Question 3: You can masterwork armor, shield, weapons and tools. True?
Should Say:
3)Armor, shields, weapons and tools can be have the masterwork quality. True?
Page 93, Core Rulebook, Craft.
You can make a masterwork item: a weapon, suit of armor, shield, or tool that conveys a bonus on its use through its exceptional craftsmanship.
Questions update 2.0
1)To enchant a weapon it must be a masterwork weapon. True?
2)To enchant armor, it must be masterwork armor. True?
3)Armor, shields, weapons and tools can be have the masterwork quality. True?
Page 93, Core Rulebook, Craft.
You can make a masterwork item: a weapon, suit of armor, shield, or tool that conveys a bonus on its use through its exceptional craftsmanship.
4)When you masterwork shield, do you masterwork it as Armor, weapon or both?
Answer? Armor only. Page 149 of Core Rulebook, last paragraph under Masterwork Weapons heading.
5)A shield must be masterwork armor to be magic armor. True?
6)A shield must be a masterwork weapon to be a magic weapon. True?
Now this way.
7)Shields can be used to perform shield bash. True?
8)Shields used to shield bash are weapons only when they are used to shield bash. True?
9)Bucklers and tower shields can not shield bash. True?
10)Light shields, heavy shields, bucklers and tower shields are all shields. True?
11)All shields are armor. True?
12)A shield that can not shield bash, can not be a weapon. True?
13)Masterwork light shield and heavy shield are weapons only when they are being used to shield bash. True?
14)Light shields and heavy shields are still masterwork when they are being used as a weapon during a shield bash. True?
15)Can a masterwork light shield and heavy shield be enchanted when being used as a weapon during a shield bash?
Page 120, Core Rulebook, Craft Magic Arms and Armor (Item Creation) feat.
Benefit: You can create magic weapons, armor, or shields. Enhancing a weapon, suit of armor, or shield takes 1 day for each 1,000 gp in the price of its magical features. To enhance a weapon, suit of armor, or shield, you must use up raw materials costing half of this total price. See the magic item creation rules in Chapter 15 for more information. The weapon, armor, or shield to be enhanced must be a masterwork item that you provide. Its cost is not included in the above cost. You can also mend a broken or destroyed magic weapon, suit of armor, or shield if it is one that you could make. Doing so costs half the raw materials and half the time it would take to craft that item in the first place.
Enhancing a weapon, suit of armor, or shield takes 1 day for each 1,000 gp in the price of its magical features.
Attacks are part of a round.
Page 178, Core Rulebook, HOW COMBAT WORKS.
Each round represents 6 seconds in the game world; there are 10 rounds in a minute of combat.
You must enhance a shield while it is bashing. A shield bash is an attck that last for 6 seconds or less. Enhancing takes 1 day for each 1,000 gp in the price.
6 seconds to 1 day.
New question.
16)How do you enhance a shield during a shield bash that take 6 seconds or less, when Enhancing takes 1 day for each 1,000 gp in the price?
I don't beleive it is possible to do so.
The problem is you're coming at it with a false assumption. Shields are weapons, at all times not just when bashing. Did you ignore the rules regarding enhancing shields as weapons or did you just miss them?
Could you please cite or refer those rules for me? I could not find them.
All I could find was this: Page 152, Core Rulebook, paraphrasing from both heavy and light shield.
Shield Bash Attacks: You can bash an opponent with a shield. Used in this way, a shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. An enhancement bonus on a shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but the shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.
From the wording I got this:
A shield must be used in a Shield Bash Attack to be a weapon. Only during a shield bash is a shield is a weapon. At all other times a shield only counts as armor.
Where did my logic fail me?
Hmm...
1)To enchant a weapon it must be a masterwork weapon. True?
2)To enchant armor, it must be masterwork armor. True?
3)You can masterwork armor, shield, weapons and tools. True?
4)When you masterwork shield, do you masterwork it as Armor, weapon or both?
