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New monk class i have built, called the Unbound Monk


Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew

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This monk class uses the dimensional agility line of feats and he is a psionic class instead of a martial training class.

If you could take a look and tell me what you think. I will set a link to my drop box for you guys to look at. Any advice would be appreciated.

Unbound monk


You may have more luck over in the Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew forum; flagging this thread to move there. (I am not familiar with psionics, so I can't comment on the document myself.)


2nded for moving to Homebrew.

Hope you find your answers there. And like Fuzzy-Wuzzy I do not mess with Occult classes so I can never make suggestions on them. I am also pretty sure I will be passing on Starfinder as I am not really into tech or Modern style games...I love my basic DnD style fantasies with Wizards, Dragons, and old time-y feelz.


My initial thoughts are that you're using Psionics, not Psychic magic which originated in occult adventures. But psionics, as that thing that was there in 3.5 and has been done as a 3rd party book for Pathfinder by...I'm not actually sure who.

I have little familiarity with the version of Psionics designed to work with Pathfinder, because I didn't like Psionics back in 3.5.

I didn't look closely through everything you have here, but you're unlimited use of Abundant Step is a clear no go for me.

I realize that you're whole desire is to teleport around the battlefield, but unfortunately things like that need a reasonable limit to how often they can be used.

Perhaps an ability that instead said movement unused from the activation of abundant step can be used on subsequent turns to move. Since dimension door's movement is 400ft + 40ft per level one use of abundant step could provide all the movement needed for an entire combat. This would still be an incredibly powerful ability, but not as powerful as you're unlimited use version.


Claxon wrote:

My initial thoughts are that you're using Psionics, not Psychic magic which originated in occult adventures. But psionics, as that thing that was there in 3.5 and has been done as a 3rd party book for Pathfinder by...I'm not actually sure who.

I have little familiarity with the version of Psionics designed to work with Pathfinder, because I didn't like Psionics back in 3.5.

I didn't look closely through everything you have here, but you're unlimited use of Abundant Step is a clear no go for me.

I realize that you're whole desire is to teleport around the battlefield, but unfortunately things like that need a reasonable limit to how often they can be used.

Perhaps an ability that instead said movement unused from the activation of abundant step can be used on subsequent turns to move. Since dimension door's movement is 400ft + 40ft per level one use of abundant step could provide all the movement needed for an entire combat. This would still be an incredibly powerful ability, but not as powerful as you're unlimited use version.

Good point, but what about his in ability to use most of his abilities if he loses his psionic focus. Psionic points in this instant act like ki but allow the unbound monk to hold a psionic focus to use his abilities. To gain psionic focus he needs to spend an entire round this action provokes attacks of opportunity, and requires a concentration check of a dc 20.

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The psionics aspect feels tacked on and not cohesive. The abilities that DO use psionics do not follow the math and standards of the psionics rules. For example, the dimensional stitching ability allows you to spend 1 power point to cast CLW, 2 points for cure moderate, and 3 for cure serious. That's not how power points work when manifesting psionic powers - the cost is supposed to be equal to the manifester level, which isn't even mentioned. And if you don't follow the psionics rules, then it begs the question why use psionics in the first place.

The biggest problem I have with the class is that you give out a lot of really powerful abilities at way too low of level. They get a somewhat at-will plane shift (5th or 7th level spell) at 1st level. They get a better version of dimension door at 2nd level, which is five levels before a wizard can cast it. On top of it, you essentially give out a free scaling amulet of mighty fists at a level before a normal monk can buy the item.

Overall, it's a huge unbalanced mess.

Also, please use a font size that doesn't make me have to zoom in!


wintersrage wrote:
Claxon wrote:

My initial thoughts are that you're using Psionics, not Psychic magic which originated in occult adventures. But psionics, as that thing that was there in 3.5 and has been done as a 3rd party book for Pathfinder by...I'm not actually sure who.

I have little familiarity with the version of Psionics designed to work with Pathfinder, because I didn't like Psionics back in 3.5.

I didn't look closely through everything you have here, but you're unlimited use of Abundant Step is a clear no go for me.

I realize that you're whole desire is to teleport around the battlefield, but unfortunately things like that need a reasonable limit to how often they can be used.

Perhaps an ability that instead said movement unused from the activation of abundant step can be used on subsequent turns to move. Since dimension door's movement is 400ft + 40ft per level one use of abundant step could provide all the movement needed for an entire combat. This would still be an incredibly powerful ability, but not as powerful as you're unlimited use version.

Good point, but what about his in ability to use most of his abilities if he loses his psionic focus. Psionic points in this instant act like ki but allow the unbound monk to hold a psionic focus to use his abilities. To gain psionic focus he needs to spend an entire round this action provokes attacks of opportunity, and requires a concentration check of a dc 20.

