It's About To Hit The Fan


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The Exchange

The Mad Comrade wrote:
Things have been getting worse for about forty years, which is why Trump won in the US, why Macron won France and why May's attempt to extend her party's control in Parliament backfired in the UK.

With the difference that electing Macron was the sensible thing to do, and giving Theresa May a lection about playing with the vote was obviously necessary.

Well and then there's nearly half of the U.S. voting for a dangerous lunatic.


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No, no. It was 26% of the US' eligible voting population, or about 19% of the total population, that voted for Trump. Nowhere near half of the US.


In news that aren't so much about s!~& hitting the fan, as it is about it completely missing the fan, maybe even failing to achieve lift-off: according to BFM TV, Front National may only be in contention for 1-4 seats (of 577 available) in the French National Assembly when it's time for the second round of voting, rather than the projected 15.


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Also in maybe not hitting the fan* news, Puerto Rico is voting today on a referendum for statehood.

Edit: Polls close at 3PM Eastern time. Results will be updated here.

* Yes, I know that if it passes in PR, the current Congress would never vote to admit them as a state...

Sovereign Court

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

Also in maybe not hitting the fan* news, Puerto Rico is voting today on a referendum for statehood.

Edit: Polls close at 3PM Eastern time. Results will be updated here.

* Yes, I know that if it passes in PR, the current Congress would never vote to admit them as a state...

Are you suggesting the bankers, who hold the majority of Puerto Rico's debt, would have more say on if they become a state then the people of Puerto Rico?


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Let's see... the result tracker there says Statehood is expected to win "decisively", but I feel like that's a little too mild of a word for the results I'm seeing there. "Overwhelmingly" might be a bit more appropriate.


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Guy Humual wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

Also in maybe not hitting the fan* news, Puerto Rico is voting today on a referendum for statehood.

Edit: Polls close at 3PM Eastern time. Results will be updated here.

* Yes, I know that if it passes in PR, the current Congress would never vote to admit them as a state...

Are you suggesting the bankers, who hold the majority of Puerto Rico's debt, would have more say on if they become a state then the people of Puerto Rico?

I wouldn't.

I'd suggest that the Republicans controlling Congress wouldn't allow a new state full of Hispanics very likely to vote Democratic. This has actually been a feature of US politics since the days we only admitted states in free state/slave state pairs to avoid upsetting the balance of power.

Bankers have very little to do with it. Two new Democratic Senators do.

The Exchange

Rednal wrote:
No, no. It was 26% of the US' eligible voting population, or about 19% of the total population, that voted for Trump. Nowhere near half of the US.

Sorry, but non-voters make themselves irrelevant, so why should I count them? They could have done the responsible thing but decided not to.

And as far as the popular vote goes, my point still stands.


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Because words should mean things. If you want to say "about half of all voters", that's what you should say. To do otherwise only invites covfefe confusion.


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Rednal wrote:
Because words should mean things. If you want to say "about half of all voters", that's what you should say. To do otherwise only invites covfefe confusion.

Well, you could say "Nearly three quarters of Americans didn't vote against the dangerous lunatic."


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Also, Puerto Rico is suffering some enormous financial crises, which Washington has kind of not helped all that much out with, despite Puerto Rico being a territory. Treating it as a state means actually putting more effort into helping Puerto Rico out.


thejeff wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

Also in maybe not hitting the fan* news, Puerto Rico is voting today on a referendum for statehood.

Edit: Polls close at 3PM Eastern time. Results will be updated here.

* Yes, I know that if it passes in PR, the current Congress would never vote to admit them as a state...

Are you suggesting the bankers, who hold the majority of Puerto Rico's debt, would have more say on if they become a state then the people of Puerto Rico?

I wouldn't.

I'd suggest that the Republicans controlling Congress wouldn't allow a new state full of Hispanics very likely to vote Democratic. This has actually been a feature of US politics since the days we only admitted states in free state/slave state pairs to avoid upsetting the balance of power.

Bankers have very little to do with it. Two new Democratic Senators do.

Yep. Statehood would mean 2 new Senators and 5 new Representatives, all likely voting Democrat. Ain't no way Republicans are gonna upset their majorities. Although, maybe the Dems should add it to their plank for 2018.


Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

Also in maybe not hitting the fan* news, Puerto Rico is voting today on a referendum for statehood.

Edit: Polls close at 3PM Eastern time. Results will be updated here.

* Yes, I know that if it passes in PR, the current Congress would never vote to admit them as a state...