Answer? Armor only. Page 149 of Core Rulebook, last paragraph under Masterwork Weapons heading.
** spoiler omitted **5)A shield must be masterwork armor to be magic armor. True?
6)A shield must be a masterwork weapon to be a magic weapon. True?
Now this way.
7)Shields can be used to perform shield bash. True?
8)Shields used to shield bash are weapons only when they are used to shield bash. True?
9)Bucklers and tower shields can not shield bash. True?
10)Light shields, heavy shields, bucklers and tower shields are all shields. True?
11)All shields are armor. True?
12)A shield that can...
1. Yes. Masterwork Shields are still Masterwork Weapons.
2. Yes. Masterwork Shields are still Masterwork Armor items.
3. Yes, but they must be crafted Masterwork from the beginning. You can't ad-hoc Masterwork Quality on an existing non-Masterwork item; at least, not without the Masterwork Transformation spell (which is pretty cool for this sort of thing).
4. It counts as both. It says that instead of receiving a +1 Enhancement Bonus, it has reduced Armor Check Penalty. It still otherwise retains the Masterwork property required to be made magical, both as a weapon and as an armor item. After all, it only requires Masterwork Quality; expanding it to mean anything besides the quality of Masterwork is conjecture at best (since it's not any more defined than simply being a quality on an item), and at worst, houseruling (because you're adding stuff to something that may or may not be intended, and in this case, it's probably not intended to be a limitation).
5. Yes, because a Shield counts as both a Weapon and an Armor Item.
6. Yes, because a Shield counts as both a Weapon and an Armor Item.
7. Yes, because that's their primary means of attack. Of course, I can do improvised attacks, or in the case of a Throwing Shield, a Ranged Attack (which isn't a Shield Bash), but as far as them being their only means of attack, that's just flat out wrong, and is true of most every other weapon.
8. Nope. If that's the case, you can't make them Masterwork (either Armor or Weapons), apply Shield Spikes to them, benefit from Weapon Focus feats or Weapon Training features, and most importantly, enhance them as Magic Weapons. You can't have it be both a weapon and not a weapon at the same time. This isn't some Schrodinger's Shield crap.
9. Yes, and that's because they don't have text permitting them to do so. Interestingly enough, Bucklers can be made into Throwing Shields, but can't make Shield Bashes, per RAW. Personally, I think it's an oversight, but I think it'd make Swashbucklers a lot more interesting...
10. Not just them, Klars and Madus are shields too.
11. Not just armor, but weapons too.
12. It sure can. See my examples given in Point #7, such as being able to make Improvised Attacks (even if at a -4 penalty), or Throwing Attacks (even if not designed to be thrown).
13. I fail to see how the Masterwork Quality makes a factor in being able to bash with the shield or not. All it does is reduce the Armor Check Penalty incurred by 1, and lets you enhance it as both Magic Armor and Magic Weaponry. It has nothing to do with permitting Shield Bashes or other forms of attacks.
14. Read the previous point, because it's basically the same question, except in a more redundant format.
15. Being used in a Shield Bash is hardly irrelevant, when you can attack with it in other manners. The fact is that it's a Weapon, Period. That's it. It's not a Weapon in X scenario, it's not a Weapon when you perform Y action, it's just simply, flat-out, a Weapon. (Where the hell is BlackBloodTroll at when you need him?)
**BONUS QUESTION**
16. This is the most obtuse question I've ever seen. You're requiring a player enhance their weapon for only up to 6 seconds at a time? If I was at a table like this, I'd tell everybody who supported that ruling to go screw a prickly cactus right before I broke the door slamming it behind me as I left said table.
There's my rebuttal. If you need me to show any proof, by all means I can provide it.
There's my rebuttal. If you need me to show any proof, by all means I can provide it.
Wouldn't 'proof' in this case just be pointing to the entry Shields have on the weapon table and the 'but the shield can be made into a magic weapon' line?