Mechanics of "you lose your powers if you run out of these points" just means the player never uses up the last of their points. With my understanding of psionic focus, you basically will never lose it so it's not a balancing effect at all. Especially because the character can wake up and gain psionic focus and never lose it the whole day.

Also, looking through the rest of the abilities you give...I agree with Cyrad. You version is just completely overpowered.


Claxon wrote:
wintersrage wrote:
Claxon wrote:

My initial thoughts are that you're using Psionics, not Psychic magic which originated in occult adventures. But psionics, as that thing that was there in 3.5 and has been done as a 3rd party book for Pathfinder by...I'm not actually sure who.

I have little familiarity with the version of Psionics designed to work with Pathfinder, because I didn't like Psionics back in 3.5.

I didn't look closely through everything you have here, but you're unlimited use of Abundant Step is a clear no go for me.

I realize that you're whole desire is to teleport around the battlefield, but unfortunately things like that need a reasonable limit to how often they can be used.

Perhaps an ability that instead said movement unused from the activation of abundant step can be used on subsequent turns to move. Since dimension door's movement is 400ft + 40ft per level one use of abundant step could provide all the movement needed for an entire combat. This would still be an incredibly powerful ability, but not as powerful as you're unlimited use version.

Good point, but what about his in ability to use most of his abilities if he loses his psionic focus. Psionic points in this instant act like ki but allow the unbound monk to hold a psionic focus to use his abilities. To gain psionic focus he needs to spend an entire round this action provokes attacks of opportunity, and requires a concentration check of a dc 20.

Mechanics of "you lose your powers if you run out of these points" just means the player never uses up the last of their points. With my understanding of psionic focus, you basically will never lose it so it's not a balancing effect at all. Especially because the character can wake up and gain psionic focus and never lose it the whole day.

Also, looking through the rest of the abilities you give...I agree with Cyrad. You version is just completely overpowered.

How about if i make it so his teleport works close to how the shadowdancer gets his teleport, and i changed the power points required for the cure abilities. I also added back in abundant step.

I also increased the font size to make it easier to read.

Some of the class abilities require you to expend your psionic focus to use them.

Here is the new link Unbound Monk


bump

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It doesn't really matter if you gate plane shift using psionic focus. It's still essentially an at-will ability. You're taking a powerful magical effect that the most powerful spellcasters in the game can't do until 9th level and letting this class do it at 1st level almost whenever they want. Making the class lose all their abilities when they lose psionic focus doesn't fix that.

I'm not following dimensional binding. It's really confusing how it's worded. Also, it's extremely unusual for a class to change a character's creature type and creates a lot of potential problems.

Intuitive Fighting strikes me as too powerful. It's also rather vague because there's no such term as "to hit" in Pathfinder. You also say "Wisdom" instead of "Wisdom modifier" or "Wisdom bonus," which implies you're adding your entire Wisdom score to attack and damage rolls.

There's a lot of other major issues with the class. You might have been better off just creating an archetype. Designing classes is very hard to do. Even professional game designers screw it up sometimes.


Cyrad wrote:

It doesn't really matter if you gate plane shift using psionic focus. It's still essentially an at-will ability. You're taking a powerful magical effect that the most powerful spellcasters in the game can't do until 9th level and letting this class do it at 1st level almost whenever they want. Making the class lose all their abilities when they lose psionic focus doesn't fix that.

I'm not following dimensional binding. It's really confusing how it's worded. Also, it's extremely unusual for a class to change a character's creature type and creates a lot of potential problems.

Intuitive Fighting strikes me as too powerful. It's also rather vague because there's no such term as "to hit" in Pathfinder. You also say "Wisdom" instead of "Wisdom modifier" or "Wisdom bonus," which implies you're adding your entire Wisdom score to attack and damage rolls.

There's a lot of other major issues with the class. You might have been better off just creating an archetype. Designing classes is very hard to do. Even professional game designers screw it up sometimes.

The Dimensional Shift only works only if you are on the plane you chose with the dimensional binding ability. Also i changed it so that you now lose your psionic focus for a full 24 hours after using it and you can not use Dimensional Shift again for 7 days.

In regards to the dimensional binding ability, he counts as both humanoid of his race chosen at character creation and outside from the plane chosen, for spells and abilities that can effect those creature types. The spells like dimensional anchor, dimensional lock, using a magic circle to trap me as though i am an called creature.

I have made some more changes to the class again, to try and make it more balanced.


You could basically do the same thing by using the unchained chasis instead of the core one, and adding the dimensional feats to the list of Qinggong powers available as ki powers.

