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Immonhiel Celestial Obedience


Rules Questions


7 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

I was doing some reading for a new character and found this Empyreal Lord. Seemed pretty interesting, but I was very confused by the second boon.

"2: Swamp Healer (Sp) You can cast empowered heal 1/day."

Now, to my knowledge, Empowered does nothing on Heal as it has no Variable effects (Dice Rolls). So is this just Heal with a useless Metamagic slapped on?

If you feel it's weird, I recomend hitting the FAQ button.


I would just treat it as 15 per caster level.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Trish Megistos wrote:
I would just treat it as 15 per caster level.

While houserules are fine, I would like to know if there is any rules precedent of this being able to work as written (And I would definitely encourage it to be 15 per caster level, going to a max of 225).


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I recall a couple of other metamagic boons in that book that don't work, like Silent on SLAs that don't have verbal components.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

TrinitysEnd wrote:
Trish Megistos wrote:
I would just treat it as 15 per caster level.
While houserules are fine, I would like to know if there is any rules precedent of this being able to work as written (And I would definitely encourage it to be 15 per caster level, going to a max of 225).

There is no RAW. RAW is based on interpretation.

It's not hard to understand they writer intended 15 per caster level.

If you read the various FAQ, a majority of them had a thread where people differed over the meaning of RAW. Most of the FAQ didn't change wording, only interpretation. We probably don't need a FAQ here, as this isn't frequent and we get what they are saying.


James Risner wrote:
TrinitysEnd wrote:
Trish Megistos wrote:
I would just treat it as 15 per caster level.
While houserules are fine, I would like to know if there is any rules precedent of this being able to work as written (And I would definitely encourage it to be 15 per caster level, going to a max of 225).

There is no RAW. RAW is based on interpretation.

It's not hard to understand they writer intended 15 per caster level.

If you read the various FAQ, a majority of them had a thread where people differed over the meaning of RAW. Most of the FAQ didn't change wording, only interpretation. We probably don't need a FAQ here, as this isn't frequent and we get what they are saying.

Rules precedent would be other examples of similar cases (Not just strictly a rule saying yes this works or no it doesn't). Now you are probably right that this doesn't need an FAQ, but it'd be nice. The intent is kind of clear, but I feel the writer wasn't aware the mechanics didn't work and it happened to slip by the desks.

It would still be nice to have a Dev weigh in.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
TrinitysEnd wrote:

I was doing some reading for a new character and found this Empyreal Lord. Seemed pretty interesting, but I was very confused by the second boon.

"2: Swamp Healer (Sp) You can cast empowered heal 1/day."

Now, to my knowledge, Empowered does nothing on Heal as it has no Variable effects (Dice Rolls). So is this just Heal with a useless Metamagic slapped on?

If you feel it's weird, I recomend hitting the FAQ button.

**EDIT**

Empower Spell wrote:

All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half, including bonuses to those dice rolls.

Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables.

I take what I said before back; the bolded portion means an Empowered Heal does nothing different compared to a regular Heal.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
TrinitysEnd wrote:

I was doing some reading for a new character and found this Empyreal Lord. Seemed pretty interesting, but I was very confused by the second boon.

"2: Swamp Healer (Sp) You can cast empowered heal 1/day."

Now, to my knowledge, Empowered does nothing on Heal as it has no Variable effects (Dice Rolls). So is this just Heal with a useless Metamagic slapped on?

If you feel it's weird, I recomend hitting the FAQ button.

**EDIT**

Empower Spell wrote:

All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half, including bonuses to those dice rolls.

Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables.

I take what I said before back; the bolded portion means an Empowered Heal does nothing different compared to a regular Heal.

Correct, which is why I would like it clarified that this does do something. So I ask that you please hit the FAQ or spread the word or something!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

They don't FAQ stuff like this, but if you somehow get 100+ people to care then maybe.

FWIW, I summarized all of the metamagic errors in this book here.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Yeah, they aren't gonna change anything unless the content is associated with Hardcover material.

The only time I know of when this happened is when people FAQ'd things like Potion Glutton, which also got Accelerated Drinker involved (which was Hardcover material), and they decided to hit two birds with one stone since they were related.

At best, you'll get them to errata their Empower FAQ to state that effects which don't involve random elements like dice rolls can't be used with Empower, and the Deific Obedience is still going to be broken.

That being said, even getting the ability to cast Heal 1/day is pretty damn powerful; Empowering it is just overkill in my honest opinion.


Doesn't hurt to try. Don't speak up and you won't be heard which is the same response as trying and failing. So I'm willing to try to get this corrected to be something usable or have it just be heal.

The worst is that I can say I tried.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Actually they've lifted the "Don't FAQ things from softcovers" rule. I believe PFS Additonal Resources plays a part in it but they can in fact be FAQed.


Rysky wrote:
Actually they've lifted the "Don't FAQ things from softcovers" rule. I believe PFS Additonal Resources plays a part in it but they can in fact be FAQed.

That is good to know! And even more incentive to try to go for this! Thank you for the insight!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Np.

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