Because given that those two things exist I don't really see the point in any of Vince's gymnastics.
It's just one exhibit of many, my friend...
Do ALL shields count as weapons and armor? Such as Tower shield and bucklers for example? Or is it ones that can shield bash, like light and heavy shield.
Do ALL shields count as weapons and armor? Such as Tower shield and bucklers for example? Or is it ones that can shield bash, like light and heavy shield.
Tower Shields and Bucklers aren't defined in the Weapons table, nor are they listed as subjects in Fighter Weapon Groups, so they aren't any more weapons than, say, a busted beer mug is a weapon. Which means that at best they're Improvised Weapons. (Bucklers can be made into Throwing Shields per RAW, but I think that's an oversight.)
Doesn't matter if I overgeneralized or didn't make myself perfectly clear. Point is that if it's defined as a Weapon in the Weapon Table, as well as in a Fighter Weapon Group, chances are it's a weapon. If it isn't, then chances are it isn't. It's really that simple.
The Fighter weapon group and weapon table are not a valid points as unarmed strike are found there as well, and can't be turn into masterwork or magic weapons without some kind of special means.
Can we agree that shields:
-are armor
-can be Magic armor
-can be masterwork armor
-can only attack as a shield bash
That weapons:
-can be magic weapon
-can be masterwork weapons
And to enchant anything it must be masterwork?
Please back up your statements with citations, references, or official rulings and sources.
Please read the Community Guidelines found at the bottom of every tread on Profanity/Vulgar Speech and Malicious Speech.
Bold text in each spoiler is the text that is relevant to the question.
Part 1
1)To enchant a weapon it must be a masterwork and a weapon. True?
Yes, as described on page 467 of the core rulebook, Under the weapon heading:
2)To enchant armor or shield, it must be masterwork and armor or shield. True?
Yes, as described on page 461 of the core rulebook, Under the Armor heading:
3)Armor, shields, weapons and tools can have the masterwork quality. True?
Yes, as described on Page 93, Core Rulebook, Craft.
4)When you masterwork shield, do you masterwork it as Armor, weapon or both?
Answer: Armor only. Page 149 of Core Rulebook, last paragraph under Masterwork Weapons heading.
5)A shield must be masterwork to be magic armor. True?
Yes, as stated in question 2.
6)A shield must be a masterwork to be a magic weapon. True?
Yes, as stated in question 1.
7)Shields can be used to perform shield bash. True?
Yes, as described on Page 152, Core Rulebook, Shield Bash Attack.
Is there anything here that is incorrect? If so correct me with citations, references, or official rulings and sources.
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The Fighter weapon group and weapon table are not a valid points as unarmed strike are found there as well, and can't be turn into masterwork or magic weapons without some kind of special means.
Are you going to suggest Natural Weapons aren't Weapons either? By that logic, nothing is a Weapon, because a Weapon isn't properly defined anywhere in the book.
I need to hook you up with my friend Occam. He's got a Razor that's cutting edge on this sort of confusing crap.
I mean the core rulebook states explicitly:
An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.
So it's not like there aren't already weapons that aren't capable of being made masterwork, or weapons that cannot be enchanted directly.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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A shield is a weapon all the time, if you can make a shield bash with it.
A klar is a shield bash shield dealing 1d6 slashing on a bash.
You can't bash with the klar as a light shield with bashing if you put bashing on the klar.
The shield would need bashing to add weapon properties to the bashing side, which requires a 150 gp masterwork shield.
If you want to make a masterwork klar, you'd need to spend 300 because it's a weapon first and shield second.
If you want to make a light shield masterwork it's just 150 gp.
I am learning more about the pathfinder rules as I am reading and citing for this post. This is a journey of understanding and enlightenment for me.
If you disagree with my logic, Then please state why and cite the pathfinder resource on how it proves that your statement is True, or that my statement is False.
