paizo.com Recent Posts in Why are Combat Maneuvers so frowned upon?paizo.com Recent Posts in Why are Combat Maneuvers so frowned upon?2017-04-07T21:36:21Z2017-04-07T21:36:21ZRe: Forums: Advice: Why are Combat Maneuvers so frowned upon?Ryan Freirehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u8uu&page=6?Why-are-Combat-Maneuvers-so-frowned-upon#2632017-04-11T19:31:23Z2017-04-11T19:31:23Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Lady-J wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Blymurkla wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I'm brining this thread back from its sickbed for this:</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Arbane the Terrible wrote:</div><blockquote><div class="messageboard-quotee">Balkoth wrote:</div><blockquote> Yes, people are arguing that a prone Dragon/Balor/Angel/etc can just start flying while crumpled on the ground instead of having to get up first. </blockquote>Seems PERFECTLY LOGICAL. They can fly while prone, it just means they stay prone in midair until they stand up. RAW, folks!</blockquote><p>I happened to stumble upon the <a href="http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary5/tiyanak.html#tiyanak" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Tiyanak</a>. It's a flying undead that has a special ability:
<p><b>Hobbling Gait (Ex)</b> A tiyanak never takes penalties from being prone. It can move at full speed while prone, and can fly without standing.</p>
<p>Now, bestiaries aren't the most reliable rules sources, but it's at least an indication that Paizo thinks a creature (other than a Tiyanak) needs to stand up before flying.</p>
<p>Don't know if it matters much for trip builds, though. </blockquote>what about supernatural flight or flight with perfect manuverability would a ghost need to stand up before it can float away? what about creatures whos flight are them just willing themselves to move in a given direction regardless of other forces like gravity? </blockquote><p>Seems like this is a case of trying to detail an abstract combat system a bit too much. In the same way that entangled can represent everything from webbing to vines around the arms to a dirty trick dropping your pants around your knees so you cant move freely, prone represents a position of vulnerability providing a bonus to melee and penalty to ranged that you must recover (stand up) from before moving freely.Lady-J wrote:Blymurkla wrote:I'm brining this thread back from its sickbed for this:
Arbane the Terrible wrote:Balkoth wrote: Yes, people are arguing that a prone Dragon/Balor/Angel/etc can just start flying while crumpled on the ground instead of having to get up first.
Seems PERFECTLY LOGICAL. They can fly while prone, it just means they stay prone in midair until they stand up. RAW, folks!I happened to stumble upon the Tiyanak. It's a flying undead that has a special ability: Hobbling...Ryan Freire2017-04-11T19:31:23ZRe: Forums: Advice: Why are Combat Maneuvers so frowned upon?Blymurklahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u8uu&page=6?Why-are-Combat-Maneuvers-so-frowned-upon#2622017-04-11T19:26:23Z2017-04-11T19:26:23Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Lady-J wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Blymurkla wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I'm brining this thread back from its sickbed for this:</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Arbane the Terrible wrote:</div><blockquote><div class="messageboard-quotee">Balkoth wrote:</div><blockquote> Yes, people are arguing that a prone Dragon/Balor/Angel/etc can just start flying while crumpled on the ground instead of having to get up first. </blockquote>Seems PERFECTLY LOGICAL. They can fly while prone, it just means they stay prone in midair until they stand up. RAW, folks!</blockquote><p>I happened to stumble upon the <a href="http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary5/tiyanak.html#tiyanak" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Tiyanak</a>. It's a flying undead that has a special ability:
<p><b>Hobbling Gait (Ex)</b> A tiyanak never takes penalties from being prone. It can move at full speed while prone, and can fly without standing.</p>
<p>Now, bestiaries aren't the most reliable rules sources, but it's at least an indication that Paizo thinks a creature (other than a Tiyanak) needs to stand up before flying.</p>
<p>Don't know if it matters much for trip builds, though. </blockquote>what about supernatural flight or flight with perfect manuverability would a ghost need to stand up before it can float away? what about creatures whos flight are them just willing themselves to move in a given direction regardless of other forces like gravity? </blockquote><p>The tiyanak has no wings in the bestiary art work, nor is any mentioned in the description. I suppose it flies magical (though it does not have perfect maneuverability).
<p>Either we have a situation where dire bats and rocs crawling on their backs in the dirt suddenly flying up with no effort, or we have ghosts and magical fliers having to stand up before they can fly. Neither option is great.</p>Lady-J wrote:Blymurkla wrote:I'm brining this thread back from its sickbed for this:
Arbane the Terrible wrote:Balkoth wrote: Yes, people are arguing that a prone Dragon/Balor/Angel/etc can just start flying while crumpled on the ground instead of having to get up first.