As to your version:

My initial thoughts: cool concept, poor execution. It gets too many powers that are always on, some of which duplicate high level spells and are gained at very low levels. He gets a pool of psionic power points, but almost no abilities that use/play off of them. These factors make the class overpowered and unplayable as written, IMO.

My proposed changes: Here's what I'd do to "fix" the class.

Psionic Talent: do not allow gaining psionic focus as an immediate action at 1st level, it's just cheezy. Especially with the quicken focus ability gained later.

Intuitive Fighting: either give this to them at 1st level, or lose it. This is the sort of feat that you build an entire character concept around, and having to wait til 5th level to start bringing that concept to life sucks. You could replace this with psionic meditation as a bonus feat at 5th level, which makes more sense and would tie-in to the quicken focus ability they receive later.

Dimensional Binding: this is a confusing ability that doesn't follow any standard pathfinder rules. If you want to tie them to the planes somehow, give them a bonus on knowledge (planes) skill checks, or perhaps a favored terrain-type bonus for one of the listed planes.

Dimensional Agility: I'd scale it back even further. Perhaps 40' at 2nd level, 60' at 6th, 80' at 10th, 100' at 14th, and 120' at 18th. Also, changing the duration to 10 minutes doesn't make any sense, so don't do it.

Abundant Step: this should cost expending psionic focus to use. This sets up an interesting contrast with the dimensional agility ability. He can spend 2 power points and keep focus for the shorter range of dimensional agility, OR spend 2 power points and his focus for the longer range of abundant step.

Dimensional Shift: I'd move this to 11th level and limit to x1/day. This brings it more in-line with other plane shift-type abilities.

Dimensional Limbs: You should have to expend psionic focus to activate this ability.

Versatile strike/Ghost attack: both of these abilities should require spending psionic power points to activate.

Dimensional Stitching: I'd limit it to x1/day and include that the caster level equals your unbound level.

Dimensional Shunt (and it's improvements): I'm not a fan of it being always on. Make them spend psionic focus as an immediate action to activate, and have it last til the beginning of your next turn.

Everything else: everything else seems fine. You've got some cool ideas here, you just need to reign in the power levels and make them feel more cohesive together.


Dreamscarred Press would be considered the main authority for PF Psionics for the most part, Claxon.

Also, good to see some free unbound dimensional monk stuff out there, wintersrage. ;)


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Childeric, The Shatterer wrote:

You could basically do the same thing by using the unchained chasis instead of the core one, and adding the dimensional feats to the list of Qinggong powers available as ki powers.

As to your version:

My initial thoughts: cool concept, poor execution. It gets too many powers that are always on, some of which duplicate high level spells and are gained at very low levels. He gets a pool of psionic power points, but almost no abilities that use/play off of them. These factors make the class overpowered and unplayable as written, IMO.

My proposed changes: Here's what I'd do to "fix" the class.

Psionic Talent: do not allow gaining psionic focus as an immediate action at 1st level, it's just cheezy. Especially with the quicken focus ability gained later.

Intuitive Fighting: either give this to them at 1st level, or lose it. This is the sort of feat that you build an entire character concept around, and having to wait til 5th level to start bringing that concept to life sucks. You could replace this with psionic meditation as a bonus feat at 5th level, which makes more sense and would tie-in to the quicken focus ability they receive later.

Dimensional Binding: this is a confusing ability that doesn't follow any standard pathfinder rules. If you want to tie them to the planes somehow, give them a bonus on knowledge (planes) skill checks, or perhaps a favored terrain-type bonus for one of the listed planes.

Dimensional Agility: I'd scale it back even further. Perhaps 40' at 2nd level, 60' at 6th, 80' at 10th, 100' at 14th, and 120' at 18th. Also, changing the duration to 10 minutes doesn't make any sense, so don't do it.

Abundant Step: this should cost expending psionic focus to use. This sets up an interesting contrast with the dimensional agility ability. He can spend 2 power points and keep focus for the shorter range of dimensional agility, OR spend 2 power points and his focus for the longer range of abundant step.

Dimensional Shift: I'd move this to 11th level and limit to x1/day. This...

I have made the changes you have suggested, but the dimensional stitching ability i set to be able to use 2 times a day, i think one is way to limiting.

I am posting a new link again for the Unbound Monk


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wintersrage wrote:
Childeric, The Shatterer wrote:

You could basically do the same thing by using the unchained chasis instead of the core one, and adding the dimensional feats to the list of Qinggong powers available as ki powers.

As to your version:

My initial thoughts: cool concept, poor execution. It gets too many powers that are always on, some of which duplicate high level spells and are gained at very low levels. He gets a pool of psionic power points, but almost no abilities that use/play off of them. These factors make the class overpowered and unplayable as written, IMO.

My proposed changes: Here's what I'd do to "fix" the class.

