Strange Aeons 'Characters with Flaws' Question

[darker_phoenix]

I'm going to be running the Strange Aeons AP soon, after I've had a chance to read through everything. I'm super pumped and I love how steeped in theme the AP is.

I read through the player's handbook and noticed one section encouraged players to build characters with flaws. As I've grown to know Pathfinder (and pen and paper RPGs in general) I've come to realize what's interesting in them isn't what you can do, but what you can't do. In that regard, I was happy to see that section in the handbook because that mantra is especially true of the horror genre.

I've also been reading some people's reviews of Strange Aeons and I've noticed them say that groups with PCs that are murder hobos and/or munchkins likely won't get as much out of the AP due to how theme driven it is and how the horror genre tends to work.

Lots of setup; here's my question. What exactly does that mean? How should players limit themselves when building characters? I assume a paladin who is immune to fear is probably a bad fit for this kind of game. What about a barbarian with the superstition rage power? Or are clerics that use spells like calm emotions not a good fit? I just don't really know how to encourage my players to build characters in order to become really steeped in the genre.

I guess this is probably a divisive question or one that's likely to produce a variety of answers; that's cool. Lots of thanks in advance for your help!

Edit: Not sure if this is the best place in the forums for this question; if this is out of place let me know and I'll delete this post and repost elsewhere. Thanks!

[Saldiven]

I'm playing in Strange Aeons right now.

I decided to model my character after Renfield from the Dracula stories. He's a pawn of the darker powers, but serves a self-sacrificing heroic purpose in the end.

(Mechanically, the character is an unwitting Cleric of Azathoth with the Elder Mythos Cultist archetype. He doesn't know where is powers come from, only that he's had these babbling, incoherent voices in his head as long as he can remember. He's CN, but in the mad-as-a-hatter mold, not the screw over the party mold. Fundamentally a decent person, but torn between instinctive self preservation and a fatalism fueled by the nihilistic belief that we're all just going to die, anyway. My hope in the role playing through the adventure is that he slowly comes to realize the source of his abilities, which drives him even further into madness. Additionally, he's summoning focused. Everything he summons is re-skinned into some horrible beastie fit for a Cthulhu themed horror adventure; the summoned eagle appears as a insect winged collection of mis-matched mandibles; the dire rat appears as a flopping mass of writhing tentacles that sprouts mouths at random intervals; etc.)

Oh, and as for a built in weakness, the archetype makes the character automatically fail saves versus the spells Confusion, Nightmare, and Insanity and "similar effects." He's already insane, so it makes sense that he'd succumb more easily to such things.

[Link2000]

Our group decided to take this AP into a "survival" game from the get go. Usually our group does a 20 point buy, but this time we went to 15. Also we decided to steer away from classes that were strictly immune to fear or had many ways to undermine it and limited our race to human. We also had to take one drawback without the bonus trait.

It's been fun, every fight being tooth and nail. We have a Warpriest, an Inquisitor, an Invetigator, and a Wizard.

As for advice, I would just about ban paladins if for nothing else but to keep the theme strong. Having a drawback (with or without the extra trait based off group) will help the player's have some sort of weakness built in. And lastly have the player's name off at least one fear that their character has. Give them a small penalty (shaken or dazzled) if they come across that fear, nothing too detrimental though.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Here's a system I posted back in November on the Strange Aeons subforum. I used it IMC and the players liked it. YMMV.

* * * * *
I love the amnesia aspect of ISoS. What I don't like so much: that the PCs, after the opening encounter, immediately find all their stuff and start off pretty much unscathed. I think the horror aspect is likely to be ramped up if the PCs have a more realistic "wake up naked in an asylum" experience. Yes, ISoS is a pretty tough module. But I have a party of six, so I'm okay with handicapping them a little. I think this system would also work with four 20-point characters (since the module assumes 15 points).

Before starting, I'm going to tell the players that they have six Starting Points, which they can distribute among four categories: Stuff, Physical, Mental, and Fugue. They can spend up to three points in each category -- so, for instance, a PC might start with Stuff 2, Physical 3, Mental 1, and Fugue 0. What I'll tell the PCs: "Stuff 3 means you start with lots of stuff. Physical 3 means you're in great physical shape, Mental 3 same. Fugue 3, you have the least possible effects from the fugue. Lower numbers are less good." No details beyond that.

So what will these mean? Well:

Stuff:

Stuff 3: You find all your starting equipment in the first room. Since your character used to be a favored servant of Lowls, I will add a useful item of up to 2,000 gp value into your stuff... a magic weapon, minor magic item, a spellbook with extra spells up to fourth level, or the like. Your stuff will also contain a clue to your past (embroidered initials on fine clothing, or some such.)

Stuff 2: You find all your starting equipment in the first room. It's the normal equipment for a 1st level PC, with no clues.