Please do not reject my logic without some kind logic of your own. I have supported many of my statements with citations, references, from official rulings and sources. Please do the same. If you are unable or unwilling to support your logic with citations, references, from official rulings and sources, then I may reject your logic. I may reject any logic that is not supported by Pathfinder rules. While logic that is supported by Pathfinder rules should be accepted logically so long as it is supported by Pathfinder rules.
Pathfinder rules are not simple and no part of it can be explained with with one or two sentences. Everything in the Pathfinder is connected. To reject one rule is going to effect all of the rules found in pathfinder. This post will be large, because Pathfinder is not a simple game. Pathfinder Core Rulebook alone is over 500 pages and that is only cover the basics rules of pathfinder RPG.
I will demonstrate how one rule is connected to other rules within the pathfinder game by using logical reasoning combine with citations, references, from official Pathfinder rulings and sources to form a logical conclusion.
Every item in Pathfinder is a weapon. It does not matter is it is a shield, a sword, a fist, a tail, a battering ram, a torch, etc. Because of the following rules found in official Pathfinder sources.
All items in the game can be used as a weapon. True?
Yes, as described on Page 144, Core Rulebook.
Improvised Weapons are still Weapons. True?
Yes, Adding the word "Improvised" to Improvised Weapons does not make it any less a Weapon. No more then adding the words "Inappropriately Sized" to Inappropriately Sized Weapons make it any less a Weapon. Not being designed as a weapon does not exclude it as a weapon. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. The damage rules are a variable and can be found in the Improved weapon description.
There is no Improvised weapons table because that would be an huge undertaking to assign Damage to every item in the game. It is more practical and efficient to assign Damage to items that are primarily used as weapons or most likely to be used in combat.
I have shown how everything here is connected using Pathfinder rules.
I have not listed every possible item in the game that are weapons for same reasons why there is no Improved weapons table. Because that would be an huge undertaking to assign Damage to every item in the game. It is more practical and efficient to assign Damage to items that are primarily used just as weapons or items most likely to be used in combat.
Please note that there is no weapon table that lists every weapon in the pathfinder game. Weapon tables just list some the items that are primarily used as weapons and not all items that are or can be used as a Weapon.
The Core Rulebook does not list torches as a weapon, yet torches are in the Core Rulebook and are Improvised Weapons.
In conclusion, all are items are weapons. Because all items can be used as Improvised Weapons, Improvised Weapons are still weapons, and the word "Improvised" to Improvised Weapons does not make Improvised Weapons any less a Weapon.
I have shown how everything here is connected using Pathfinder rules.
Pathfinder rules are not simple and no part of it can be explained with with one or two sentences. Everything in the Pathfinder is connected. To reject one rule is going to effect all of the rules found in pathfinder. The reason this post is so large is because Pathfinder is not a simple game.
A reminder.
Please do not reject my logic without some kind logic of your own. I have supported many of my statements with citations, references, from official rulings and sources. Please do the same. If you are unable or unwilling to support your logic with citations, references, from official rulings and sources, then I may reject your logic. I may reject any logic that is not supported by Pathfinder rules. While logic that is supported by Pathfinder rules should be accepted logically so long as it is supported by Pathfinder rules.
If you disagree with this logic, Then please state why and cite the pathfinder resource on how it proves that your statement is True, or that my statement is False.
Here is a some food for thought that illustrates the strong connection between Improvised weapons and simple weapons.
How does one get a Club?
Can one buy a club?
Page 142, Core Rulebook, in simple weapon table, club. There is no price. There is no weapon description in Core Rulebook.
Page 25 of Ultimate Equipment,
Club: This weapon is usually just a shaped piece of wood, sometimes with a few nails or studs embedded in it.
Clubs are sold at shops. But prices of a club is an unknown variable.
One must find a club.
One must make a club.
One must improvised an item to be a club in some fashion. If so, a club is an improvised simple weapon. As in an item is being improvise to act in every way as a club; a simple weapon.