Psionic Talent: do not allow gaining psionic focus as an immediate action at 1st level, it's just cheezy. Especially with the quicken focus ability gained later.

Intuitive Fighting: either give this to them at 1st level, or lose it. This is the sort of feat that you build an entire character concept around, and having to wait til 5th level to start bringing that concept to life sucks. You could replace this with psionic meditation as a bonus feat at 5th level, which makes more sense and would tie-in to the quicken focus ability they receive later.

Dimensional Binding: this is a confusing ability that doesn't follow any standard pathfinder rules. If you want to tie them to the planes somehow, give them a bonus on knowledge (planes) skill checks, or perhaps a favored terrain-type bonus for one of the listed planes.

Dimensional Agility: I'd scale it back even further. Perhaps 40' at 2nd level, 60' at 6th, 80' at 10th, 100' at 14th, and 120' at 18th. Also, changing the duration to 10 minutes doesn't make any sense, so don't do it.

Abundant Step: this should cost expending psionic focus to use. This sets up an interesting contrast with the dimensional agility ability. He can spend 2 power points and keep focus for the shorter range of dimensional agility, OR spend 2 power points and his focus for the longer range of abundant step.

Dimensional Shift: I'd move

...

I have once again made some more changes to this class, giving it a few more psionic powers it can use, these act just like the spells in every way and cost the right amount of power points to use them.


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Childeric, The Shatterer wrote:

You could basically do the same thing by using the unchained chasis instead of the core one, and adding the dimensional feats to the list of Qinggong powers available as ki powers.

As to your version:

My initial thoughts: cool concept, poor execution. It gets too many powers that are always on, some of which duplicate high level spells and are gained at very low levels. He gets a pool of psionic power points, but almost no abilities that use/play off of them. These factors make the class overpowered and unplayable as written, IMO.

My proposed changes: Here's what I'd do to "fix" the class.

Psionic Talent: do not allow gaining psionic focus as an immediate action at 1st level, it's just cheezy. Especially with the quicken focus ability gained later.

Intuitive Fighting: either give this to them at 1st level, or lose it. This is the sort of feat that you build an entire character concept around, and having to wait til 5th level to start bringing that concept to life sucks. You could replace this with psionic meditation as a bonus feat at 5th level, which makes more sense and would tie-in to the quicken focus ability they receive later.

Dimensional Binding: this is a confusing ability that doesn't follow any standard pathfinder rules. If you want to tie them to the planes somehow, give them a bonus on knowledge (planes) skill checks, or perhaps a favored terrain-type bonus for one of the listed planes.

Dimensional Agility: I'd scale it back even further. Perhaps 40' at 2nd level, 60' at 6th, 80' at 10th, 100' at 14th, and 120' at 18th. Also, changing the duration to 10 minutes doesn't make any sense, so don't do it.

Abundant Step: this should cost expending psionic focus to use. This sets up an interesting contrast with the dimensional agility ability. He can spend 2 power points and keep focus for the shorter range of dimensional agility, OR spend 2 power points and his focus for the longer range of abundant step.

Dimensional Shift: I'd move this to 11th level and limit to x1/day. This...

What do you think of the changes that I have made to the Unbound Monk


The suggestions I made were for the purpose of powering down what I considered to be an overpowered class, and you initially did that...But then you went and gave them a bunch of other abilities that ramp the power level right back up again. Increasing the skill points to 6; adding haste, displacement and invisibility as psionic abilities; adding extra text to the intuitive fighting feat that makes it way more powerful than the printed feat; your new version of dimensional agility is even more broken than before (dimension door is a 4th level spell that most casters can't get until 7th level and you give it to them at 2nd).

I don't know what other advice I can give you.
I wish you luck and happy gaming, but I'm done here.


Childeric, The Shatterer wrote:

The suggestions I made were for the purpose of powering down what I considered to be an overpowered class, and you initially did that...But then you went and gave them a bunch of other abilities that ramp the power level right back up again. Increasing the skill points to 6; adding haste, displacement and invisibility as psionic abilities; adding extra text to the intuitive fighting feat that makes it way more powerful than the printed feat; your new version of dimensional agility is even more broken than before (dimension door is a 4th level spell that most casters can't get until 7th level and you give it to them at 2nd).

I don't know what other advice I can give you.
I wish you luck and happy gaming, but I'm done here.

Dimensional Agility as is only allows you to move double your speed as the feats says, i am not making the feat more powerful just makes it so you don't have to wait till you are 12th level as a monk before you can use it, to me that is stupid and monks seam like the only class choice to take the ability in the first place, as you are not going to see a wizard teleporting into combat to attack an enemy, when they will have little to no chance to hit the enemy. Another thing i made the ability cost close to what the spell would actually cost, as you don't get the full effect of dimension door, you can move no more then 2 times your speed, not the full dimension door, and at 2nd level the way i have it set up will with even a 20 wisdom only allow you to use the ability 1 time an have 2 power points left.

