Hey, so a quick question about the traits:
Driven by Guilt: Would this stack with smite evil?
True Devotion
Is it intended that paladins can't take this trait, as reading through the lines, once they find out what they've done, they will need to atone?
If paladins should be able to take it, what would be a better way to word the "Must be able to cast divine spells?"
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Hey, so a quick question about the traits:
Driven by Guilt: Would this stack with smite evil?
True Devotion
Is it intended that paladins can't take this trait, as reading through the lines, once they find out what they've done, they will need to atone?
If paladins should be able to take it, what would be a better way to word the "Must be able to cast divine spells?"
Driven By Guilt: This one can't stack with smite unless you can find a way to get an additional swift action, because activating this trait and smite evil both require a swift action.
True Devotion: This one was created specifically for characters playing clerics or paladins. It's basically your god saying, "Don't worry about your recent past. Dust yourself off and go kick some cosmic evil ass." No later atonement needed. Also, your quote for the spellcasting requirement is incorrect. The trait only requires you to be of a class that is capable of casting divine spells, which a paladin (or ranger) qualifies for.
Well, what I was thinking about is smite the first round, and then use this the second, to possibly get +2x CHA bonus on attacks and +2x Level on damage for a round.
Thank you for the clarification on true devotion, I very much misread it the first go around.
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Not sure if/when we're going to tackle this AP but I'd like to discuss an idea I have for character creation/getting them started.
I've enjoyed playing Planescape: Torment in the days past and liked it very much.
The main character in this old video/PC game regains consciousness in a similar environment (a morgue) and suffers from amnesia.
This feeling and atmosphere I'd like to recreate.
I'd like to take the fugue state one step further and have the players create their PCs using a NPC class as their first level.
As a rough scaffold I thought: martial classes (figther, ranger, paladin, barbarian) take the warrior/aristocrat class, the roguish classes (rogue, bard, ...) take expert/commoner, the casters (cleric, mage, sorc, ...) take adept.
Either they keep this extra lvl throughout the campaign or they prepare second character sheet with their intended PC classes.
Thoughts?
Ruyan.
Not sure if/when we're going to tackle this AP but I'd like to discuss an idea I have for character creation/getting them started.
I've enjoyed playing Planescape: Torment in the days past and liked it very much.
The main character in this old video/PC game regains consciousness in a similar environment (a morgue) and suffers from amnesia.This feeling and atmosphere I'd like to recreate.
I'd like to take the fugue state one step further and have the players create their PCs using a NPC class as their first level.
As a rough scaffold I thought: martial classes (figther, ranger, paladin, barbarian) take the warrior/aristocrat class, the roguish classes (rogue, bard, ...) take expert/commoner, the casters (cleric, mage, sorc, ...) take adept.
Either they keep this extra lvl throughout the campaign or they prepare second character sheet with their intended PC classes.
Thoughts?
Ruyan.
NPC classes might be a little far for my tastes, but my current plan whenever I run this is to restrict players to classes that don't have a full progression of either BAB or spellcasting.
Seems, I deleted some content while editing back and forth...
The players would only play the asylum part of book 1 using the NPC classes (haven't read the first installment yet so I don't know how long it is)/up to a certain point in book 1, then they switch to theire real PCs or gain a level and add their first level of PC class to their NPC level.
The idea behind is to add to the amnesia feeling.
Another thing for me would be to have the PCs find their gear while exploring/escaping, same for possible ACs or familiars (they'd be used for ...other experiments/kept in cages or similar).
BTW: does anybody know whether Torment runs under Win10? *grins*
Ruyan.
Fuge or dissociative states are funny things. You don't remember the things that give you, the person, context, but you don't lose your skills, so the NPC class idea is less realistic (and likely dangerous to the characters).
For example, abused woman enters a dissociative state and wanders away from home. She doesn't remember her name, address, the fact that she was married, her sister or any of her family, or even the state where she lives. However, she knows what money is, what a bus is, and that she needs to pay for the ticket to Chicago, which she also knows what it is and its context in the world (but not its context in her life, if any). She knows what a job is and that she needs one, gets a job cleaning houses, knows all the products and how to use them. She buys a car and knows how to drive it.
But she can't tell you a thing about her life before the fuge.
EDIT: Based on what I gathered from the Player Guide, the PCs were forced to do something so heinous that they entered a dissociative state (emotionally protecting themselves from their psychological trauma).
Fuge or dissociative states are funny things. You don't remember the things that give you, the person, context, but you don't lose your skills, so the NPC class idea is less realistic (and likely dangerous to the characters).
