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I've seen previous posts, and they seemed inconclusive on this point (unless I missed one somewhere).
In particular, I'm looking at this part of the feat:
"An invisible attacker gets no advantages related to hitting you in melee. That is, you don’t lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and the attacker doesn’t get the usual +2 bonus for being invisible."
My question is, if the attacker is doing other things which would cause you to lose your Dexterity, such as sneaking up on you, do you still not lose your Dexterity bonus?
RAW as far as I can see implies that if the attacker is invisible then you don't lose your Dexterity bonus no matter what he's doing. In some ways, you are better against invisible opponents against visible ones. That doesn't seem too odd to me - blind people often have enhanced non-visual senses.
It does lead to the curious situation, though, that if a hidden invisible rogue 5' stepped out of cover and attacked you, and you have Blind Fight, then he wont sneak attack you on the first attack, but when he then becomes visible he will (assuming you didn't hear him).
Is this right?
Richard
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The rules are not written perfectly. The most literal interpretation means they must be invisible for the feat to work.
However, that is not the intent.
As for your scenario the rogue would become visible after the first attack, and he can't sneak attack unless you are flanked.
What's the sensible way for this to work?
Richard
If someone can dodge(get dex to AC) a hiding invisible opponent they can dodge an opponent who is hiding but not invisible. That is sensible to me since being visible makes someone easier to deal with. I am assuming you are asking about blind fight vs a hidden, but not invisible opponent.
If you are asking about the scenario only certain conditions allow for sneak attack, and once someone is visible they don't qualify barring special situations.
That seems sensible.
I just want to know how Blind Fight should work and propose it to my GM that way before deciding whether to take the feat.
Richard
The way I described it is how it works, and I'd your GM rules differently I wouldn't take the feat.
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So just to summarise, if the only reason I'm losing Dex to you is because I can't see you, then if I have Blind Fight, I don't lose my Dex to you.
Is that right?
Richard
That's the intended function. It should provide that benefit in each of these cases:
- You're blind
- Enemy is invisible
- It's too dark to see the enemy
- There's too much mist/smoke to see the enemy
You can still be shanked with no dex if you're for example flat-footed due to surprise round.
Where it gets a bit uncertain is with "sneaking up on"; if you didn't know the BBEG had a rogue henchman and the henchman sneaks up on you in a dark room, he could still catch you unaware. And in that case blind-fight might not protect you.
So just to summarise, if the only reason I'm losing Dex to you is because I can't see you, then if I have Blind Fight, I don't lose my Dex to you.
Is that right?
Richard
It is protection from hidden enemies and surprise attacks, but not being flat-footed due to losing initiative. If you lose initiative then you still lose dex to AC.
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My question is, if the attacker is doing other things which would cause you to lose your Dexterity, such as sneaking up on you, do you still not lose your Dexterity bonus?
RAW as far as I can see implies that if the attacker is invisible then you don't lose your Dexterity bonus no matter what he's doing. In some ways, you are better against invisible opponents against visible ones. That doesn't seem too odd to me - blind people often have enhanced non-visual senses.
It does lead to the curious situation, though, that if a hidden invisible rogue 5' stepped out of cover and attacked you, and you have Blind Fight, then he wont sneak attack you on the first attack, but when he then becomes visible he will (assuming you didn't hear him).
Is this right?
Richard
If a character successfully uses stealth, you can't see them...so they are invisible. Blind Fight gives you the ability to retain your Dex against unseen opponents, be they truely unseeable, or just hidding.
As for the Rogue, Sneak Attack isn't it's own action, just a normal attack that, if certain conditions are met, does bonus damage. Setting up the conditions is up the Rogue, so they'd be wise to make sure their target meets multiple conditions in the off-chance that they are immune to one condition.
Successful Stealth means you have total concealment.
That is a specific condition.Invisibility is a different condition.
Blind fight has a couple of features of which some work against Concealment and some work against Invisibility.
"An invisible attacker gets no advantages related to hitting you in melee. That is, you don’t lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and the attacker doesn’t get the usual +2 bonus for being invisible. The invisible attacker’s bonuses do still apply for ranged attacks, however."
So no, it doesn't work against a creature who has successfully used stealth, because that doesn't give you invisibility.
Unless there is some errata or FAQ that indicates otherwise.
Is that your "literal reading of the rules" interpretation or your "this is how I believe the feature was intended to work" interpretation?