Stuff 1: The DM determines one item that is definitely present -- a weapon, spellbook, or holy symbol, whatever the character most needs. Everything else, have the player go down his character sheet and roll: 50% chance it's there, otherwise it's marked "missing". Missing items will be found with Winter and the refugees, and can be claimed as soon as they trust the PC (attitude friendly or better).

Stuff 0: You got nothin'. You'll find one critical item (as above, weapon or spellbook) in the possession of the first ghoul or doppelganger you encounter in area B. After that, the refugees may have some of your stuff: roll for everything else, 50% there, 50% lost forever.

Physical:

Physical 3: You were dosed with a powerful stimulant that will temporarily increase either your Con or your Dex by +4. The stimulant wears off four hours after you wake up.

Physical 2: You're fine.

Physical 1: You have an injury (half your hp) that also affects your movement: either one arm isn't working, or you're at -10' on your move. The latter effect will disappear once you have healed the hp AND have a night's good rest (i.e., in the chapel... there's no good rest anywhere else).

Physical 0: You have the Sickened condition, and will have it until you have a night's good rest AND someone makes a DC 15 Heal check on you. You also have either a disease or an addiction (DM's choice); if a disease, you're already past the incubation period.

Mental:

Mental 3: You awake with your mind strangely clear and strong. You are immune to San damage for the next four hours. If not using the Sanity system, then you gain +4 on Will saves for the next four hours.

Mental 2: You're fine.

Mental 1: You're disoriented and distracted. You are at -4 to either Wis or Cha,and whenever confronted with a stressful situation (such as combat) you must make a DC 15 Will save in order to place yourself in danger. (If you fail the Will save by 5 or more, you can do nothing but cower.) You can retry the Will save each round; once it's made, you can act normally for the rest of that encounter or situation.

Mental 0: You seem fine at first, but in fact you have gained a madness as per the DMG -- either paranoia, mania, or phobia (DM's choice). The madness DC is 15. The madness passes if you can get a good night's rest and then make the Will save, OR you get a good night's rest after someone has made a DC 20 Heal check on you. The Heal check DC is reduced by 1 for every ten minutes the healer spends sitting with you and speaking calmly.

Fugue:

Fugue 3: You still get occasional flickers of memory from your past life. The DM may use this to give you hints or clues at any time during the first two modules. Additionally, during the first week after waking, you may reroll up to three attacks, saves, or skill checks, as the fading memories of your past self briefly inspire you to greater competence. These rerolls are a limited resource; once you've used them, they're gone.

Fugue 2: As per normal.

Fugue 1: You no longer remember your name. The DM or the other players will give you a name based on some characteristic ("Scarface", "Twitchy", or the like). Also, some of your memories are slow to recover. Whenever you attempt to attack with a weapon, use a skill, or cast a spell, there is a 20% chance you are unable to bring those memories to the fore. For a weapon or a skill, you are treated as non-proficient (-4 to attack rolls, no +3 bonus on skill checks). For a spell, you are unable to cast it, but you do not lose the spell or slot. Once you have used a particular weapon or skill, or cast a particular spell, you no longer have to make this roll. You can try to reroll a failed roll after at least ten minutes have passed. This condition passes after a good night's rest.

Fugue 0: As above, except the failure chance is now 50%, and you don't remember how to read or how to speak any languages but Common. The condition persists until you can get a good night's rest and then make a DC 15 save, OR you get a good night's rest after someone has made a DC 20 Heal check on you. The Heal check DC is reduced by 1 for every ten minutes the healer spends sitting with you and speaking calmly.

If you do use it, please let us know how it works out!

cheers,

Doug M.

[darker_phoenix]

Link2000 wrote:

Our group decided to take this AP into a "survival" game from the get go. Usually our group does a 20 point buy, but this time we went to 15. Also we decided to steer away from classes that were strictly immune to fear or had many ways to undermine it and limited our race to human. We also had to take one drawback without the bonus trait.

It's been fun, every fight being tooth and nail. We have a Warpriest, an Inquisitor, an Invetigator, and a Wizard.

As for advice, I would just about ban paladins if for nothing else but to keep the theme strong. Having a drawback (with or without the extra trait based off group) will help the player's have some sort of weakness built in. And lastly have the player's name off at least one fear that their character has. Give them a small penalty (shaken or dazzled) if they come across that fear, nothing too detrimental though.

Yeah, I've decided paladins are out, but I don't think anyone was planning on playing one anyway. I've thought about the drawbacks thing, maybe I'll give that a go. Thanks!

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

Here's a system I posted back in November on the Strange Aeons subforum. I used it IMC and the players liked it. YMMV.