A table leg can be modified to be a club.
Here is how it's done: Page 92, Core Rulebook.
of success. If improvised tools are used, the check is made
with a –2 penalty. On the other hand, masterwork artisan’s
tools provide a +2 circumstance bonus on the check.
To determine how much time and money it takes to
make an item, follow these steps.
1. Find the item’s price in silver pieces (1 gp = 10 sp).
2. Find the item’s DC from Table 4–4.
3. Pay 1/3 of the item’s price for the raw material cost.
4. Make an appropriate Craft check representing one
week’s worth of work. If the check succeeds, multiply
your check result by the DC. If the result × the DC
equals the price of the item in sp, then you have
completed the item. (If the result × the DC equals
double or triple the price of the item in silver pieces,
then you’ve completed the task in one-half or onethird
of the time. Other multiples of the DC reduce
the time in the same manner.) If the result × the DC
doesn’t equal the price, then it represents the progress
you’ve made this week. Record the result and make
a new Craft check for the next week. Each week, you
make more progress until your total reaches the price
of the item in silver pieces.
2.DC 12, simple weapon
3.1/3 of 1 is 1/3. Round to 1 for math's sake again.
4. Make an appropriate Craft check representing one week’s worth of work: Roll a 12. Check 12. Check 12 to DC 12 =success
If the check succeeds, multiply your check result by the DC: 12 times 12 is 144.
If the result × the DC equals the price of the item in sp, then you have completed the item. 144 to 1. Club completed.
(If the result × the DC equals double or triple the price of the item in silver pieces, then you’ve completed the task in one-half or onethird of the time. Other multiples of the DC reduce the time in the same manner.) 144 is 144 times greater then 1. Job completed in 144th of a week.
I AM NOT DOING THE MATH.
Table leg is now a Club and it took much less time then a week.
There is little difference between a Table leg and a club. They would have the same damage, critical threat and critical modifier. The only different that a Table leg is an Improvised Weapon and a club is a simple weapon.
Same logic applies to a Quarterstaff. No price, is a simple piece of wood, about 5 feet in length. A pole is 10ft long; break it in half, you now have 2 Quarterstaff. No craft check needed.
You can not buy an unarmed strike. Yet it is a simple weapon and listed in the weapon table because it is most likely to be used in combat and not a Improvised Weapon.
Can I attack with a torch? Yes, as an Improvised Weapon. See torch on page 157 of the Core Rulebook.
A shield could be built that also acted as a magic weapon, but the cost of the enhancement bonus on attack rolls would need to be added into the cost of the shield and its enhancement bonus to AC.
From the prd armor special ability section. There you go, rules stating you can enhance it as a weapon, from a paizo source.
To Sah,
Please read my 2 posts from earlier today, April, 16, 2017. I am now say everything thing is a a weapon. A shield, a sword, a fist, a tail, a battering ram, a torch, etc.
I literally just gave you a rule from a paizo source saying you can enhance a shield as a weapon, just like you asked me to. Show me the rule that says you can enhance an improvised weapon. This time the burden of proof is on you.
Not once did I mention enchanting an Improvised Weapon.
I stated everything thing is a weapon because it can be, at the very least, an Improvised Weapon.
One could say, Anything that could be built can also act as a weapon.
Do you see any fault in what I say?
Feel free to the read the post I made earlier and quote me "enchanting an Improvised Weapon".
I am now trying to understand one of the fundamental aspect of the game. One that I took for granted. I am trying to define what a weapon really is. I thought everything listed in a weapon table was a weapon. That's it, end of story.
This may not be the case. My perceptive is upside down, and I can't find solid ground to place my feet.
I am going back to basics. What is a weapon? With the description of Improvised Weapon. Just about everything in the game can be one.
Sorry for the double post, but I can't edit the previous one anymore.
I may have came off as hostile in my last post, I didn't mean to but help me out here.