Seems PERFECTLY LOGICAL. They can fly while prone, it just means they stay prone in midair until they stand up. RAW, folks!I happened to stumble upon the Tiyanak. It's a flying undead that has a special ability: Hobbling...Blymurkla2017-04-11T19:26:23ZRe: Forums: Advice: Why are Combat Maneuvers so frowned upon?Lady-Jhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u8uu&page=6?Why-are-Combat-Maneuvers-so-frowned-upon#2612017-04-11T09:13:00Z2017-04-11T09:13:00Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Blymurkla wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I'm brining this thread back from its sickbed for this:</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Arbane the Terrible wrote:</div><blockquote><div class="messageboard-quotee">Balkoth wrote:</div><blockquote> Yes, people are arguing that a prone Dragon/Balor/Angel/etc can just start flying while crumpled on the ground instead of having to get up first. </blockquote>Seems PERFECTLY LOGICAL. They can fly while prone, it just means they stay prone in midair until they stand up. RAW, folks!</blockquote><p>I happened to stumble upon the <a href="http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary5/tiyanak.html#tiyanak" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Tiyanak</a>. It's a flying undead that has a special ability:
<p><b>Hobbling Gait (Ex)</b> A tiyanak never takes penalties from being prone. It can move at full speed while prone, and can fly without standing.</p>
<p>Now, bestiaries aren't the most reliable rules sources, but it's at least an indication that Paizo thinks a creature (other than a Tiyanak) needs to stand up before flying.</p>
<p>Don't know if it matters much for trip builds, though. </blockquote><p>what about supernatural flight or flight with perfect manuverability would a ghost need to stand up before it can float away? what about creatures whos flight are them just willing themselves to move in a given direction regardless of other forces like gravity?Blymurkla wrote:I'm brining this thread back from its sickbed for this:
Arbane the Terrible wrote:Balkoth wrote: Yes, people are arguing that a prone Dragon/Balor/Angel/etc can just start flying while crumpled on the ground instead of having to get up first.
Seems PERFECTLY LOGICAL. They can fly while prone, it just means they stay prone in midair until they stand up. RAW, folks!I happened to stumble upon the Tiyanak. It's a flying undead that has a special ability: Hobbling Gait (Ex) A...Lady-J2017-04-11T09:13:00ZRe: Forums: Advice: Why are Combat Maneuvers so frowned upon?Blymurklahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u8uu&page=6?Why-are-Combat-Maneuvers-so-frowned-upon#2602017-04-11T08:47:28Z2017-04-11T08:47:28Z<p>I'm brining this thread back from its sickbed for this:</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Arbane the Terrible wrote:</div><blockquote><div class="messageboard-quotee">Balkoth wrote:</div><blockquote> Yes, people are arguing that a prone Dragon/Balor/Angel/etc can just start flying while crumpled on the ground instead of having to get up first. </blockquote>Seems PERFECTLY LOGICAL. They can fly while prone, it just means they stay prone in midair until they stand up. RAW, folks!</blockquote><p>I happened to stumble upon the <a href="http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary5/tiyanak.html#tiyanak" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Tiyanak</a>. It's a flying undead that has a special ability:
<p><b>Hobbling Gait (Ex)</b> A tiyanak never takes penalties from being prone. It can move at full speed while prone, and can fly without standing.</p>
<p>Now, bestiaries aren't the most reliable rules sources, but it's at least an indication that Paizo thinks a creature (other than a Tiyanak) needs to stand up before flying.</p>
<p>Don't know if it matters much for trip builds, though.</p>I'm brining this thread back from its sickbed for this:
Arbane the Terrible wrote:Balkoth wrote: Yes, people are arguing that a prone Dragon/Balor/Angel/etc can just start flying while crumpled on the ground instead of having to get up first.
Seems PERFECTLY LOGICAL. They can fly while prone, it just means they stay prone in midair until they stand up. RAW, folks!I happened to stumble upon the Tiyanak. It's a flying undead that has a special ability: Hobbling Gait (Ex) A tiyanak never takes...Blymurkla2017-04-11T08:47:28ZRe: Forums: Advice: Why are Combat Maneuvers so frowned upon?Sara Mariehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u8uu&page=6?Why-are-Combat-Maneuvers-so-frowned-upon#2592017-04-10T05:13:03Z2017-04-06T00:27:41Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Cory Stafford 29 wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Sara Marie wrote:</div><blockquote> <span class=messageboard-ooc>Removed a post. "Social Justice Warrior/SJW" is not an appropriate insult on our messageboards. Additionally, please be careful with making political assumptions and reading more into someone else's post than what they have actually written. Our messageboard community is global and it is not a safe assumption that generic comments are specifically referencing US politics or social movements. </span> </blockquote>So referring to the current lawfully elected administration as "än evil empire" is A OK, but pointing out that their hypocritical virtue signalling has no place in a gaming thread isn't. How tolerant you leftists are. </blockquote><p>Cory, as I posted in my initial comment: Our messageboard community is global and it is not a safe assumption that generic comments are specifically referencing US politics or social movements. If you have further questions regarding moderation, take it to the Website Feedback forum or email community@paizo.com. Further posts continuing to derail this thread will be removed.Cory Stafford 29 wrote:Sara Marie wrote: Removed a post. "Social Justice Warrior/SJW" is not an appropriate insult on our messageboards. Additionally, please be careful with making political assumptions and reading more into someone else's post than what they have actually written. Our messageboard community is global and it is not a safe assumption that generic comments are specifically referencing US politics or social movements.