All the other abilities are in line for how many points they would cost to use, as per the norm for power points. You don't even get the normal amount of power points for a high wisdom score, the numbers listed in the chart are half what they should be.

Look at rogue from the pathfinder unbound book, they take weapon finesse and you to add your dexterity to damage and to your attack roll as well as allow you to chose up to 3 weapons by 19th level to use it with, I don't think I am making mine more powerful when the writers for pathfinder have done the same themselves for other classes in the past.

Finesse Training (Ex): At 1st level, a rogue gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat. In addition, starting at 3rd level, she can select any one type of weapon that can be used with Weapon Finesse (such as rapiers or daggers). Once this choice is made, it cannot be changed. Whenever she makes a successful melee attack with the selected weapon, she adds her Dexterity modifier instead of her Strength modifier to the damage roll. If any effect would prevent the rogue from adding her Strength modifier to the damage roll, she does not add her Dexterity modifier. The rogue can select a second weapon at 11th level and a third at 19th level. As an example of something similar to Intuitive Fighting.


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I am still looking for some more constructive help with this new monk class I built. It has access to less abilities then the pathfinder unbound monk has access to, and you don't get to pick your abilities either, you get the abilities listed at the levels they are listed at. Instead of giving monk the static damage reduction bypass they they normally have access to, I gave them what they had in 3.0 a static enhancement bonus to hit and damage.

The class is call the Unbound Monk.


You ask for constructive criticism then ignore it when you get it. I understand that you have less choice than with the unchained monk and while I quite like a lot of what you have done you have let him do to much for one class. The monk and unchained monk are not great classes but this is almost as good as a full caster and that's not okay. What I suggest is that you build 2 identical parties one with an unchained monk, one with your unbound monk at level 1, 5, 10, and 20 then testing them against the same challenges and see if the unbound monk is too powerful or not powerful enough or just right. At the end of the day it's your class so do what you want but we are trying to help. If any of this sounds rude I apologize I know tone is hard to portray through text


Dox of the ParaDox twins wrote:
You ask for constructive criticism then ignore it when you get it. I understand that you have less choice than with the unchained monk and while I quite like a lot of what you have done you have let him do to much for one class. The monk and unchained monk are not great classes but this is almost as good as a full caster and that's not okay. What I suggest is that you build 2 identical parties one with an unchained monk, one with your unbound monk at level 1, 5, 10, and 20 then testing them against the same challenges and see if the unbound monk is too powerful or not powerful enough or just right. At the end of the day it's your class so do what you want but we are trying to help. If any of this sounds rude I apologize I know tone is hard to portray through text

I will try that out.

I didn't ignore what I was told I have made huge changes to the class as I originally designed. It was originally made it so he had unlimited dimensionally agility. Now it is at most at level 2 able to be used 1 time before you rest to gain back your psi points. The points as listed are at most in my opinion 1/4 caster.

If you some how get your wisdom to 40 you will have 97 psi points, where as a full Psion would have 493 psi points to work with, requiring points to cast psi abilities equel to the level you have to be to cast them.

I understand people's reasoning for thinking I'm disregarding people's input but I am not. I have listened to people.

I will try out what you suggested. Also might I point out that my monk class over all gets less abilities and can't use most of his abilities as they use portals to use a lot of their abilities. So a well placed dimensional anchor or dimensional lock stops him from using most of his abilities.

I do appreciate your input though.


That's fair, let me know how that method of testing works, I've used it since 2nd edition for homebrew so


Dox of the ParaDox twins wrote:
That's fair, let me know how that method of testing works, I've used it since 2nd edition for homebrew so

I have a question about you saying it is almost as good as a full caster, what did you mean, as the points he gets access to don't equate to that, are you talking about the fact i made his manifester level equal his unbound level?


Kinda, it's really the versatility combined with the martial strength


Dox of the ParaDox twins wrote:
Kinda, it's really the versatility combined with the martial strength

Would you suggest i limit their manifaster level to half their unbound level?

I also put in to the abilities that use portals to use the abilities that if they are in an area that blocks teleportation, they can use these abilities.


No I didn't think about how hard anti magic or dimensional lock/anchor shut you down, I'm not entirely sure what I'd do to the class honestly it just seems like a really powerful 3/4 caster in a sense...I don't know, would you like me to do some testing in some mock battles and give you a more informed critique?


Dox of the ParaDox twins wrote:
No I didn't think about how hard anti magic or dimensional lock/anchor shut you down, I'm not entirely sure what I'd do to the class honestly it just seems like a really powerful 3/4 caster in a sense...I don't know, would you like me to do some testing in some mock battles and give you a more informed critique?

