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I am posting this because I promised Bob I would. I will try and format it , but today isn't a really good day. Bob says it gives martials an edge, I don't entirely agree.
What Hit Points Represent: Hit points represent the ability to shrug off physical punishment and keep going.
Hit point recovery functions as recovering from non-lethal damage.
Effects of Hit Point Damage: Damage doesn't slow you down until your current hit points reach 0. At 0 hit points, you're disabled. Any further hit point damage taken when hit points are at zero are applied to Body Points
Non-lethal damage is never applied to Body Points.
Resistance or Immunity to non-lethal damage no longer exists. It is replaced by resistance/immunity to becoming disabled when reduced to 0 Hit Points.
Kineticist Burn recovery does not change.
Disabled (0 Hit Points)
When your current hit point total drops to 0, you are disabled. You gain the staggered condition and can only take a single move or standard action each turn (but not both, nor can you take full-round actions). You can take move actions without further injuring yourself, but if you perform any standard action (or any other strenuous action) you take 1 point of Body damage after completing the act.
As long as you are not disabled/incapacitated by Body Point damage (see below) healing that raises your Hit Points above 0 makes you fully functional again, just as if you'd never been reduced to 0 or fewer hit points.
Body point damage is treated as lethal damage for the purposes of damage recovery.
Being reduced to your size bonus or below requires a Fortitude save to avoid becoming Disabled (See Above). You must make this saving throw each time your Body Point total changes, but remains within the Size Bonus. (Hit Points (If any remain) are reduced to zero.)
Being reduced to zero Body Points or below causes unavoidable incapacitation or unconsciousness, and requires a fortitude save (DC 20 + damage taken beyond zero) each round to avoid Death. Each required saving throw reduces Body Points by one if successful.
Successful Stabilization prevents the need for further Fortitude saves as long as the subject is not disturbed. Moving a stabilized target safely requires a treat wounds roll to avoid destabilizing the target.
Constitution + Size Bonus + Misc. Adds (if allowed)
Size Bonus:
Small +4
Medium +8
Large +16
- Training, up to Constitution Bonus + Hit Dice
- Favored class: HP (+1 HP per level)
- Toughness Feat (+1 HP per level)
- Area effect and non-targeted attacks Never bypass Hit Point Damage. Never, Ever.
- Coup de Gras attacks do Body damage
- Critical Hits do minimum damage to Body Points, and normal rolled Hit Point damage
- Attacks vs flat footed/Dex denied opponents do 1 Body Point per die rolled, plus normal hp damage
- Cleave: A successful follow on cleave attack roll does minimum damage to Body Points to original target,
- Great Cleave allows a roll to do Hit Point damage to a second target, and a second roll to apply Body Point damage to the second target, and so on.
- Successful Bleed attacks first point of bleed damage is applied to Body Points
Healing Active targets heals 1/2 roll to Body Points and 1/2 roll to Hit Points
Healing Resting targets heals full roll to Body Points and to Hit Points
If no Body Point Damage exists, double the healing to Hit Points
OK that was a tall wall of text, but kind of had to be. Up for an explanation now.
I was originally going for a more static hit point system, and I previously posted a bare bones version of it. The forum and my friend Bob seriously disabused me of the execution. Bob liked the idea of a more realistic simulation of "Meat" damage, but my execution sucked failed.
The biggest effect is of adding a "health status" of hurt, but not incapacitated and dying.
It also gives a little more survivability for low level/hit-dice characters and monsters. It also makes building sized monsters harder to finish off, which I am OK with.
It de-emphasizes a requirement for healing, but doesn't really devalue it much.
This would work fine at low levels, but falls apart at higher levels when the minimum damage of critical hits easily exceeds a typical character's body points. It seems body points don't scale with level or constitution bonus unless allowed, so a typical adventurer will stay at ~22 body points from levels 1 to 20, assuming they're medium with 14 constitution. They only need to take 14 body damage to become disabled. As levels increase, it's very easy to get more attacks per round and higher static damage numbers, meaning you'll be subject to more critical hits per round for higher body damage. I don't think the miscellaneous additions would be able to keep up with the ever scaling offense.