For example, abused woman enters a dissociative state and wanders away from home. She doesn't remember her name, address, the fact that she was married, her sister or any of her family, or even the state where she lives. However, she knows what money is, what a bus is, and that she needs to pay for the ticket to Chicago, which she also knows what it is and its context in the world (but not its context in her life, if any). She knows what a job is and that she needs one, gets a job cleaning houses, knows all the products and how to use them. She buys a car and knows how to drive it.
But she can't tell you a thing about her life before the fuge.
EDIT: Based on what I gathered from the Player Guide, the PCs were forced to do something so heinous that they entered a dissociative state (emotionally protecting themselves from their psychological trauma).
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NPC classes might be a little far for my tastes, but my current plan whenever I run this is to restrict players to classes that don't have a full progression of either BAB or spellcasting.Not sure if/when we're going to tackle this AP but I'd like to discuss an idea I have for character creation/getting them started.
I've enjoyed playing Planescape: Torment in the days past and liked it very much.
The main character in this old video/PC game regains consciousness in a similar environment (a morgue) and suffers from amnesia.This feeling and atmosphere I'd like to recreate.
I'd like to take the fugue state one step further and have the players create their PCs using a NPC class as their first level.
As a rough scaffold I thought: martial classes (figther, ranger, paladin, barbarian) take the warrior/aristocrat class, the roguish classes (rogue, bard, ...) take expert/commoner, the casters (cleric, mage, sorc, ...) take adept.
Either they keep this extra lvl throughout the campaign or they prepare second character sheet with their intended PC classes.
Thoughts?
Ruyan.
If I'm getting to run this AP, the start will play out different than in a normal campaign.
The players won't get to prepare characters until after the first two scenes (dream and escape from the cells), as for most of that numbers aren't all that needed/can be fudged enough to come by.
Once they are out and have found the equipment-sacks, they can sort of take inventory on the items and themselves, and build their 'blank slate' characters.
The players won't get to prepare characters until after the first two scenes (dream and escape from the cells), as for most of that numbers aren't all that needed/can be fudged enough to come by.
Once they are out and have found the equipment-sacks, they can sort of take inventory on the items and themselves, and build their 'blank slate' characters.
That's an interesting idea; one I might pursue if I remember in 4 years when I might run this. Could be a fun approach, like in Skyrim, or that 0-level module for AD&D (Something Island of Castanamir? I don't remember.)
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My players trust me enough to make their characters for them. That makes the opening really fun.
Hey, so I just placed my order in for the AP a few days ago. I subscribed so i should get the pdf soon too, but my players are bugging me with questions about what is and is not allowed in the campaign. Does the AP lay out any additional character creation guidelines? sort of how the players guide, gives advice on playing a psychic class. Or is everything they need to make their characters in the players guide?
Everything you need is in the PG.
On a side note, when my players first heard about this AP, they all talked about classes from Occult Adventures. After reading the PG and the first book, I believe (and they agreed), that playing more mundane classes will be more fun. Like a wilderness survival adventure without a ranger and/or druid. Sometimes it is more fun and challenging to not be the best suited for the job.
My players trust me enough to make their characters for them. That makes the opening really fun.
That sounds like a very immersive style that fits in well with the AP. Good job if you can pull it off.
Some players will balk at "surrendering" control of their characters, though. If other GMs want to use this method, you may want to discuss letting your players select certain aspects (race and basic concept/party role*, at a minimum; possibly even down to class/archetype and the majority of feats/skills), so that they feel generally "comfortable" in their character from the start; even if there are a few surprises. One thing that they should choose themselves (unless they really trust their GM) is their campaign trait.
Based on the campaign outline, the characters should regain their memories around 9th-10th level. One way to extend the style is for the GM to level up the PCs for the players for at least a portion of that, as they "discover" old abilities that "they already know." It will also allow the GM to slip in critical things (such as specific feats, skills, and spell choices) that will make the PCs' job easier in future encounters, hopefully without feeling too heavy-handed.
*- archer, blaster, melee tank, support caster, etc.
will there be hunchbacks in this AP? There must be hunchbacks
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yeah, the first thing i did after reading the PG was ban all but the core races. I want everything to feel strange and alien, and thats a little hard to do when one of the party members is a Vishkanya Samurai wizard. wasn't sure if there were any other recommended bans or limits to enhance the atmosphere of the campaign.
yeah, the first thing i did after reading the PG was ban all but the core races. I want everything to feel strange and alien, and thats a little hard to do when one of the party members is a Vishkanya Samurai wizard. wasn't sure if there were any other recommended bans or limits to enhance the atmosphere of the campaign.
Agreed. I'm keeping the PCs limited to core races and classes that don't have direct ties to the Mythos. I don't want to have someone who's been studying planar monsters all their life.
But, this is what works for my group. As long as your group is having fun, you're doing it right.