What are you trying to get at now, you state that everything is a weapon, and while anything can be used as an improvised weapon, I don't understand what you are trying to get at with this.
Sigh, I sorry as well. I can be difficult at times. This klar thing has me very confused.
At the moment I am going step by step to understand how a klars works.
I am starting with weapons.
What is a weapon? Can anyone tell me? I thought it was anything listed in a weapon table was a weapon and that was it.
Then after researching on the klar. I came across many rules that got thinking. Is a shield a weapon? Yes/No? I don't know anymore.
I have to define weapon first be before I can go on knowing what a shield is. I must have my information cited to be 100% sure.
My very minor case of OCD is now in overdrive and I can't stop until I come to a logical conclusion, a solid answer. An answers that is logical sound and pathfinder legally binding.
If someone said " Shield are not weapons" I want to be able to come back on here and a have a fully form explanation complete with notes and references. So I can say "Shields are weapons because of the following rules" and not "Because I say it's a weapon, end of story."
Because "I say so" is far too arbitrary for my taste.
So here we are. What is a weapon? Do Improvised Weapon rules make almost anything a weapon? There are feats like Improvised Weapon Mastery that act a lot like weapon proficiency.
Okay, so a clear rule that may not encompass everything, is that if it's on the weapons chart it is 100% a weapon, that's why it's on the chart. Even if it may also be something else (for instance, not using shield as an example, the gnomish battle ladder is a weapon, it is also a ladder) it is a weapon.
Improvised weapons are not categorized because as we know practically any object could be used as one. You can't enchant improvised weapons however because you can't make a masterwork one as a weapon. You can make masterwork tools, but that uses a different pricing system. Shields can not be made into masterwork weapons,because there is a rule stating they can't. However, they also have a specific rule saying they can be enhanced as weapons.
Does that help?
Okay, so a clear rule that may not encompass everything, is that if it's on the weapons chart it is 100% a weapon, that's why it's on the chart. Even if it may also be something else (for instance, not using shield as an example, the gnomish battle ladder is a weapon, it is also a ladder) it is a weapon.
Improvised weapons are not categorized because as we know practically any object could be used as one.
Yes, it really does. It's clear and I love it.
As for not being able to enchant Improvised weapons as magic weapons. I am not so sure about that... There is the CAILEAN FIGHTING TANKARD.
But can we put this part on hold please? I need to get to masterwork, before any kind of magic item.
I would like to talk about shields and armor first.
There isn't any Improvised armor or shield rule is there?
Please, please tell me there no way that a short sword can give me AC or a monk outfit to act like Full plate without the use of feats and magic.
I don't think I can wrap my mind around the idea.
Anything listed in shield and armor is 100% shield or armor. Right?
Is there anything out there that is a shield or armor but not listed as shield or armor without the use of feats and magic?
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I can't stop until I come to a logical conclusion, a solid answer. An answers that is logical sound and pathfinder legally binding ... So I can say "Shields are weapons because of the rules."
Nearly every single FAQ has a "RAW" position that people strongly supported that others opposed. So sometimes that kinda of strategy with the rules leads to the wrong conclusions. I can give you 20-30 examples off the top of my head that was put forward as "logical conclusions" but wrong.
Many weapons give a shield bonus to AC:
Bill (Ultimate Equipment, pg 18) - When fighting defensively or with full defense, this weapon gives you a +1 shield bonus to AC.
Boar Spear (Ultimate Equipment, pg 17) - If you ready a boar spear against a charge and your attack hits, you gain a +2 shield bonus to your AC against that creature until your next turn.
Meteor Hammer (Ultimate Equipment, pg 21) - while in fortress mode you cannot use it as a double weapon but gain reach and a +1 shield bonus to AC.
Scizore (Ultimate Equipment, pg 18) - The scizore grants a +1 shield bonus to AC, but if you attack with the blade, you lose the AC bonus that round and take a –1 penalty on attack rolls with it.