If you don't mind doing that, i would appreciate that.

I will do the same myself.

I will tell you then when i first created the class at the end of 2015 it essentially had unlimited teleport as his dimensional agility could be used over and over again with out limit to the number of times it could be used, it was still double your speed.


Hmm, yeah ill get back to you probably Monday with my results


Dox of the ParaDox twins wrote:
Hmm, yeah ill get back to you probably Monday with my results

I will have my results on Monday if possible or Tuesday as i have exams this week.


Good luck on exams


Dox of the ParaDox twins wrote:
Good luck on exams

Thanks


Dox of the ParaDox twins wrote:
Hmm, yeah ill get back to you probably Monday with my results

You may want to look at the class again i tweaked when the abilities are gained, as to make it not so insane at lower levels.

You now gain Dimensional Agility at 4th level instead of 2nd level, there are a few more changes as well.

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It's an improvement, but I'm still very much opposed to Mind Over Matter and Dimensional Enhancements. An ability that adds one score instead of another score for any attack/damage/check is lazy design that's incredibly powerful. And giving out free constant weapon enhancement bonuses is kind of a no-no because it's assumed that characters need to buy gear to augment their attacks. That's just how the game works. It's especially bad considering this class gets it before a normal monk can afford an amulet of mighty fists.

Dimensional Agility needs completely rewritten because it makes absolutely no mechanical sense. It's a standard action to use, but you have text that explains how you use it during a full-attack action. It gives a bonus on concentration checks when using teleportation spells, but this monk doesn't have spells and dimensional agility is a supernatural ability, which doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity.

Dimensional Limbs doesn't say what the duration is despite the text requiring you to spend points to activate it. Since it mimics the long arm spell and only costs 1 point to use, it should only last one round.


Cyrad wrote:

It's an improvement, but I'm still very much opposed to Mind Over Matter and Dimensional Enhancements. An ability that adds one score instead of another score for any attack/damage/check is lazy design that's incredibly powerful. And giving out free constant weapon enhancement bonuses is kind of a no-no because it's assumed that characters need to buy gear to augment their attacks. That's just how the game works. It's especially bad considering this class gets it before a normal monk can afford an amulet of mighty fists.

Dimensional Agility needs completely rewritten because it makes absolutely no mechanical sense. It's a standard action to use, but you have text that explains how you use it during a full-attack action. It gives a bonus on concentration checks when using teleportation spells, but this monk doesn't have spells and dimensional agility is a supernatural ability, which doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity.

Dimensional Limbs doesn't say what the duration is despite the text requiring you to spend points to activate it. Since it mimics the long arm spell and only costs 1 point to use, it should only last one round.

I believe you misunderstood the dimensional agility ability, I will check again but I believe it says it can't be used during a full attack, but can be used if you make a single attack but only before the attack or after it.

I was thinking about the enhancement bonus to attack and damage, paladins get it as well as a few more classes if you pick the right arctype. But I was thinking about making it so that they have to spend an hour in the morning in meditation and spend points equal to 2 maybe 3 times the bonus, to have it active for 24 hours, or until they fall uncouncous.

Let me check the ability again.

Ok i have just fixed dimensional ability to make more sense, tell me what you think.


Cyrad wrote:

It's an improvement, but I'm still very much opposed to Mind Over Matter and Dimensional Enhancements. An ability that adds one score instead of another score for any attack/damage/check is lazy design that's incredibly powerful. And giving out free constant weapon enhancement bonuses is kind of a no-no because it's assumed that characters need to buy gear to augment their attacks. That's just how the game works. It's especially bad considering this class gets it before a normal monk can afford an amulet of mighty fists.

Dimensional Agility needs completely rewritten because it makes absolutely no mechanical sense. It's a standard action to use, but you have text that explains how you use it during a full-attack action. It gives a bonus on concentration checks when using teleportation spells, but this monk doesn't have spells and dimensional agility is a supernatural ability, which doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity.

Dimensional Limbs doesn't say what the duration is despite the text requiring you to spend points to activate it. Since it mimics the long arm spell and only costs 1 point to use, it should only last one round.

What do you not like about mind over matter.

Is it the fact that they can use their wisdom for carrying capacity, or that they get wisdom to attack bonus and damage, it does not replace strength for skill checkes, unless i worded it that way, if i did i will ix that, there are feats you can get that will change some of your skills to wisdom, like climb, i think it is called monkey moves, monkey style also allows you to add your wisdom to acrobatic checks.

I just remembered a post about Combat Maneuvers, someone from paizo said that if you can add a different stat to your attack rolls and the weapon you are using can be used to make that combat maneuver you are trying to make you can add that stat instead of strength, will using weapon finesse with a spiked chain, i can be used to make both trip and disarm attempts.

