I noticed that the Imp's Caster Level for its SLA's is 6th, even though it only has 3HD. This is unusual, and I was wondering if it was a typo? If it's not a typo, then if the Imp were to gain additional HD through class levels, would the CL increase, always remaining 3 higher than the Imp's total HD, or would it remain at 6 until it gained its 6th HD, and then match the Imp's HD from there?
Its commune ability is noted to be at CL 12, and they probably didn't make two typos, so....
I don't know that its SLA CL should change at all just because it gains HD / class levels. I can't find anything in Monster Advancement about doing that.
Most Improved-Familiar-Outsiders have Commune as a CL-12th-SLA, so I'm not worried about that. However, pretty much all of those same Outsiders have a standard CL equal to their HD. The only exception I've seen is the Imp, whose CL is double its HD.
Whatever the reason for the imp's high CL, it is legacy from its v.3.5 stats.
One guess is that it was raised to 6th because it can use suggestion (S/W 3). However, the SLA entry under the PF universal monster rules (also mostly intact from v.3.5) specifically states that the creature's CL never affects which SLAs it has.
That isn't particulary unusual. Spell like ability caster level is not necessarily related at all to hit dice.
The Cassisian Angel has 2 hd, CL 3
Harbinger Archon has 3 hd, CL 6
Tripurasura 3 hd, CL6
Brain Mole 1 hd Manifester Level 5
Carbuncle 2 hd, CL 3
Cacodaemon 3 hd, CL 6
Quasit 3 hd, CL 6
For just a few examples.
i think they made his caster level count as the minimum sorcerer caster level to cast the spells.
and separated the caster level of daily and weekly spells.
his highest daily spell (suggestion) is a 3rd level spell for sorcerers and need 6 levels.
the weekly commune is puzzling me since its a 5th level spell even in 3.5
I noticed that the Imp's Caster Level for its SLA's is 6th, even though it only has 3HD. This is unusual, and I was wondering if it was a typo? If it's not a typo, then if the Imp were to gain additional HD through class levels, would the CL increase, always remaining 3 higher than the Imp's total HD, or would it remain at 6 until it gained its 6th HD, and then match the Imp's HD from there?
Is this a DM question or a character question about an improved familiar?
If it's a DM question about designing an imp with characvter levels as an adversary, you certainly could raise its caster level commensurately. Nothing stopping you.
If it's for an improved familiar, I've got to ask how you think your imp is going to gain character levels. That's not one of the things that familiars get, unless your DM is allowing you to combine the benefits of a familiar and a cohort from the leadership feat... in which case all notion of balance goes out the window anyway, so why not?
AFAIK there is no automatic mechanism for advancing a given creature's caster level for SLAs based on advancing their HD with character levels. I would tend to think their CL should increase to equal their total HD, but you might also link it to the class they are advancing in (fighter levels = no CL advance, sorcerer levels = +1 CL advance, for example).
Thanks for the replies. It was a DM question. Hmm I'm not sure where I first got the impression that SLA CL's advanced with a creature's HD, but apparently I've been mistaken this whole time.
I noticed that the Imp's Caster Level for its SLA's is 6th, even though it only has 3HD. This is unusual, and I was wondering if it was a typo? If it's not a typo, then if the Imp were to gain additional HD through class levels, would the CL increase, always remaining 3 higher than the Imp's total HD, or would it remain at 6 until it gained its 6th HD, and then match the Imp's HD from there?
It's not a typo, and the monsters that have 'magical powers' (Spell-like abilities) that exceed its HD have that into count when calculating the CR.
Quick example: if an Imp with a CL equal to HD has a CR of 3, then an Imp with CL>HD could have a CR of 4 or even higher, depending on the power it gains from the benefit.
Note that the CR rating system is not perfect and sometimes is arguable, but that's another topic.
As for the improved familiar or cohort options, the cleanest way it's the basic rules of CL=HD, so if you have an imp with 3 HD and CL 6 its CL shouldn't be modified until it has 7 HD. Now if your GM allows to make that same imp's CL=HD+3 (meaning CL 10 at 7 HD) then I guess it's also possible.
Also Spell-like abilities and the ability to cast spells like a class (like the Planetar) are not the same.
If you have, lets say, a Nymph as a cohort. She have 8 racial (fey) HD, Spell-like abilites at CL 8, and Druid spells at CL 7. If she were to gain one extra HD using the cohort rules the she have a few options:
- If her new HD it's a class that gives synergistic powers (like the druid), then she would be a 9 HD Nymph (8 Fey HD + 1 Druid HD), spell-like abilities with CL 9, druid spells with CL 8, and the new class features gained at lvl 1 which are: nature bond (animal companion for a 1 lvl druid), nature sense, and wild empathy.
Since the Nymph already have wild empathy, in this case both fey HD and Druid HD count for the total HD of the feature.
- If her new HD it's a class that don't synergies with its actual powers (let's say a fighter HD), then the CL for druid spells remain the same, but the CL for its spell-like abilties are 9 (8 Fey HD + 1 Fighter HD), and of course she gains the extra feat feature of the warrior class.
Well, that's how it works in 3.5, I don't know if PF changed something, and at this point I really hope not...
Thanks for the replies. It was a DM question. Hmm I'm not sure where I first got the impression that SLA CL's advanced with a creature's HD, but apparently I've been mistaken this whole time.
I think there's a general rule that says if no caste level is listed, it is equal to the creature's hit dice. That may have been where you picked it up from.
It's not a familiar, but Aboleths are caster level 16, but only 8 hit die.
I don't know what would happen to the caster level if you were to add more hit die though.