MacFraggin |
Dear fellow DMs,
how would you handle the following situation:
your Kingmaker game has entered the final stage. The party has acquired Briar and the weapon is awakening.
The problem: there's nobody in the party who can really wield it. The only character who is any good at melee is a Paladin who is, by definition, Lawful Good. Once awakened, Briar would impose 1-2 Negative Levels (haven't calculated the Ego score) on any non-chaotic creature wielding it.
The only other character who can wield Martial weapons is also Lawful. There are also two Chaotic party members but they are not Melee, don't have Martial proficiency, and have terrible BAB and Strength scores anyway.
So, the Paladin is really the only one in the party who _could_ use it. But, if the thing imposes Neg Levels, with their attack and save penalties and HP reduction and suppressed spell slots, he won't want to.
The BBEGal is scripted so that she can pretty much only be overcome by Briar.
Considering Neryssa's considerable AC of 51, bonus dilemma points if eating those NegLevels would mean she can only be hit on a 20.
So, what would you do? Enforce the Neg Levels, even though it would frustrate the players and might make the campaign unwinnable?
I'd prefer to offer some way out. Maybe
- allow Death Ward to prevent the Neg Levels
- allow the players to simply _talk_ to the weapon; it is intelligent after all; and convince it to cease its resistance against being wielded by the Pally, since they both share a common goal -- vanquishing Neryssa -- and making it clear that the blade would never fulfil its purpose otherwise.
- OR, as a GM, simply "forget" that intelligent items with incompatible alignments impose negative levels. ;)
Thoughts?
Starbuck_II |
Dear fellow DMs,
how would you handle the following situation:
your Kingmaker game has entered the final stage. The party has acquired Briar and the weapon is awakening.The problem: there's nobody in the party who can really wield it. The only character who is any good at melee is a Paladin who is, by definition, Lawful Good. Once awakened, Briar would impose 1-2 Negative Levels (haven't calculated the Ego score) on any non-chaotic creature wielding it.
The only other character who can wield Martial weapons is also Lawful. There are also two Chaotic party members but they are not Melee, don't have Martial proficiency, and have terrible BAB and Strength scores anyway.
So, the Paladin is really the only one in the party who _could_ use it. But, if the thing imposes Neg Levels, with their attack and save penalties and HP reduction and suppressed spell slots, he won't want to.
The BBEGal is scripted so that she can pretty much only be overcome by Briar.Considering Neryssa's considerable AC of 51, bonus dilemma points if eating those NegLevels would mean she can only be hit on a 20.
So, what would you do? Enforce the Neg Levels, even though it would frustrate the players and might make the campaign unwinnable?
I'd prefer to offer some way out. Maybe
- allow Death Ward to prevent the Neg Levels
- allow the players to simply _talk_ to the weapon; it is intelligent after all; and convince it to cease its resistance against being wielded by the Pally, since they both share a common goal -- vanquishing Neryssa -- and making it clear that the blade would never fulfil its purpose otherwise.
- OR, as a GM, simply "forget" that intelligent items with incompatible alignments impose negative levels. ;)Thoughts?
Death ward, sure.
But remember UMD skill can used to emulate another alignment negating the negative levels for 1 hour. Best to use before picking it up, of course.
Paladins usually have good Cha so not impossible. DC 30 is pretty high though.
Devilkiller |
My PC in Kingmaker had 4 levels of Paladin and a UMD bonus good enough to hit DC 30 every time (mostly a Bard actually). Max ranks in a skill can be pretty easy to get with a headband, and a Circlet of Persuasion can help. It still might not be enough if the PC isn't highly Cha focused like mine was though. Anyhow, maybe in your version of Kingmaker Briar has a different alignment or, as you suggested, is willing to form a distasteful alliance with a PC to get rid of its chosen foe.
Other problems with the sword can be that certain PCs might prefer the special qualities of their own specially chosen weapons to what Briar has to offer. On a more basic level, not everybody wants a bastard sword (like maybe you use a shield or don't feel like being a bastard) - allowing the quest item to transform into whatever weapon the target PC favors or just having it be that sort of weapon to begin with is another way to increase the chances somebody will want to use it
MacFraggin |
The Headband keyed to UMD makes a lot of sense, and it would be a reasonable investment. Otherwise Paladins aren't exactly skill-heavy. ;)
Also, as I read it, _emulating_ an Alignment is not _activating_ an item (since you don't activate a sword), so a Nat1 would not bar the player from trying again.
Where does it actually say you can emulate an alignment only for 1 hour at a time? I can't find any such limitation in the skill description. For all I care, the character might draw the weapon in the morning, keep trying until he makes the UMD check, and put it down at night.
(Maybe the UMD use could actually be RPed as negotiating with the weapon)
Cool, that seems to be the most viable solution then. Thanks everyone!
Other problems with the sword can be that certain PCs might prefer the special qualities of their own specially chosen weapons to what Briar has to offer. On a more basic level, not everybody wants a bastard sword (like maybe you use a shield or don't feel like being a bastard) - allowing the quest item to transform into whatever weapon the target PC favors or just having it be that sort of weapon to begin with is another way to increase the chances somebody will want to use it
Oh yes, do get me started! OK, Kingmaker specifically says that the weapon could and in fact should be a type that the intended wielder prefers to use, but gee, the Paizo guys seem to really have a thing for Bastard Swords. :p
The idea about the item being able to change shape (type) is really nice. I'll think about that. ^^
Of course, this being Kingmaker, the players have nice, custom-crafted items already, so they probably won't care to use Briar until they have to, anyway.
Spatula |
I would say, change the sword's properties to fit your group. It's a plot-essential item that they have to use to beat Nyrissa, so alter it in a way that lets the melee character wield it effectively. In my game, we currently have 2 melee types - a greatsword-wielding warpriest and an Aldori dueling sword-wielding swashbuckler. Since the warpriest is Lawful and the swashbuckler is Chaotic, I'll probably keep the alignment component, and change it from a bastard sword to a dueling sword. Should we get that far, that is.
Uqbarian |
- allow the players to simply _talk_ to the weapon; it is intelligent after all; and convince it to cease its resistance against being wielded by the Pally, since they both share a common goal -- vanquishing Neryssa -- and making it clear that the blade would never fulfil its purpose otherwise.
This would be my preferred solution. As a related example, consider Suishen, the intelligent katana in Jade Regent. Suishen is NG, but it will allow any member of the Amatatsu family to wield it without negative levels, regardless of alignment, as long as they uphold the family's honour.
anlume |
You know what? It will be much more epic that way! The paladin will have to wield a weapon which he probably hates, or at least he would never want to use that, but he has to because that's the only way to stop Nyrissa! The players will probably remember that fight forever, and the fact that one of them was fighting under level drain because that was the only way makes it damn epic. Don't be afraid: at that level, having 1 party member slightly weaker is not an issue at all... and I'm sure the party will prepare even better for the fight knowing that the paladin starts with a disadvantage