It might have been an faq.

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Dimensional Agility makes more sense now.

The paladin doesn't get free permanent enhancement bonuses. Divine bond's enhancement bonuses only last a few minutes, and the ability can only be activated a limited amount of times per day. The only classes I can think of that get free permanent enhancement bonuses to a weapon is the bladebound magus, which is one of the most powerful archetypes that class has. Even the black blade can't be further enhanced.

I recommend either scrapping the enhancement bonuses or moving the ability to 5th level and have it work like divine bond. Don't resort to a meditation mechanic or some other binary clutch to balance it.

I don't like Mind Over Matter because it lets you substitute one ability score for another for attack and damage rolls. It's lazy design that throws a monkey wrench into the ability score dynamics and makes little-to-no sense thematic-wise when you really think about it. It's also totally unnecessary power added to this class, especially when you keep adding powerful abilities at low levels.

Overall, I honestly recommend just retooling the whole class to have actual psionic powers. You can use the psychic warrior as a frame of reference.


Cyrad wrote:

Dimensional Agility makes more sense now.

The paladin doesn't get free permanent enhancement bonuses. Divine bond's enhancement bonuses only last a few minutes, and the ability can only be activated a limited amount of times per day. The only classes I can think of that get free permanent enhancement bonuses to a weapon is the bladebound magus, which is one of the most powerful archetypes that class has. Even the black blade can't be further enhanced.

I recommend either scrapping the enhancement bonuses or moving the ability to 5th level and have it work like divine bond. Don't resort to a meditation mechanic or some other binary clutch to balance it.

I don't like Mind Over Matter because it lets you substitute one ability score for another for attack and damage rolls. It's lazy design that throws a monkey wrench into the ability score dynamics and makes little-to-no sense thematic-wise when you really think about it. It's also totally unnecessary power added to this class, especially when you keep adding powerful abilities at low levels.

Overall, I honestly recommend just retooling the whole class to have actual psionic powers. You can use the psychic warrior as a frame of reference.

What types of powers would you recommend then.

I want the class to still have enhancement bonus to speed, flurry of blows and I will retool the the enhancement bonus to hit and damage to work just like the paladins divine bond.

I have to ask a question if you don't like mind over matter, I take it you don't like the rogues finesse training ability from pathfinder unbound.


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wintersrage wrote:
Cyrad wrote:

Dimensional Agility makes more sense now.

The paladin doesn't get free permanent enhancement bonuses. Divine bond's enhancement bonuses only last a few minutes, and the ability can only be activated a limited amount of times per day. The only classes I can think of that get free permanent enhancement bonuses to a weapon is the bladebound magus, which is one of the most powerful archetypes that class has. Even the black blade can't be further enhanced.

I recommend either scrapping the enhancement bonuses or moving the ability to 5th level and have it work like divine bond. Don't resort to a meditation mechanic or some other binary clutch to balance it.

I don't like Mind Over Matter because it lets you substitute one ability score for another for attack and damage rolls. It's lazy design that throws a monkey wrench into the ability score dynamics and makes little-to-no sense thematic-wise when you really think about it. It's also totally unnecessary power added to this class, especially when you keep adding powerful abilities at low levels.

Overall, I honestly recommend just retooling the whole class to have actual psionic powers. You can use the psychic warrior as a frame of reference.

What types of powers would you recommend then.

I want the class to still have enhancement bonus to speed, flurry of blows and I will retool the the enhancement bonus to hit and damage to work just like the paladins divine bond.

I have to ask a question if you don't like mind over matter, I take it you don't like the rogues finesse training ability from pathfinder unbound.

I have completely retooled the class, i don not have a list of powers yet, they will come later the week, a lot of the abilities that required psi points to use will now be included as psi powers.

In regards to the enhancement bonus to hit and damage i will give them greater magic weapon as unarmed strike count as both manufactured and natural weapons for feats and abilities that can effect them.

Tell me what you think of the unbound monk now.


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I have once again worked the class some more,making it a true psionic class, as a more focused psychic warrior, they get a few extra powers because they do not have nearly as many abilities as the psychic warrior from the psionics unleashed book from Dreamscarred Press.

I now have a list of powers for the class that they can use, a lot of what i was trying to do with the powers before are psionic powers to be begin with, they don't last as long but they do a lot of what i was trying to do anyways.

Anyways take a loot at the new version of the Unbound Monk.


