pretty much the Firebleeder's only thing. Once that's out of the picture, the tarrasque's attack routine is just straight-up better. The tarrasque can easily beat the the Firebleeder into negative hp. Interestingly enough, though, the Firebleeder has Diehard, which means the tarrasque has no way to actually knock it unconscious. But nothing it can do while staggered can overcome the tarrasque's regeneration, so the tarrasque can happily smash it into a pulp.


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Bonus fight: the tarrasque vs. the Unholy First.

This one plays out fairly straightforwardly. The Unholy First has flight, but that provides less of an advantage for a creature without ranged weapons or Flyby Attack, and most of its other abilities don't work on creatures as large as the tarrasque. With one crucial exception: it's tremor step knocks the tarrasque prone if it doesn't roll a 17 or higher on its Reflex save, and it can be activated as easily as taking a 5-foot step. This means the tarrasque will almost certainly be prone throughout their fight. A full-attack from the Unholy First against a prone tarrasque will deal an average of 190 damage, while the prone tarrasque can dish out barely 96 damage in response. The tarrasque doesn't stand a chance.


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Huh I just realized Tarrasque is DC's Doomsday His adaption just comes by edition every addition he adapts to what killed him in the past.


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Vidmaster7 wrote:
Huh I just realized Tarrasque is DC's Doomsday His adaption just comes by edition every addition he adapts to what killed him in the past.

It's more likely Doomsday's liberally based on big T...


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Well lets see doomsday came out in 1992 Tarrasque in 1977 but he was a lot different back then. The second edition monster manual in 1993 he still wasn't that close but their is some similarities then of course the iteration in 3.0 round 2000. Its hard to say for sure but there could be someone out there who saw one and thought of the other.


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Vidmaster7 wrote:
Well lets see doomsday came out in 1992 Tarrasque in 1977 but he was a lot different back then. The second edition monster manual in 1993 he still wasn't that close but their is some similarities then of course the iteration in 3.0 round 2000. Its hard to say for sure but there could be someone out there who saw one and thought of the other.

When DC created Doomsday for the Death of Superman he did not have his "evolutionary power" yet. That was added later on.


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What would happen if you got the Tarrasque to dead/unconsciousness and then cast Temporal Stasis on the corpse?

You're not suppressing the regeneration its just about to kick in. Forever...


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Add it to the pile of ways to deal with a Tarrasque for an indefinite amount of time.

The Exchange

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In a previous thread on the Tarrasque and killing it, someone had a town built around a its body. The town mined the bones, teeth, flesh, fat and skin to make all sorts of stuff. In doing so, they kept big T in negatives even while he regenerated.

That's some cool setting material


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Thats a very busy town xD they'd have to mine like constantly unless they had an undead/contructed work force of course

The Exchange

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Constructs and animated machinery. This is a world where the Tarrasque is being mined for profit. High magic is assumed. I imagine bound elemental would also work


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Wrath wrote:
Constructs and animated machinery. This is a world where the Tarrasque is being mined for profit. High magic is assumed. I imagine bound elemental would also work

I don't know if it was there originally, but one of the things I've heard from the tarrasque town was a group of scythe wielding golems located inside it's head constantly keeping it down with scythes. Just coup de grace repeatedly for eternity.

Another version was that it was alive and conscious, just held in place with numerous immovable spears (spears with immovable rods built in)

Silver Crusade

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Sah wrote:
Wrath wrote:
Constructs and animated machinery. This is a world where the Tarrasque is being mined for profit. High magic is assumed. I imagine bound elemental would also work

I don't know if it was there originally, but one of the things I've heard from the tarrasque town was a group of scythe wielding golems located inside it's head constantly keeping it down with scythes. Just coup de grace repeatedly for eternity.

Another version was that it was alive and conscious, just held in place with numerous immovable spears (spears with immovable rods built in)

It's only a DC 30 to move those, Terrasque can hit that. Plus, depending on how you read his abilities, he can still charge regardless.


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I think the idea would be that he had to beat all the DCs in one round to move, so if there were 30 of them for example he'd have to role a 15 or higher 30 times in a row .

Obviously they aren't reading the charge rules that way :P

Silver Crusade

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Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

I think the idea would be that he had to beat all the DCs in one round to move, so if there were 30 of them for example he'd have to role a 15 or higher 30 times in a row .

Obviously they aren't reading the charge rules that way :P

Unstoppable Force (Ex) wrote:
A spawn of Rovagug can always charge, even if its movement is impeded


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That rule feels exploitable >.>

Could you, you know strap like an island to one and have them drag it places xD
Or like charge out of a black hole?