We had our first session yesterday, and it was a doozy (they got all the way to the end of chapter 1, although it looks like chapter 1 is by far the smallest of the 3). My players mostly get their spooky sensations from being reminded that death is a very real consequence, even on Golarion, so the Doctor Oathsday fight delivered perfectly (our group uses 15-point buy in all of our campaigns, so it was a little rough). The PCs actually skipped Doctor Latchke (they're very loud so both doppelgangers had plenty of time to disguise themselves) and ended up fighting him after Oathsday, which meant that I had to pull some punches (they were all at extremely low HP, even for 1st level, when they encountered him). For character creation decisions, I let my PCs be whatever they wanted (within reason, so no androids or overly wacky stuff like that) so one of them is even a Kitsune Slayer who thought it would be a good idea to spend his gold on a horse that he won't even be able to use for almost the entire first module.
how many points are you guys giving your players for point buy? I was thinking 15 and fave 4 players. didnt want them to be to powerful running through a horror campaign. at the same time i dont want them to die all the time, cause thats lame and no one will have any fun.
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how many points are you guys giving your players for point buy? I was thinking 15 and fave 4 players. didnt want them to be to powerful running through a horror campaign. at the same time i dont want them to die all the time, cause thats lame and no one will have any fun.
I think the adventure paths assume a 15 point buy, but using a 20 point buy doesn't make much difference in my experience.
Personally I'll be using my own system based on harrow cards. Draw an array of nine cards (if you want you can lay them out and do a reading as well), each card represent a different ability score as described in the harrow rules. After drawing the cards assign an array of 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 in any order then add the points from the harrow reading on a one to one basis. No ability score can go above 18 before racial modifiers. For a more heroic Campaign I use an array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 instead. This keeps some control in the hands of the player but also adds some randomness and as a bonus you can use the cards to inspire a backstory for the character.
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how many points are you guys giving your players for point buy? I was thinking 15 and fave 4 players. didnt want them to be to powerful running through a horror campaign. at the same time i dont want them to die all the time, cause thats lame and no one will have any fun.I think the adventure paths assume a 15 point buy, but using a 20 point buy doesn't make much difference in my experience.
Personally I'll be using my own system based on harrow cards. Draw an array of nine cards (if you want you can lay them out and do a reading as well), each card represent a different ability score as described in the harrow rules. After drawing the cards assign an array of 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 in any order then add the points from the harrow reading on a one to one basis. No ability score can go above 18 before racial modifiers. For a more heroic Campaign I use an array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 instead. This keeps some control in the hands of the player but also adds some randomness and as a bonus you can use the cards to inspire a backstory for the character.
And I'll be making a note of that for later. That sounds _really_ cool.
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how many points are you guys giving your players for point buy? I was thinking 15 and fave 4 players. didnt want them to be to powerful running through a horror campaign. at the same time i dont want them to die all the time, cause thats lame and no one will have any fun.None. My players are going to roll dice :D.
Probably the 7d6 method (as tought to me yb a bloke who lived 'round the corner back in the 90's) or the 24d6 method.
The 7d6 method is easy. It allows for a controlled rolling method without the extreme control of point buy. You roll 7d6. Drop the lowest. Assign one to every ability score. Then you roll the same 7d6 again, drop the lowest assign (but not before assigning the first 6 numbers that you set). Finally you roll the last batch of dice, drop the lowest and assign.
This way you're not pre-assigning dice. A lot of people want to roll all 3 sets and then assign them but that's not in the spirit of the 7d6 system. You essentially get to build and prioritise as you go with enough randomness to avoid the repetitive cookie cutter builds that point buy tends to generate or the extreme variety of 3d6 rolled in order.
It's a nice and simple system. I like it. If the players aren't feeling in the mood for it then we'll use the 24d6 method from the core rulebook so that they can pre-assign dice instead.
Super cool with the 7d6 - I didn't not know that one. Having tried many different ways since starting playing back in the days, so thanks for sharing :-)
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It looks like a standard Cleric would be a good idea for this AP, since they excel at healing and removing various conditions. And, there are Haunts to deal with, and channeling is perfect for dealing with them.
Also, I might consider a Rogue for this one. All those skills, plus Disable Device, are REALLY handy for the first adventure, In Search of Sanity. Been reading through the module.
Also, I would definitely recommend all the PC's, even those with good Will saves, to take Iron Will. Horror and sanity tend to depend on Will saves in Pathfinder.
I'd love to try out a Warpriest for this AP, specifically a warpriest of Sarenrae, but wanted to ask a question: the "True Devotion" trait only mentions one additional use of a domain power or inquisition power per day. Do y'all think it'd be fair to allow a player one additional use of Blessing per day since Warpriests don't use traditional a traditional domain/inquisition?