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Claxon wrote:

My initial thoughts are that you're using Psionics, not Psychic magic which originated in occult adventures. But psionics, as that thing that was there in 3.5 and has been done as a 3rd party book for Pathfinder by...I'm not actually sure who.

dream scare press is who your thinking of (not sure it i spelt it right tho)


Lady-J wrote:
Claxon wrote:

My initial thoughts are that you're using Psionics, not Psychic magic which originated in occult adventures. But psionics, as that thing that was there in 3.5 and has been done as a 3rd party book for Pathfinder by...I'm not actually sure who.

dream scare press is who your thinking of (not sure it i spelt it right tho)

Did you take a look Lady-J if so what are your impressions.


wintersrage wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
Claxon wrote:

My initial thoughts are that you're using Psionics, not Psychic magic which originated in occult adventures. But psionics, as that thing that was there in 3.5 and has been done as a 3rd party book for Pathfinder by...I'm not actually sure who.

dream scare press is who your thinking of (not sure it i spelt it right tho)
Did you take a look Lady-J if so what are your impressions.

i tend to stay far far away from psyonics so my input on that regard will be unreliable but it looks like a core monk with all the problems of a core monk with less monk abilities but gains spells i think are psyonic powers spells? if they are like spells it might balence out with them being able to cast 6th level spells if not it might needs some bolstering, again i havent really touched psyonics so i might be way off in my assessment


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Dox of the ParaDox twins wrote:
Hmm, yeah ill get back to you probably Monday with my results

I have completely revamped the class you may want to take a look again. It is now a try psionic character.


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For the changes i made do you think that the class now has not enough built in abilities that are not powers.

Before people here telling me i had to many static abilities. Now im afraid that i don't have enough in the Unbound Monk.


after looking into it a bit more i think it would be better off being caped at level 4 powers but getting full bab and d10 hd and make the flurry more like the unchained monk flurry


Lady-J wrote:
after looking into it a bit more i think it would be better off being caped at level 4 powers but getting full bab and d10 hd and make the flurry more like the unchained monk flurry

If i restrict him to 4th level powers it will be 13th level before he can use Dimensional Agility and cast dimensional door, unless i give him as a 3rd level power. I could use the paladin list of spells as a basis for the power he would get, just adding in a few more of the feats that fit the dimensional theme, like making oneself invisible, concealment and the like.

I actually like that idea, im going use it.


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I think i have developed this class as far as i can now, i would like a way to have dimensional agility earlier, but i don't think there are any other powers that would work with the feat.


wintersrage wrote:
I think i have developed this class as far as i can now, i would like a way to have dimensional agility earlier, but i don't think there are any other powers that would work with the feat.

since your going into home brew anyway make a 1st level power that is a very limited dimention dooresk spell, also side note 4th level casters get their spells starting at 4th level instead of at level 1 just thought i would give you a heads up


Lady-J wrote:
wintersrage wrote:
I think i have developed this class as far as i can now, i would like a way to have dimensional agility earlier, but i don't think there are any other powers that would work with the feat.
since your going into home brew anyway make a 1st level power that is a very limited dimention dooresk spell, also side note 4th level casters get their spells starting at 4th level instead of at level 1 just thought i would give you a heads up

I understand your reasoning about the spells at level 4 instead of level 1 but i wanted them to be a full manifester and if i was to give them their powers at level 4 they would be a manifester of 17th level, i want to to be able to gain the full benefits of spells, like metaphysical weapon and the like.

I don't see how i could justify making them a full caster and only starting their spells at level 4.

Anyhow, i took a page from 5th edition and gave the class their powers at 1st level even though they are only considered to be a half caster, when determining how their spells stack for multi-casting, of in this case multi manifester.

I know this is not 5th edition, but it was the only reason i could justify giving them psionic powers at 1st level.


wintersrage wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
wintersrage wrote:
I think i have developed this class as far as i can now, i would like a way to have dimensional agility earlier, but i don't think there are any other powers that would work with the feat.
since your going into home brew anyway make a 1st level power that is a very limited dimention dooresk spell, also side note 4th level casters get their spells starting at 4th level instead of at level 1 just thought i would give you a heads up

I understand your reasoning about the spells at level 4 instead of level 1 but i wanted them to be a full manifester and if i was to give them their powers at level 4 they would be a manifester of 17th level, i want to to be able to gain the full benefits of spells, like metaphysical weapon and the like.

I don't see how i could justify making them a full caster and only starting their spells at level 4.

Anyhow, i took a page from 5th edition and gave the class their powers at 1st level even though they are only considered to be a half caster, when determining how their spells stack for multi-casting, of in this case multi manifester.

I know this is not 5th edition, but it was the only reason i could justify giving them psionic powers at 1st level.

blood rager doesnt get spells till 4th level but gets a caster level per bloodrager level only ranger and paladin specify that they get caster level of level -3 at 4th level if you want them to be full levels in casting just dont put in the level -3 caster level part

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