Temporary Hex problems


Rules Questions


So, two examples of Hexes that seem to (for me) indicate a mechanics problem.

In example one, a Shaman gains a wandering hex from the Life spirit- Life Link.

Life Link is a supernatural ability that gives the Shaman the ability to use a standard action to link their health with a target. It specifies conditions under which the effect is ended.

Wandering Hex specifies that the Shaman loses the hex when they contact a wandering spirit for a new hex. This I follow fine.

The problem is as I read it, this merely means the Shaman loses the ability to take the standard action to initiate the life link. Not that it ends the effect of any previous life link action that had been taken previously.

To reinforce this viewpoint we have example two. A Shaman gains a hex and then casts Imbue Hex to give a hex to a target for use.

The target doesn't need any ability to otherwise hex at all, and the spell specifies that the spell ends when the hex is used, thereby losing the ability to use the hex further past its normal duration.

The mechanics of the spell seem to prove the point that you don't have to currently have the hex to benefit from the effects of previous uses of it, but at the same time it's clear that many of these 'hexes' were ripped whole cloth from other sources (like Oracle revelations) without sanity checking the wording against the idea that characters would be rotating through to gain the benefits of these revelations only temporarily.

What about examples like Cinder Dance? If a shaman gains it as a wandering hex or a random other character gets it through imbue hex do they now permanently have increased movespeed and potentially extra feats after activating it with a standard action?

I can assume that RAI characters benefit from hexes they gain temporarily for their entire duration as long as the hex has a finite duration, and gain no further benefit from hexes that have no duration after they lose the hex.

But that still leaves things like Life Link. It has a finite duration, it's just not a static duration. Should its effects persist until the conditions in the description of the hex end them? Or should they end with the loss of the hex?


I'm pretty sure the effect remains until its duration expires even if you lose the ability to further use the hex. As for cinder dance that is an oracle revelation not a hex. I can't think of a hex off the top of my head that doesn't have a duration.


ArmchairDM wrote:
I'm pretty sure the effect remains until its duration expires even if you lose the ability to further use the hex. As for cinder dance that is an oracle revelation not a hex. I can't think of a hex off the top of my head that doesn't have a duration.

It's also a hex of the Flame Spirit.


My mistake, didn't see that :)

It looks to me like that hex isn't activated. As long as you possess the hex you always have its effect. So if you loose the hex you loose its effect as well.


See also, Wisdom of the Ages of the Ancestor Spirit, or Battle Master of the Battle Spirit, etc.

Durationless Hexes are definitely a minority, but they exist and sometimes give feats.


The ability comes from the Spirit, not from the Shaman. Sever the connection with the spirit, and the spirit stops providing ANY of the ability. Why would it?


ArmchairDM wrote:

My mistake, didn't see that :)

It looks to me like that hex isn't activated. As long as you possess the hex you always have its effect. So if you loose the hex you loose its effect as well.

Using a hex is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity unless otherwise noted is in the class description for hexes.


Daw wrote:
The ability comes from the Spirit, not from the Shaman. Sever the connection with the spirit, and the spirit stops providing ANY of the ability. Why would it?

Then what does Imbue Hex do? The target has no requirement of a connection with a spirit at all.


Looking at them it looks like all of them are passive. Once you take that hex you receive the benefit so if you lost the hex you would lose the benefit. For hexes with a duration those all require an active use and if you lose the hex I would say any effects from that hex remain until the duration ends.


Hushed, the targets connection to the spirit is through the Shaman.


While I find both answers compelling, they are different answers and it still doesn't address the issue of Life Link.

A Shaman with Life as their primary spirit could Imbue Hex Life Link- does this mean whatever target they imbued the hex to could use it indefinitely as long as the termination conditions weren't met? In this example the Shaman never loses their connection to their spirit to address Daw's answer and Life Link has a finite but indefinite duration to address ArmchairDM.

I'm leaning towards yes, even though it seems like it could allow some abusable corner cases.


Daw wrote:
Hushed, the targets connection to the spirit is through the Shaman.

Though now that I think about it, this answer could cause some real problems more broadly with party or companion coordination. A Shaman should take the Battle Spirit to be a 9th level caster that permanently gives the melee extra feats and combat buffs, or with Animal Ally just buffs their companion. Just as an example.

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