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Yeah the idea was that there were enough that he was bound to fail enough to stop him, and while that charging rule is RAW I feel that it's probably not RAI. I read that as even if it's slowed or staggered or what have you it can still charge though it normally couldn't. Even if that's not the case, that's how it was interpreted in that particular game.


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Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

That rule feels exploitable >.>

Could you, you know strap like an island to one and have them drag it places xD
Or like charge out of a black hole?

Well for the islan I would say the island falls apart when he does the rovagug charge. I don't know about the black hole I'll have to wait for starfinder.


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Um... I feel like that line

Unstoppable Force wrote:
A spawn of Rovagug can always charge, even if its movement is impeded

applies specifically to counteract this one

Movement During a Charge wrote:
You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles).

In other words, it doesn't allow the tarrasque to ignore effects impeding its movement, or move when it would otherwise be unable to, it simply serves as an exception to the general rule that hindered movement prevents a charge entirely.

Silver Crusade

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Avoron wrote:

Um... I feel like that line

Unstoppable Force wrote:
A spawn of Rovagug can always charge, even if its movement is impeded

applies specifically to counteract this one

Movement During a Charge wrote:
You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles).
In other words, it doesn't allow the tarrasque to ignore effects impeding its movement, or move when it would otherwise be unable to, it simply serves as an exception to the general rule that hindered movement prevents a charge entirely.

Which is why I said it depends on your reading. I'm sure that was their intention, but it's not a guaranteed reading either. Precise language is important, seeing as how "obstacles" could mean just about anything.


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sorry was trying to ask question, didnt mean to repost... however, my question is what if the soul of a tarrasque were to be removed from the creature, the body can get regen, but what of the soul? I'm a newer D.M. and one of my players is a necromancer and he asked me if a devourer were to steal the tarrasque's soul, could it still have biological functions?


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FrozenLaughs wrote:

Take it to zero HP however you do, then use a Wish to teleport the carcass to the deepest recesses of the bottom of the ocean.

"Regeneration also does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation."

Not counting the use of logic like lack of oxygen or crushing pressure; at best it regenerates once, tries to inhale air as the first thing it does and immediately begins making Constitution checks for drowning.

"When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns."

Or do we assume the Tarrasque's caveat of "nothing surpresses Regen" somehow applies to drowning in this one specific case?

Scroll back up and read the part where Hibernation has been previously linked.

You cannot kill the tarrasque through suffocation.


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archangel1109 wrote:

sorry was trying to ask question, didnt mean to repost... however, my question is what if the soul of a tarrasque were to be removed from the creature, the body can get regen, but what of the soul? I'm a newer D.M. and one of my players is a necromancer and he asked me if a devourer were to steal the tarrasque's soul, could it still have biological functions?

Depends on the ability in question. If it give the Tarrasque the "dead' condition then he rises from the grave 3 rounds later as per his regeneration. So in the case of the Devourer big T would just come back 3 rounds later.

If it's something like say trap the soul which imprisons the Tarrasques' soul and body without killing it then he remains trapped until he is released


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Grapple the Tarrasque!

If you begin your round adjacent to the Tarrasque, you have Greater Grapple and the Expert Captor Cavalier Order Ability, you might Grapple and Tie Up the Tarrasque in a single round.

The Tarrasque's CMD is quite high, but I believe a sufficiently high level Grappler, perhaps with sufficient buffs, would stand a fair chance of success. Assuming you had strong enough rope, that is.

Once you have your Tarrasque bound in your specially made woven adamantine rope, you then cast Wall of Force followed by Permanency.

Seems plausible...

Silver Crusade

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Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Grapple the Tarrasque!

If you begin your round adjacent to the Tarrasque, you have Greater Grapple and the Expert Captor Cavalier Order Ability, you might Grapple and Tie Up the Tarrasque in a single round.

The Tarrasque's CMD is quite high, but I believe a sufficiently high level Grappler, perhaps with sufficient buffs, would stand a fair chance of success. Assuming you had strong enough rope, that is.

Once you have your Tarrasque bound in your specially made woven adamantine rope, you then cast Wall of Force followed by Permanency.

Seems plausible...

I mean, it's doable I guess, but it still requires DM fiat to make the rope. It'd have to be reeeeeeeeally strong, Big T has a +35 to strength rolls to break objects. Once he breaks the rope he simple has to batter the wall of force until it collapses. Wouldn't take long.


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I seem to recall the 3.5 Tarrasque lack ER Acid, and the Pathfinder Tarrasque lacks ER Cold.