Are you suggesting the bankers, who hold the majority of Puerto Rico's debt, would have more say on if they become a state then the people of Puerto Rico?

I wouldn't.

I'd suggest that the Republicans controlling Congress wouldn't allow a new state full of Hispanics very likely to vote Democratic. This has actually been a feature of US politics since the days we only admitted states in free state/slave state pairs to avoid upsetting the balance of power.

Bankers have very little to do with it. Two new Democratic Senators do.

Yep. Statehood would mean 2 new Senators and 5 new Representatives, all likely voting Democrat. Ain't no way Republicans are gonna upset their majorities. Although, maybe the Dems should add it to their plank for 2018.

Hmmm, I'd thought that it required supermajorities, but it seems to just be a normal act of Congress. Hell yeah. Run on it. (Assuming the referendum passes, of course.)


23% participation rate, I'm reading.

I, alas, haven't been following, but usually when the rate is so low it's because the independistas are boycotting.

Anyone know if that's the case today?

EDIT: From Reuters:

'BOGUS PLEBISCITE'

The island's two main opposition parties boycotted the vote, which gave Puerto Ricans three options: becoming a U.S. state; remaining a territory; or becoming an independent nation, with or without some continuing political association with the United States.

The boycott raised concerns of low voter turnout.

Puerto Rico's former governor Rafael Hernandez Colon said in a statement: "A contrived plebiscite fabricated an artificial majority for statehood by disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of Commonwealth supporters."

Rather than heading to the polls, some 500 Puerto Ricans marched on the streets of San Juan, waving Puerto Rico's flag and chanting in support of independence.

"This is a bogus plebiscite. Our future is independence. We need to be able to decide our own fate," said Liliana Laboy, one of the organizers of the protest.

(Reporting by Tracy Rucinski; editing by Dave Gregorio and Grant McCoo

EDIT 2: Went and looked up the two Puerto Rican opposition parties and then, after, the ruling party.

So, the party calling for statehood is the Partido Nuevo Progresista; oddly, from what little there was about the question on wikipedia, members of the PNP can be affiliated either with the Republicans or the Democrats (for example, the previous governor with the former, the present one with the latter; it lists seven gubernatorial candidates with about 3 affiliating with the Republicans and four with the Democrats).

One of the two opposition parties mentioned as boycotting is the Partido Popular Democrático; they are in favor of the status quo and, according to wikipedia, are mostly affiliated with the Democrats, although further down it says that, like the PNP, individual members can go either way.

Finally, the Partido Independentista Puertorriqueño who are also boycotting, but for the opposite reason; they seem to be unaffiliated with any mainland American party, but they are apparently a member of the Socialist International, so that would put their closest affiliates on the mainland as the Democratic Socialist of America. They apparently jettisoned all their M-L factions back in the early seventies.

Sovereign Court

thejeff wrote:

I wouldn't.

I'd suggest that the Republicans controlling Congress wouldn't allow a new state full of Hispanics very likely to vote Democratic. This has actually been a feature of US politics since the days we only admitted states in free state/slave state pairs to avoid upsetting the balance of power.

Bankers have very little to do with it. Two new Democratic Senators do.

I doubt it's strictly those rascally racist Republicans, this is 70 billion dollars or so we're talking about, and if the island could get Bankruptcy protection to restructure their debt a lot of people aren't getting paid what the island owes.


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Guy Humual wrote:
thejeff wrote:

I wouldn't.

I'd suggest that the Republicans controlling Congress wouldn't allow a new state full of Hispanics very likely to vote Democratic. This has actually been a feature of US politics since the days we only admitted states in free state/slave state pairs to avoid upsetting the balance of power.

Bankers have very little to do with it. Two new Democratic Senators do.

I doubt it's strictly those rascally racist Republicans, this is 70 billion dollars or so we're talking about, and if the island could get Bankruptcy protection to restructure their debt a lot of people aren't getting paid what the island owes.

Of course, of course. I'm sure there are bankers who don't like it either, but there is a perfectly simple, straightforward obvious political reason why this Congress wouldn't do it. There isn't any need to bribe anyone. Political advantage is sufficient.

70 billion dollars is pocket change compared to control of the Senate.


I have no idea, and I have no idea what this website's all about, but

Misconceptions about Puerto Rico and Statehood: Puerto Rico Would Be a Blue State


If I'm recalling correctly, Puerto Rico voted something like 51% for statehood in the last referendum. You are correct though that Congress has no desire to act on the issue, so effectively the vote is symbolic.

Community & Digital Content Director

Locking. Please refer to this post.

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