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A Few questions about bluff checks, lies and ghost sound during battle.


Rules Questions


Hey team,

I have a player who is a raksha blood line sorc level 2. he has maxed out his talking skills. I will get you the stats breakdown but it looks like he has silver tongue which is +5 and the skill maxed out and an 18 charisma. i think if he rolls well he gets a +16 to the roll.

he is half elf with skill focus bluff +2
he is level 2 with it maxed out +9(+2 rank +3 class skill +4 charisma)
and then silver tongue (+5 3x per day)

any way we were fighting an orgekin and it calls for backup immediately. any way 2 more monsters run into the room and he makes an amazing bluff roll talking about how he is a powerful sorc and will curse them with the symptoms of ebola. he rolled really high the total roll was around 35 and even with a -15 for blatant lies he still rolled really high.

anyway I want to give him some leeway because he is the party face. and combat is basically him casting acid splash over and over again.

but how does that play out? I had the orgekin who are stupid run away in fear. basically saving the party from a TPK.

how does it work using the rules? and no dm being nice?

also I have another player who is playing the standard gnome illusionist so he creates ghost sounds and silent image during combat
I have been giving the effected enemies -2 to hit and DMG due to distraction.

how does it actually work during combat?


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

The way I would run that lie, it's an intimidate and he can aid himself with bluff. A high skill bonus shouldn't be able to preempt the effects of a completely different skill.

I'd go one of two ways with the illusionist, depending on how the player wants to affect the battle. What you described, I'd allow to be treated as an aid-another check. Perhaps Aiding an ally's AC by having an illusion next to/behind the enemy distracting the enemy just as he swings. Or Aiding attack by placing an illusion to appear to be a flanking ally.

The other route, is to have the illusionist attempt to create specific effects by describing the illusion and how it affects the enemy. You need to be careful here as a GM though. If you let the player go crazy, a 1st-level spell can be duplicating the effects of much higher-level spells. A simple example is an illusion of a black-blindfold duplicating the effect of blindness. I feel that's too powerful.

Sovereign Court

Considering the Cantrip Flare exists, gives a save, and only gives a -1 to attack rolls (and sight based perception checks), and the Cantrip Unwitting Ally (also allows a save) allows you to flank with an enemy (similar enough to aid another) that I feel that adding Aid another to ghost sound would be to much. However, silent image is a first level spell and I could totally see something like making the image of a log trap flying at the enemy would be a reasonable aid for distraction.


Lobolusk wrote:


any way we were fighting an orgekin and it calls for backup immediately. any way 2 more monsters run into the room and he makes an amazing bluff roll talking about how he is a powerful sorc and will curse them with the symptoms of ebola. he rolled really high the total roll was around 35 and even with a -15 for blatant lies he still rolled really high.

anyway I want to give him some leeway because he is the party face. and combat is basically him casting acid splash over and over again.

but how does that play out? I had the orgekin who are stupid run away in fear. basically saving the party from a TPK.

how does it work using the rules? and no dm being nice?

also I have another player who is playing the standard gnome illusionist so he creates ghost sounds and silent image during combat
I have been giving the effected enemies -2 to hit and DMG due to distraction.

how does it actually work during combat?

This is really an intimidate, not a bluff check. I mean it's kind of a bluff, in the sense that he can't yet cast Contagion to curse them with a disease. But those ogres also wouldn't have any idea what Ebola is either.

So yeah. He can make a bluff to convince them that he can cast Contagion to curse them with a disease. Which then leads to an Intimidate check to demoralize, that I would give a bonus to for the good bluff.

As for the illusion magic...it's basically worthless in combat. By the rules it provides no distraction or anything else to the enemy. Usually illusion magic is used to avoid encounters, it's practically worthless once the fight has started.


For the illusionist, if he wants to take a feat to make illusions more helpful he can take:

Threatening Illusion wrote:

A fantastic collection of adventures, magic, monsters, new rules, and more for fey and forest-themed campaigns using Pathfinder and 5E!

You’ve mastered the art of making illusions that force foes to divide their attention in combat.

Prerequisites: Spell Focus (illusion), gnome.

Benefit: You can use this metamagic feat only on illusion (figment) spells.

A threatening illusion spell causes one target to believe your illusion is a threat. Choose one 5-foot square within the area of your illusion; that square threatens the target as long as it is adjacent. Thus, if you or an ally is on the opposite side of the target, it is considered flanking. Normally the area must contain an illusory creature of Small or Medium size. However, you can select one square of a larger illusory creature to threaten the target. For example, an illusory Large ogre takes up four 5-foot squares; you select one square to be the source of the threat, and its other three squares do not threaten anyone. If the target has reason to believe there is an invisible creature in the vicinity, even an auditory illusion with no visual elements (such as ghost sound) is sufficient to convince the target that the selected square contains an actual threat. As long as you maintain the illusion, you can change the location of the threatening square as a swift action. When you threaten a target with this spell, the foe may make a Will save to disbelieve (DC 10 + threatening spell’s level + your spellcasting ability score modifier). If the target makes this save, the threatening effect of this feat no longer applies to it.

Level Increase: +1 (a threatening illusion takes up a spell slot one level higher than normal.)

Normal: Illusion spells do not threaten squares.

Which is kind of similar to what GinoA was talking about but requires a feat to do.


Claxon wrote:
Lobolusk wrote:


any way we were fighting an orgekin and it calls for backup immediately. any way 2 more monsters run into the room and he makes an amazing bluff roll talking about how he is a powerful sorc and will curse them with the symptoms of ebola. he rolled really high the total roll was around 35 and even with a -15 for blatant lies he still rolled really high.

anyway I want to give him some leeway because he is the party face. and combat is basically him casting acid splash over and over again.

but how does that play out? I had the orgekin who are stupid run away in fear. basically saving the party from a TPK.

how does it work using the rules? and no dm being nice?

also I have another player who is playing the standard gnome illusionist so he creates ghost sounds and silent image during combat
I have been giving the effected enemies -2 to hit and DMG due to distraction.

how does it actually work during combat?

This is really an intimidate, not a bluff check. I mean it's kind of a bluff, in the sense that he can't yet cast Contagion to curse them with a disease. But those ogres also wouldn't have any idea what Ebola is either.

So yeah. He can make a bluff to convince them that he can cast Contagion to curse them with a disease. Which then leads to an Intimidate check to demoralize, that I would give a bonus to for the good bluff.

As for the illusion magic...it's basically worthless in combat. By the rules it provides no distraction or anything else to the enemy. Usually illusion magic is used to avoid encounters, it's practically worthless once the fight has started.

oh he didnt say "ebola" he described where the bleeding would come from eyes and .....lower...thanks for the input.


Eh....it doesn't really matter if he sdaid Ebola or described some disease. It really doesn't make a difference for how the Ogres respond.

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