Mauler Archetype Strength Adjustment

[Driver_325yards]

If you have a Rhamphorhynchus familiar with the mauler archetype, what is his strength adjustment when he goes from tiny to medium.

Is it +4 (tiny to small size) and +4 (small to medium size) for a total of a +8 adjustment? I know that he would also have strength adjustments from the archetype, but I am trying to get the size adjustment correct.

[lemeres]

you are supposed to use the polymorph chary appearantly. so no small to medium bonus.

[Driver_325yards]

What is the polymorph chary?

[lemeres]

Driver_325yards wrote:

What is the polymorph chary?

i think it is under the magic section of the core rule book.

[Melkiador]

Polymorph
If you scroll to the bottom of the polymorph section, you will see the polymorph chart.

[Driver_325yards]

I see nothing in the link provided that say that a Rhamphorhynchus is a polymorph chary. And I see nothing in the link provided that says what a polymorph chary is.

Can someone explain this to me like a baby? Bottomline, I am just trying to figure out how to calculate the strength of a Mauler Rhamphorhynchus

[Imbicatus]

Chary is a misspelling of Chart. The Rhamphorhynchus is tiny so it's adjusted to small size for a +4 str and a -2 dex for being brought to small, with no additional adjustments for going to medium. You then apply the str adjustment granted by being a mauler.

[Driver_325yards]

Thank you so much. I was lost. I thought a chary was some type of bird

[Driver_325yards]

So I guess the point is that switching into battle form is considered a polymorph change?

[Melkiador]

Driver_325yards wrote:

So I guess the point is that switching into battle form is considered a polymorph change?

That is the intention of the designer, though it isn't explicitly spelt out in the text.

[Ravingdork]

Which is complete BS. There's absolutely nothing in the rules that even hints you are supposed to use that table over the other one, and it totally neuters the mauler's combat effectiveness to the point of "why even bother?"

It doesn't even make sense. The table has an entry for going from tiny to small, or dimunitive to small, but the mauler always become medium, so the developer's "clarification" is downright confusing to boot!

[Chess Pwn]

there's also nothing that would make you think to use the monster table.

And I've seen enough builds that show it's more capable than an animal companion, so that's why one would bother.

[lemeres]

Ravingdork wrote:

Which is complete BS. There's absolutely nothing in the rules that even hints you are supposed to use that table over the other one, and it totally neuters the mauler's combat effectiveness to the point of "why even bother?"

???

While some familiars suffer, you can easily make a fox with 16 str (at level 3, after all the addition) that later gets +8 str as it levels (similar to a barbarian's rage. Flying fox bats also get similar numbers for a flyer.

So that seems perfectly acceptable, particularly when it uses your BAB. it doesn't need 20 starting strength. It would likely have better attack bonus than its master at that point.

[Melkiador]

Chess Pwn wrote:

there's also nothing that would make you think to use the monster table.

To be clear, there's nothing to show that you should use either table over the other, based on the text alone. And so, with one table being just as good as the other, you should use the one the designer intended.

And yeah, I'd say the mauler is far from useless, though it is incredibly niche. I don't know if I'd use it with anything other than an eldritch guardian.

[Dave Justus]

The thing that tells you which chart to use is that the polymorph chart is for magical effects that change size, while the designing monsters chart chart is exclusively for use by GMs in advancing monsters.

The 'monster size chart' is never used by an in-game effect, it is a GM tool, not a mechanical rule.

[Melkiador]

The polymorph chart is for polymorph effects. You are never told to generically use it for generic magical size changes, see enlarge person.

[lemeres]

both of the charts are out of the normal player's use. monster charts tend to be for GMs, but the polymorph chart is for changes of large+ and tiny- sized creatures. both are not well represented in the system, since players use small and medium creatures. you often only see poly morph stuff if you baleful polymorph a trex into a kitten.

so i am willing to go with whatever a dev said on the matter.

[Melkiador]

Another oddity is that you are never told to adjust anything other than your strength, so it's possible your dexterity and such stay the same.