This would work fine at low levels, but falls apart at higher levels when the minimum damage of critical hits easily exceeds a typical character's body points. It seems body points don't scale with level or constitution bonus unless allowed, so a typical adventurer will stay at ~22 body points from levels 1 to 20, assuming they're medium with 14 constitution. They only need to take 14 body damage to become disabled. As levels increase, it's very easy to get more attacks per round and higher static damage numbers, meaning you'll be subject to more critical hits per round for higher body damage. I don't think the miscellaneous additions would be able to keep up with the ever scaling offense.
I agree; minimum crit damage at higher levels is problematic. However, this idea has merit. Not sure how to fix it "elegantly", as I have tinkered/theory crafted with many alternate hit point systems, and they all have a weak spot. But, I like most of what you've got here.
Thanks both of you, my intention on Crits was having them do minimum Base damage to Body Points. I rather failed to put that in. Thanks for pointing it out.
Got some offline comments to share.
Navy says, "Only Coup de Gras bypasses Hit Points."
Rock says the following.
Area effect and non-targeted attacks Never bypass Hit Point Damage. Never, Ever.
Coup de Gras attacks do Body damage
Critical Hits do 1/2 BAB (or full BAB) to Body Points, and normal rolled Hit Point damage
Attacks vs flat footed/Dex denied opponents do 1 Body Point per die rolled, plus normal Hit Point damage
Cleave: A successful follow on cleave attack roll does 1/3 BAB damage to Body Points to original target, (or 1/2 Strength bonus, or full Strength bonus)
Successful Bleed attacks first point of bleed damage is applied to Body Points
Got some offline comments to share.
Navy says, "Only Coup de Gras bypasses Hit Points."
Rock says the following.
Area effect and non-targeted attacks Never bypass Hit Point Damage. Never, Ever.
Coup de Gras attacks do Body damage
Critical Hits do 1/2 BAB (or full BAB) to Body Points, and normal rolled Hit Point damage
Attacks vs flat footed/Dex denied opponents do 1 Body Point per die rolled, plus normal Hit Point damage
Cleave: A successful follow on cleave attack roll does 1/3 BAB damage to Body Points to original target, (or 1/2 Strength bonus, or full Strength bonus)
Successful Bleed attacks first point of bleed damage is applied to Body Points
Interesting, I like where your head at. However, the BAB (or even 1/2 BAB) to Body on a crit means that, at high levels, crits kill. This sounds good; one imagines that when a skilled swordsman gets a good shot in, it should be potentially deadly. The problem is, it is just as easy to crit another skilled swordsman as it is to crit the village idiot. There is no accounting for the skill of the target. Now, the pitfalls and limitations of AC are a topic for another day, but I would caution against using BAB in this way.
Thanks both of you, my intention on Crits was having them do minimum Base damage to Body Points. I rather failed to put that in. Thanks for pointing it out.
So, are you saying that a crit from a Half-Orc barbarian 8, wielding a greataxe (Damage 1d12 + 18, 20/x3 crit), would do 3 points of body?
My original idea was to have only minimal body damage to bypass hit points. Most kills will be from the beatdown of hit points, then body. Precision attacks being the most effective at bypassing hitpoints. Remember that all those bypassing attacks are tearing down Hit Points as well.
I was more concerned with separating Meat from non-Meat damage.
Navy didn't even like this much, but was mostly ok with Coup de Gras.
Rock wanted more lethality as you can see. Personally if I wanted that much potential quick lethality, I would prefer a much more random method, like an unadjusted die roll, perhaps based on BAB.
Oh, the swordmaster has more methods to prevent any hit upon himself than the village idiot, and should be significantly harder to confirm that crit upon.
Oh, the swordmaster has more methods to prevent any hit upon himself than the village idiot, and should be significantly harder to confirm that crit upon.
Yes, his AC is higher, but my point is that the crit range is static, and creates a potential crit with the same chance, assuming a hit. Chances are, the other swordmaster can follow through at least half the time. = deadly. That's all.