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The actual FAQ question is bolded at the bottom.
One argument is that the sneak attack damage is completely separate from the spell damage.
Another argument is that sneak attack damage deals whatever type of damage the spell deals and is therefore part of the spell's damage.
In addition this FAQ has a save for a fireball with sneak attack added which makes it seem like it could be part of the spell's damage.
How does the Surprise Spells class feature of the Arcane Trickster prestige class (Core Rulebook, page 378) work with spells like magic missile and fireball?The Surprise Spells class feature allows the Arcane Trickster to add his sneak attack dice to spells that deal damage that target flat-footed foes. This damage is only applied once per spell. In the case of fireball this means it affects all targets in the area, with each getting a save to halve the damage (including the sneak attack damage). In the case of magic missile, the extra damage is only added once to one missile, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.
Of course this could also be a special case for this PrC, and not a general rule for any other instance of sneak attack being combined with spells.
Do metamagic feats such as empower and maximize apply to the sneak attack damage that occurs when it is used with a spell?
I'd say no. The sneak attack damage added to the spell isn't a spell effect, and therefore is not affected by metamagic feats that apply to spell effects.
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As empower increases modifiers that are not part of the original spell (like those given by class, race and so on) I would say that the sneak attack will be empowered/maximized, but don't feel completely at ease with that reply. It is a question worth a FAQ.
Does it?
Empower Spell: If I use Empower Spell on a spell that has a die roll with a numerical bonus (such as cure moderate wounds), does the feat affect the numerical bonus?
Yes. For example, if you empower cure moderate wounds, the +50% from the feat applies to the 2d8 and to the level-based bonus.
In the given example, the increased bonus is a part of the original spell. I'm not sure if it affects bonuses that weren't part of the spell in the first place.
Page 122—In the Empower Spell feat, in the Benefit section, in the first paragraph, at the end of the first sentence add “including bonuses to those dice rolls.”The FAQ you cited: "posted July 2011", the change to the text: "Update 4.0 — Release Date: 11/22/11"
Good enough. However extra sneak attack damage isn't a bonus in the sense in which the term is used in the rules.
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Good enough. However extra sneak attack damage isn't a bonus in the sense in which the term is used in the rules.Page 122—In the Empower Spell feat, in the Benefit section, in the first paragraph, at the end of the first sentence add “including bonuses to those dice rolls.”The FAQ you cited: "posted July 2011", the change to the text: "Update 4.0 — Release Date: 11/22/11"
Yes, that is why I did say "(I) don't feel completely at ease with that reply" in my first post and clicked for the FAQ.
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I really am not sure it is, but I do think it is worth getting an answer to since sneak attack is not its own damage.
In 3.5 if you hit someone with vampiric touch then sneak attack counted as part of the spell, and how many hit points you got back.
I am aware that PF is not 3.5, but the wording is very similar, and sometimes exact, so knowing when Paizo wants to make things different is good to know.
I for one think that the sneak attack damage would be empowered.
I would vote no, but yes this is a bit muddy.
As far as I am familiar with them, sneak attack dice are not counted as "bonus" as they are not affected by a critical and usually clearly state that.
I feel that fireball statement portion was a rather poorly structured way of getting around another issue. That the application of the attack dice are also dependent on the spell successfully doing damage.
Now if someone came back and said "but these dice do get multiplied on a crit in this instance" ... well.. then all is fair game me thinks.
no.
Fireball does 10d6
empowered fireball does 10d6*1.5
adding sneak attack it's
10d6+5d6 sneak and 10d6*1.5+5d6 sneak. Sneak is being added on.
At first glance I'd agree with Chess Pwn, but SA counting as part of the spell's damage for the purpose of saving throws and not counting as part of the spell's damage for the purpose of empower seems really inconsistent and unintuitive to me.
sneak attack normally can't be on a fireball, and fireball is an always hit. So they told us a special rule for how to apply sneak attack to them for that specific class feature.
Reasoning is is that only with that special ability does saving throws reduce the damage you deal. It's the exception and will by being an exception to normal sneak attack, look different from normal sneak attack.