Perhaps you could cast a Fabricate Spell to manufacture tremendous quantities of either Acid or Alchemal Ice, perhaps shaped by a Decanter of Endless Water? If your GM would allow you to use Fabricate in this way, the Damage would be pretty outrageous: a vial of acid being like 4oz, a Decanter of Endless Water producing like 30 gallons/round, and Fabricate producing many times that. So like 4 oz/attack X 4 attacks/pint/8 pints/gallon X 30 gallons/round X 1d6/attack that's more than 1000d6/round! So then you need to keep the Tarrasque in a pool of the stuff so that it's Regeneration isn't being shut down, but the beast will be contained.


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Isonaroc wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Grapple the Tarrasque!

If you begin your round adjacent to the Tarrasque, you have Greater Grapple and the Expert Captor Cavalier Order Ability, you might Grapple and Tie Up the Tarrasque in a single round.

The Tarrasque's CMD is quite high, but I believe a sufficiently high level Grappler, perhaps with sufficient buffs, would stand a fair chance of success. Assuming you had strong enough rope, that is.

Once you have your Tarrasque bound in your specially made woven adamantine rope, you then cast Wall of Force followed by Permanency.

Seems plausible...

I mean, it's doable I guess, but it still requires DM fiat to make the rope. It'd have to be reeeeeeeeally strong, Big T has a +35 to strength rolls to break objects. Once he breaks the rope he simple has to batter the wall of force until it collapses. Wouldn't take long.

Well, you sure can make adamantine chain, but there are no rules for a break DC.

I was thinking of the 1st Edition Wall of Force, which can't be battered down. Whoopsie.

So, once grappled, you have to move the Tarrasque into that pool of Acid or Alchemal Ice and keep it filled?


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Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Isonaroc wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Grapple the Tarrasque!

If you begin your round adjacent to the Tarrasque, you have Greater Grapple and the Expert Captor Cavalier Order Ability, you might Grapple and Tie Up the Tarrasque in a single round.

The Tarrasque's CMD is quite high, but I believe a sufficiently high level Grappler, perhaps with sufficient buffs, would stand a fair chance of success. Assuming you had strong enough rope, that is.

Once you have your Tarrasque bound in your specially made woven adamantine rope, you then cast Wall of Force followed by Permanency.

Seems plausible...

I mean, it's doable I guess, but it still requires DM fiat to make the rope. It'd have to be reeeeeeeeally strong, Big T has a +35 to strength rolls to break objects. Once he breaks the rope he simple has to batter the wall of force until it collapses. Wouldn't take long.

Well, you sure can make adamantine chain, but there are no rules for a break DC.

I was thinking of the 1st Edition Wall of Force, which can't be battered down. Whoopsie.

So, once grappled, you have to move the Tarrasque into that pool of Acid or Alchemal Ice and keep it filled?

Incapacitating the Tarrasque for an indefinite period of time is not hard at high level.

Plane Shift to the positive or negative material planes will result in endless deaths until an outside agency intervenes.


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Or put him in the sun, or the bottom of the ocean or Temporal Stasis his corps.

Loads of ways to deal with it xD

Silver Crusade

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Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

Or put him in the sun, or the bottom of the ocean or Temporal Stasis his corps.

Loads of ways to deal with it xD

I don't think temporal stasis would work, a corpse generally isn't considered a creature. As far as I can tell, though, it would work on a living Tarrasque so long as you can beat the SR and it botched the fort save.

Don't put him in the sun, that would piss off Eziah.


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The Tarrasque is immune to Fire. So it never die if you teleport it into the sun. Best case scenario it will just hibernate in it's cozy new bed until the Starfinder Era when some idiot dredges it out to unleash upon some hapless world... Worst case scenario the Tarrasque will eventually absorb and cancel enough of the sun's heat to put it out, dooming all life on Golarion to a frosty deaths (except those few creatures immune to cold and eventual asphyxiation).


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Cantriped wrote:
The Tarrasque is immune to Fire. So it never die if you teleport it into the sun. Best case scenario it will just hibernate in it's cozy new bed until the Starfinder Era when some idiot dredges it out to unleash upon some hapless world... Worst case scenario the Tarrasque will eventually absorb and cancel enough of the sun's heat to put it out, dooming all life on Golarion to a frosty deaths (except those few creatures immune to cold and eventual asphyxiation).

Since it doesn't float it must not be immune to gravity. It'll "die."


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Isonaroc wrote:
Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

Or put him in the sun, or the bottom of the ocean or Temporal Stasis his corps.

Loads of ways to deal with it xD

I don't think temporal stasis would work, a corpse generally isn't considered a creature. As far as I can tell, though, it would work on a living Tarrasque so long as you can beat the SR and it botched the fort save.

Don't put him in the sun, that would piss off Eziah.

If its not a creature is it an object? can I animate object it xD


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Scott Wilhelm wrote:


Well, you sure can make adamantine chain, but there are no rules for a break DC.

Actually they printed one

chain

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