Legendary Item Undetectable Ability


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

So I'm playing a mythic campaign with a stealthy character and I am real interested in the Undetectable ability. The problem is my GM says it does not work as I think it does. Am I wrong in believing that when it says you're undectable it trumps truesight and senses like blindsight, scent, and tremorsense? He says all those things can still find me when I'm invisible with the undectable status. I'm okay with truesight overriding it but everything esle should not trump it in my opinion. Does anyone know where there is a specific ruling by the paizo team or better clarification that addresses this issue?


AFAICT the wording is clear and you are reading it correctly. But I'm curious what the GM thinks it does prevent, if not those things. Does he think it's the same as mind blank, preventing only divination spells?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

That's about it Divination magic and spells like Detect Evil and the like


Point out that if it was that they would just say "this gives you mind blank."


As per RAW, yes, Undetectable blocks all forms of detection when procced by invisibility.

Undetectable wrote:
Undetectable: This grants its bonded user the ability to become utterly undetectable while invisible. While invisible and in physical contact with this item, the bonded creature can’t be detected or scryed by any method.

Pretty clear that it blocks any and all forms of detection while the item is in contact with an invisible bonded user.

That being said, this ability is absurdly overpowered.

Talk to your GM about it. As per RAW, you're correct, it trumps quite literally "any method" of detection or scrying.


While not a formal FAQ ruling, there was a developer post on this very subject.

I will note that I ended up banning it and foe-biting 3/4s of the way through Wrath of the Righteous because they were simply too powerful. All of my group supported the decision.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I agree it's overpowered, so I'm okay with him saying truesight trumps it. However I've given him the RAW and he just focuses on the scrying and makes that the core of it's ability. I was hoping there was another official place o could quote to convince him.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I agree it's overpowered, so I'm okay with him saying truesight trumps it. However I've given him the RAW and he just focuses on the scrying and makes that the core of it's ability. I was hoping there was another official place I could quote to convince him.


As a GM who's run a mythic character with that power, I think it would work on various special senses... but I also think it's too strong of an ability for a stealth-focused character to have, especially if they have access to something like Greater Invisibility. That's pretty much a cheat code even by Mythic standards, since it makes it very hard to adequately challenge a character without tons of extra work.

Honestly, my advice to your GM would be to not allow that power for any stealthy character, instead encouraging something like Display of Dexterity (which can give you a great boost to your stealth, but not to the point you're near-invincible and not for free), or perhaps a nice Legendary Surge if you wanted to keep the item. Undetectable really is disruptive, and I would not blame your GM in the slightest if he wanted to put some limits on that. Being hidden from divination powers is still pretty useful if you have smart enemies, after all. (And I suppose an argument for his view could certainly be made, if you read "Detected" to mean "Detect X powers and similar abilities.")


The homebrewed response I ended up using for a mythic campaign I've been GMing is to allow Undetectable to trump any and all methods of detection, but not with guaranteed success.

All I did was change it as follows.

Homebrewed Undetectable: While invisible and in physical contact with this item, the bonded creature can’t be scryed by any method. The bonded creature may also attempt stealth checks against special senses such as blindsense, tremorsense, scent, and other abilities that normally preclude such an action. This check is made at no penalty.

IE: The bonded character can't be scryed while invisible, and may still attempt stealth against creatures with special senses or other forms of special detection. The invisibility with Undetectable just "turns off" the special sense for lack of a better phrase.

No I don't also give the player a +20 bonus for being invisible on the stealth roll, that's for non-special senses that Undetectable doesn't affect.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Besides a high dex and stealth I'm not too stealthy. I'm. A brawler who wanted to use nightmare fists and moonlight stalker feats. No precision dmg from me. Though I did dip 1 level in shadow dancer for hide in plain sight. Thank God he says that is useable against truesight


Undetectable is beyond broken and banned in both the games I run and the games I play in.

Undetectable is worded as an absolute. By RAW, nothing beats it. Not true seeing, not tremor sense, not the gods.


I've got a question, should not this ability be better than Mindblank? Some of these suggestions make Mindblank the better option.


I've got 2 characters in my Wrath of the Righteous campaign who've picked up that ability on legendary items. I've ruled that it blocks all attempts to detect invisibility that would normally be used to penetrate/foil invisibility itself - meaning spells like see invisible, glitter dust, and including true sight. I do not prevent other methods of detection like scent, sound, and tremorsense without the spending of a mythic point.

Otherwise, the power for the item is pretty ridiculous.

Overall, this is the one and only mythic campaign I'll run.


quirthanon wrote:
I've got a question, should not this ability be better than Mindblank? Some of these suggestions make Mindblank the better option.

Mind Blank is an 8th-level spell. Undetectable is something characters can get as early as their first Mythic Tier - what level that is can vary, of course, but in a mythic game they could probably have it by 4th or 5th level, possibly even earlier.

Even for a mythic game, Mind Blank probably should be better in at least some ways. I mean, if Undetectable was a Major Artifact ability, that would be one thing - then people couldn't get it any earlier than 6th tier. As it stands, though, I don't think any early-access ability should be measurably superior to late-game powers. Not like this, at least.


A house rule to make the ability useful but not LOL overpowered might base it on the newish spell Impenetrable Veil. Gives a bonus to Stealth (your tier?), can always attempt a Stealth check, even when observed, and can use Stealth to beat special senses like Blindsight. Divination spells must make a caster check against a DC of your Stealth check.

It's a 9th level spell with an expensive component, so not too off the mark for a mythic ability.

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