But you might also be looking for items that count as a shield without actually being a shield.
To kadance, those are very nice weapons that provide Shield bonus to AC. I had no idea there were weapons like these.
And you are right. I am look for other items that count as shields or armor.
I noticed that Klars are weapons that count as a light shield.
The mess I made out of the tread is based on that I can't understand how shields are weapons and how a klar is a weapon that counts as a shield.
I now know that everything in the game can be a weapon thanks to Improvised weapon rules.
I know when using a shield to attack is a shield bash and counts as a martial weapon while doing so. The Improvised weapons rule lets me use any shield as a weapon, while the shield bash rule lets me treat light and heavy shields as martial weapons instead of Improvised weapon.
Klars are unique. They are already martial weapons, but also counts as a light shield. Not light shield that acts like a martial weapon when using shield bash.
Why is this hard for me? I not sure. It seems to me that a klar could be a kind a double weapon. The blade that is a martial weapon, and light shield which can also be used as a weapon; just like any other light shield could be.
I understand attacking with blade loses the shield AC. Very much like a shield bash, however attacking with the blade is not a shield bash, it is an attack with a martial weapon.
Maybe I should look at it differently.
Attack means weapon. It I use the klar as the one handed martial weapon it always was.
AC means shield. Something the klar can be treated as.
I can only attack with the klars as a weapon, never as a shield, because klars are martial weapons at all times.
I can not shield bash with a klar because it is a martial weapon. It is only treated as a shield.
Here is where I get confused again.
How can I use improved shield bash and not shield bash with the Klar in the first place?
I am stuck in a loop and I can't get out. Feels like being asked to sit in the corner of a round room.
Can someone please help me understand this?
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Klar isn't a double weapon, you don't attack as a light shield with a klar. You only attack with the 1d6 slashing klar shield bash.
You are taking the line "treat as" to mean something it doesn't ever mean. It doesn't splinter the item into two things. It simply means consider some additional attributes to be applied.
Think of it this way, when Ring of Invisibility says "as invisibility spell" it really means "use the effects of invisibility with the caster level of this item." The "as invisibility" is there to answer questions not already answered.
The klar "as light shield" answers questions not already answered. They answered that it is used to shield bash for 1d6 slashing. That it doesn't do any good to stack bashing as it's already spiked. They didn't answer that it has ACP if you don't have shield proficiency, that it has arcane spell failure, and other details.
Is a Klar designed as a weapon so much it is a one handed martial weapon/shield?
A hybrid item?
Now it makes perfect sense!
THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH!
Are there any other hybrid items in pathfinder?
A Klar is listed as a shield (UE 9), therefore it is always a shield and can always be enchanted as one.
A Klar is listed as a one-handed melee weapon (UE 18), therefore it is always a weapon and can always be enchanted as one.
Neither of these game elements invalidates the other. A Klar can be enchanted as either or both a weapon and a shield.
The section of the Klar-related FAQ specifically, explicitly states that it is "otherwise similar to using a spiked shield (for instance, the damage doesn’t stack with the bashing ability, you lose the shield bonus to AC when attacking with the klar unless you have Improved Shield Bash, and so on)."
Full Post
Are there any other hybrid items in pathfinder?
Weapons with multiple applications, or which count as armor or other weapons under certain circumstances:
The Axe Musket, Buckler Gun, Dagger Pistol, Double Walking Stick Katana, Double-Chained Kama, Halfling Sling Staff, Kusarigama, Kyoketsu Shoge, Lungchuan Tamo, Madu, Meteor Hammer, Scorpion Whip, Shang Gou, Spiked Armor, Spiked Shield, Sword Cane, Sword Cane Pistol, Taiaha, Tekko-Kagi, Throwing Shield, and probably Many, many More.
Wow. That's quite a list there. I meant shield and weapon hybrid.
But, um, I think I'm good now. Thank you.