Harmless and Non-Harmless

[gnrrrg]

For psychic magic we are told in Occult Adventures:

"Emotion Components: Emotion components represent a particular emotional state required to cast the spell. A psychic spellcaster marshals her desire in order to focus and release the spell's energy. It is impossible to cast a spell with an emotion component while the spellcaster is under the influence of a non-harmless effect with the emotion or fear descriptors. Even if the effect's emotion matches the necessary emotion to cast the psychic spell, the spellcaster is not in control of her own desires and animal impulses, which is a necessary part of providing an emotion component."

Does "non-harmless" mean causing hp or ability damage or does it account for other effects?

Specifically, I am thinking of the shaken condition (but there are possibly other conditions that may raise the same question). It is described as a fear condition. It gives you penalties, but doesn't do physical damage. Some people would argue that taking penalties is harmful others would argue that it isn't. Would a psychic caster be able to cast spells with the emotion component while shaken?

[SlimGauge]

In this context, "non-harmless" means without the (harmless) descriptor in the Saving Throw section of the spell description.

From the PRD, "(harmless): The spell is usually beneficial, not harmful, but a targeted creature can attempt a saving throw if it desires."

[Claxon]

You definitely cannot cast spells with the emotion component while shaken, this has actually come up and been addressed before. You need a special ability to get over this hurdle.

As for what harmless means, it is only listed in the context of spells, but it actually a designation that you will see next to the saving throw line. Such as Cure Light Wounds.

[KingOfAnything]

Specifying "non-harmless" means that psychic casters can benefit from spells such as good hope without shutting down their spellcasting.

[Murdock Mudeater]

SlimGauge wrote:

In this context, "non-harmless" means without the (harmless) descriptor in the Saving Throw section of the spell description.

From the PRD, "(harmless): The spell is usually beneficial, not harmful, but a targeted creature can attempt a saving throw if it desires."

I tend to think of the "(Harmless)" note on spells to be there only for player reference, but not actually a part of the spell. It's the spells effect on the target that determines if the spell is harmless or not.

For example, cure light wounds is listed Harmless, but if your characters heals as undead, Harmless is an entirely misleading descriptor. I would consider the "(Harmless)" feature to be removed from such spells when targeting those harmed by them.

Likewise, I would add the "(Harmless)" feature to castings of Inflict Light Wounds when the target heals as undead.

Otherwise, you run into weird situations where the caster attempts, in good faith, to "cure" the ally harmed by cure spells, who doesn't get a save unless they pass a spellcraft check to know that their ally's spell actually has harmful functions.