Question, I was thinking about playing a Guildbreaker(ranger archetype). Would the Cult of Hastur or the Yellow King fall under the favored organization? Thanks.
Question, I was thinking about playing a Guildbreaker(ranger archetype). Would the Cult of Hastur or the Yellow King fall under the favored organization? Thanks.
I suppose. Although why he/she would be against a cult they don't know about might be weird. If it works for you and yours, go for it.
I suppose. Although why he/she would be against a cult they don't know about might be weird. If it works for you and yours, go for it.
That came up in discussions with my DM and we were thinking maybe it could work into his backstory, that that was one of the things lost to him. And as he battled this mysterious cult he had a strange feeling that he knew more about them than he could remember. Something along those lines.
What confuses me...
The PCs are referred to as "thugs" in Count Lowls' employ. Given what we know about Lowls' descent into eccentricity over the past few years from Rule of Fear, how would any honorable sorts come to hold such positions? One of my players has expressed an interest in playing a Sacred Shield paladin, but I can't quite factor a means of working such a character into employment by this massively ignoble noble.
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Does it get mentioned anywhere near enough how awesome it is that you and others hang out and answer questions on these boards? Man, it's a wonderful time to be a gamer. Thanks for the assurance!
What confuses me...
The PCs are referred to as "thugs" in Count Lowls' employ. Given what we know about Lowls' descent into eccentricity over the past few years from Rule of Fear, how would any honorable sorts come to hold such positions? One of my players has expressed an interest in playing a Sacred Shield paladin, but I can't quite factor a means of working such a character into employment by this massively ignoble noble.
Here is another idea: The mentioned PC wasn't a paladin before... He could be a simple fighter/thug, which would provide him with good martial skills. When he wakes up and gets 'his' items back, it is pretty reasonable that among the pile of garbage or inside the valuable property sack there would be a holy symbol (belonging to a lost NPC) and in his desperation to find more about himself, he resorted to the gods.
He could even be a fallen paladin that was given another chance now that his memory is gone.
What confuses me...
The PCs are referred to as "thugs" in Count Lowls' employ. Given what we know about Lowls' descent into eccentricity over the past few years from Rule of Fear, how would any honorable sorts come to hold such positions? One of my players has expressed an interest in playing a Sacred Shield paladin, but I can't quite factor a means of working such a character into employment by this massively ignoble noble.
One of my players will be playing a paladin as well.
This is the way I'm handling it:We always talk about a paladin "falling" and becoming an anti-paladin.
This time, she WAS an anti-paladin, and after the incident and the lack of memories, she has been saved by one of the gods, to be remolded and used as a tool against evil.
After Adam said, "Officially it's left vague so that GMs and players can construct their own stories and reasons," I feel confident in going forward with my first idea: I'm making all pregen characters. When my players come to the first session, I'll have a resume for each of the characters with a face pic, a brief physical description, and the full text of the PC's two traits. No more.
I won't actually start the campaign at least until the 4th book comes out so I know I don't paint myself into any impossible corners.
Well, what I was thinking about is smite the first round, and then use this the second, to possibly get +2x CHA bonus on attacks and +2x Level on damage for a round.
Thank you for the clarification on true devotion, I very much misread it the first go around.
You can't add the same stat twice, so no charisma x2 bonus.
Adding twice the levels to damage is trickier. If you consider both the same source (ie : smite evil), you can't add the same bonus from the same source twice. This would be the same than a celestial template dude with lvls of paladin trying to stack paladin's and celestial's smites, or a paladin of higher level trying to apply Smite Evil twice to the same target in two consecutive rounds
I have the first four books, but haven't read them quite cover to cover yet.
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I have the first four books, but haven't read them quite cover to cover yet.
** spoiler omitted **
*I'm going to depart from the spoilering, because this thread is labeled as GM reference.*
If what you mean by when the PCs' backgrounds "jump on the rails" is when they get their memories back, then that occurs at the end of the third adventure. The details of the PCs working for Lowls is largely left open and up to you and your group. The foreword for Pathfinder #111 and #112 have some suggestions about this (and #111 has an expansion of the campaign traits if you wish to use that). There are dozens of ways that the PCs could have ended up in that situation ranging from willing complicity to magically induced compulsion.
My advice would be to find the best way to tailor the situation to each PC in a way that can be both slightly disturbing and motivational. In an ideal situation, the PCs should be weirded out by how things transpired and angry enough to track that crackpot Lowls to the ends of the earth to get revenge (or answers). Not every explanation flips those switches for every player and PC, and you know your players and their characters better than me.
If you're just starting to run this campaign and are trying to figure out how the PCs ended up in Lowls' employ, make sure to seed hints and experiences into the narrative leading up to the end of the third adventure once you figure out how each of them ended up in that situation. That'll certainly heighten the experience.