* * * * *
I love the amnesia aspect of ISoS. What I don't like so much: that the PCs, after the opening encounter, immediately find all their stuff and start off pretty much unscathed. I think the horror aspect is likely to be ramped up if the PCs have a more realistic "wake up naked in an asylum" experience. Yes, ISoS is a pretty tough module. But I have a party of six, so I'm okay with handicapping them a little. I think this system would also work with four 20-point characters (since the module assumes 15 points).

Before starting, I'm going to tell the players that they have six Starting Points, which they can distribute among four categories: Stuff, Physical, Mental, and Fugue. They can spend up to three points in each category -- so, for instance, a PC might start with Stuff 2, Physical 3, Mental 1, and Fugue 0. What I'll tell the PCs: "Stuff 3 means you start with lots of stuff. Physical 3 means you're in great physical shape, Mental 3 same. Fugue 3, you have the least possible effects from the fugue. Lower numbers are less good." No details beyond that.

So what will these mean? Well:

** spoiler omitted **...

I'm also not a fan of them getting all their stuff right away. I need to read more of the AP before making decisions, but I'll probably give them a means to defend themselves right off the bat and scatter their stuff around. Depending on the party composition I may not start them at full health and I may have casters roll to determine if they lose one of their prepared spells or spell slots. I don't want to be too mean, but I don't want them to feel like things are just 'business as usual'.

I like the idea of your point system; I'll have to think on that! I've been reading about the sanity system. Does the AP assume you use that? I like it a lot, but I'm not sure if my players would appreciate it.

[Link2000]

Sanity was considered with our group. Early level though it looks brutal as removal is sparse at best (7 8hr days to heal CHA worth of sanity maybe more if you had help = ouch). We have done without so far, but maybe when restoration is a thing in our group we'll switch over.

[Dasrak]

darker_phoenix wrote:

I read through the player's handbook and noticed one section encouraged players to build characters with flaws. As I've grown to know Pathfinder (and pen and paper RPGs in general) I've come to realize what's interesting in them isn't what you can do, but what you can't do. In that regard, I was happy to see that section in the handbook because that mantra is especially true of the horror genre.

I would be inclined to look less at mechanical flaws and more at character flaws, in particular those that die in with the amnesia. For instance, a Paladin could have been a fallen Paladin prior to losing his memories, but now has a blank slate and a fresh start. This would create interesting character development options as he discovers information about his less-than-virtuous behavior in the past.

Quote:

I've also been reading some people's reviews of Strange Aeons and I've noticed them say that groups with PCs that are murder hobos and/or munchkins likely won't get as much out of the AP due to how theme driven it is and how the horror genre tends to work.

One of the biggest issues I've found in my reading of the AP is that it tends to make presumptions about what the PC's do. Way too often do I see something along the lines of "the PC's should do X", even when I can think of several other reasonable courses of action. I wouldn't say it's the murder-hobo or munchkin mentality in particular, so much as the AP is written on the presumption that the party "plays along" with the unspoken expectations of what they should be doing next. If your party chooses to do something else - either because they have a better idea or they never picked up on the subtext hinting at what they should be doing - you'll end up derailed very quickly.

The most glaring of these problems is that there is literally nothing but GM fiat preventing the party from using scry-and-die on the primary antagonist the moment they hit 9th level (they don't literally have to teleport next to him, they just need to figure out which city he's currently in and track him down from there). Even just scrying on its own is problematic since it will give the players way more information than they are intended to have at this early junction in the adventure.

Quote:

I assume a paladin who is immune to fear is probably a bad fit for this kind of game. What about a barbarian with the superstition rage power? Or are clerics that use spells like calm emotions not a good fit? I just don't really know how to encourage my players to build characters in order to become really steeped in the genre.

All of those should be fine. No matter what your characters choose to play, you'll want to tailor things for your players. No two groups play the same way, and even the same players can end up having a very different experience depending on their character choices.

Quote:

I'm also not a fan of them getting all their stuff right away. I need to read more of the AP before making decisions, but I'll probably give them a means to defend themselves right off the bat and scatter their stuff around.

You can definitely get away with just giving them bare minimum equipment. Weapons, spellbooks, holy symbols, and perhaps a few other pieces of equipment. The party will find better stuff shortly and will completely forget about what they were supposed to have on their character sheet. Focus on making the opening fun and memorable.

If you haven't thoroughly read the AP, then I'd say you definitely want to play up the amnesia aspect as much as possible, dropping hints about the PC's lives before their awakening that raise more questions than answers.

[quibblemuch]

Consider using the Drawbacks options from Ultimate Campaign.

[Saldiven]

quibblemuch wrote:

Consider using the Drawbacks options from Ultimate Campaign.

Our group opted for Drawbacks, too.

[Bwang]

The paladin in a friend's game retains the fearless, but cannot come to grips with all these creatures that he meets actually existing. Do you know just how few Smites you get each day? The whole area they're in detects as evil and there is an Attack of Opportunity in their game. They also allow evil turnings to hurt him.