Bull Rushing a wall

[Alchemaic]

Can you Bull Rush a wall? Not into a wall. Bull Rushing a wall itself. Or any other solid object really, such as a tree, house, etc. Bull Rushing smaller movable objects (boulders, horses/carriages, etc.) falls within the normal use of the rules to an extent, but what about immovable objects or things that are intended to be immovable?

I'm mostly asking so I can figure out if my Bulette Charge Style character can Kool-Aid Man through a wall and into someone. Or into someone and through a wall. I'm not picky.

I know about Nothing Can Stop Me, but that's a different effect than what I'm looking for and I'd prefer something that's class-agnostic.

[quibblemuch]

HAHAHA!

Awesome visual.

But I'm pretty sure there isn't a way within the existing rules to make it work. First off--"immovable object" is kind of a difficult term to adjudicate. If you treat one 5-foot section of wall as an individual object, then you have to ask why not one brick in that wall? And when does a whole building stop being a whole building and become, mechanically, a collection of separate, yet somehow indivisible objects? It's the Ship of Theseus all over again! And that only ends in mereological nihilism...

That said, if, instead of bull rushing (which does no damage by default), you just charge-unarmed-strike the wall, and you can beat its break DC of 35* or overcome 8 hardness and 90 HP (assuming masonry wall: source), then you truly are a Kool-Aid Gaming God.

*EDIT: I'm sure someone out there has a PC build that can overcome a break DC of 35 at least 50% of the time.

[DM Livgin]

I love the visuals, but this is firmly in the territory of working with your GM to make kool-aid house rules.

[Alchemaic]

quibblemuch wrote:

That said, if, instead of bull rushing (which does no damage by default), you just charge-unarmed-strike the wall, and you can beat its break DC of 35* or overcome 8 hardness and 90 HP (assuming masonry wall: source), then you truly are a Kool-Aid Gaming God.

*EDIT: I'm sure someone out there has a PC build that can overcome a break DC of 35 at least 50% of the time.

Again, the main reason I want to do it this way is because, unlike a charging unarmed strike, this would allow me to continue moving through the wall.

It also occurs to be that breaking items doesn't have an action listed, so I think the assumption is a Standard.

[quibblemuch]

Alchemaic wrote:

quibblemuch wrote:

That said, if, instead of bull rushing (which does no damage by default), you just charge-unarmed-strike the wall, and you can beat its break DC of 35* or overcome 8 hardness and 90 HP (assuming masonry wall: source), then you truly are a Kool-Aid Gaming God.

*EDIT: I'm sure someone out there has a PC build that can overcome a break DC of 35 at least 50% of the time.

Again, the main reason I want to do it this way is because, unlike a charging unarmed strike, this would allow me to continue moving through the wall.

Again, no, there are no rules that allow this.

Moreover, the bull rush rules explicitly forbid you from bull rushing a creature into a square that occupied by a solid object or obstacle. I'm pretty sure there are feats that let you do that, but since that's not of interest to you, I'm not going to bother looking them up.

[Prof. Löwenzahn]

Raging Throw damages solid objects when you bullrush someone into. So you have to look at hardness and hit Points of the material and see if you can reliably break through walls.

[Prof. Löwenzahn]

Damaging Objects

Masonry wall has 90HP, no Chance.

but doors are easier. A simple wooden door has Hardness 5 and 10HP, so when you can pull off 15 with Str+Con (relatively easy for a Barbarian), you can rush opponents through a door.

[quibblemuch]

On the other hand, if you took 1 level of an arcane casting class (or cleric of Sivanah), you could use silent image to create a wall that burst asunder when you walked through it.

[The Black Bard]

As others have said, by RAW its pretty much a no go.

As a DM who frequently prefers this kind of stuff, here is my houserule for it:

Bust-a-Move Houserule:

+10 to break DC as part of movement, +5 as part of a charge (the break check is not the attack at the end). Failing check obviously stops the movement.

So an ogre (+5 str, +4 size), can't just walk through a wooden wall (Dc 20+10), but he might be able to charge through one (DC 20+5), and can certainly pound through one (DC 20)

But lets take something gargantuan, like a T-Rex (+11 Str, +12 size). It cant fail to break through a wooden wall with a standard action, and with my rules it can not only do it reliably on a charge, but it can even take 10 and succeed while moving normally (DC 20+10 again, vrs 10 +23).

Against a masonry wall (DC 35 base), the Rex can break through with a charge but has to roll well, but can't just walk around crushing stone walls.

But what about a great wyrm red dragon? With a break modifier of +31, it can reliably break through on a charge, and has a solid chance of just knocking over masonry walls with basic movement.

I've actually modded some of the break DCs (Masonry is honestly too high, and I have construction experience to back that up) and added new ones for busting trees, hedges, small fences, etc. I like to let the actions of combat directly alter the battlefield, so I tend to have massive creature movement and attacks create/remove difficult terrain from smashed buildings, trampled undergrowth, shattered cobblestones, etc. As always, your mileage may vary.

[RealAlchemy]

quibblemuch wrote:

Alchemaic wrote:

quibblemuch wrote:

That said, if, instead of bull rushing (which does no damage by default), you just charge-unarmed-strike the wall, and you can beat its break DC of 35* or overcome 8 hardness and 90 HP (assuming masonry wall: source), then you truly are a Kool-Aid Gaming God.

*EDIT: I'm sure someone out there has a PC build that can overcome a break DC of 35 at least 50% of the time.

Again, the main reason I want to do it this way is because, unlike a charging unarmed strike, this would allow me to continue moving through the wall.

Again, no, there are no rules that allow this.

Moreover, the bull rush rules explicitly forbid you from bull rushing a creature into a square that occupied by a solid object or obstacle. I'm pretty sure there are feats that let you do that, but since that's not of interest to you, I'm not going to bother looking them up.

Spring attack - move, attack wall, and move. Now find a way to beat the break DC or the 8 hardness and 90 HP with a single swing and no vital strike :) Have fun!

[Bob Bob Bob]

OH YEAH!

Only good way I found to do it is Strength Surge and just make the straight Strength check though. Walls have too much health otherwise. Doors are a nice target though (normal doors cap at 20 HP, even a solid iron door is only 60 HP).

In response to the original question, I think you answered that already? I mean, by definition an "immovable" object can't be moved. Though since Bulette style is all about Overrun, did you mean that instead of Bull Rush? Because that would require "you can attempt to overrun your target, moving through its square", which I'm pretty sure you can't do with a solid obstacle. But yeah, either way you break through walls with a Strength check or an attack (or spells, but that's a bit... different).