So referring to the current lawfully elected administration...Sara Marie2017-04-06T00:27:41ZRe: Forums: Advice: Why are Combat Maneuvers so frowned upon?Ryan Freirehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u8uu&page=6?Why-are-Combat-Maneuvers-so-frowned-upon#2582017-04-05T23:27:04Z2017-04-05T23:27:04Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">HenshinFanatic wrote:</div><blockquote> True but doing 3x unarmed strike damage from constrict, Wis mod x3 + 12 from the full Kraken Style tree, as well as being able to use all three grapple checks to do damage is just so insanely fun. Especially when you get asked how you defeated the evil giant causing trouble for the locals and all your character can say is "I hugged him REAL hard." </blockquote><p>Oh i mean im sold, im already statting up an onispawn tetori based off Kyofu experienced from L5r.HenshinFanatic wrote:True but doing 3x unarmed strike damage from constrict, Wis mod x3 + 12 from the full Kraken Style tree, as well as being able to use all three grapple checks to do damage is just so insanely fun. Especially when you get asked how you defeated the evil giant causing trouble for the locals and all your character can say is "I hugged him REAL hard."
Oh i mean im sold, im already statting up an onispawn tetori based off Kyofu experienced from L5r.Ryan Freire2017-04-05T23:27:04ZRe: Forums: Advice: Why are Combat Maneuvers so frowned upon?Cory Stafford 29https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u8uu&page=6?Why-are-Combat-Maneuvers-so-frowned-upon#2572017-04-07T21:36:21Z2017-04-05T23:18:36Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Sara Marie wrote:</div><blockquote> <span class=messageboard-ooc>Removed a post. "Social Justice Warrior/SJW" is not an appropriate insult on our messageboards. Additionally, please be careful with making political assumptions and reading more into someone else's post than what they have actually written. Our messageboard community is global and it is not a safe assumption that generic comments are specifically referencing US politics or social movements. </span> </blockquote><p>So referring to the current lawfully elected administration as "än evil empire" is A OK, but pointing out that their hypocritical virtue signalling has no place in a gaming thread isn't. How tolerant you leftists are.Sara Marie wrote:Removed a post. "Social Justice Warrior/SJW" is not an appropriate insult on our messageboards. Additionally, please be careful with making political assumptions and reading more into someone else's post than what they have actually written. Our messageboard community is global and it is not a safe assumption that generic comments are specifically referencing US politics or social movements.
So referring to the current lawfully elected administration as "än evil empire" is...Cory Stafford 292017-04-05T23:18:36ZRe: Forums: Advice: Why are Combat Maneuvers so frowned upon?Sammy Thttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u8uu&page=6?Why-are-Combat-Maneuvers-so-frowned-upon#2562017-04-05T19:51:56Z2017-04-05T19:51:56Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">HenshinFanatic wrote:</div><blockquote> True but doing 3x unarmed strike damage from constrict, Wis mod x3 + 12 from the full Kraken Style tree, as well as being able to use all three grapple checks to do damage is just so insanely fun. Especially when you get asked how you defeated the evil giant causing trouble for the locals and all your character can say is "I hugged him REAL hard." </blockquote><p>Don't forget <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/pinning-knockout-combat/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Pinning Knockout</a> - once they're pinned, it's lights out.HenshinFanatic wrote:True but doing 3x unarmed strike damage from constrict, Wis mod x3 + 12 from the full Kraken Style tree, as well as being able to use all three grapple checks to do damage is just so insanely fun. Especially when you get asked how you defeated the evil giant causing trouble for the locals and all your character can say is "I hugged him REAL hard."
Don't forget Pinning Knockout - once they're pinned, it's lights out.Sammy T2017-04-05T19:51:56ZRe: Forums: Advice: Why are Combat Maneuvers so frowned upon?Sara Mariehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u8uu&page=6?Why-are-Combat-Maneuvers-so-frowned-upon#2552017-04-07T14:39:53Z2017-04-05T18:02:02Z<p><span class=messageboard-ooc>Removed a post. "Social Justice Warrior/SJW" is not an appropriate insult on our messageboards. Additionally, please be careful with making political assumptions and reading more into someone else's post than what they have actually written. Our messageboard community is global and it is not a safe assumption that generic comments are specifically referencing US politics or social movements. </span></p>Removed a post. "Social Justice Warrior/SJW" is not an appropriate insult on our messageboards. Additionally, please be careful with making political assumptions and reading more into someone else's post than what they have actually written. Our messageboard community is global and it is not a safe assumption that generic comments are specifically referencing US politics or social movements.Sara Marie2017-04-05T18:02:02ZRe: Forums: Advice: Why are Combat Maneuvers so frowned upon?Goblin_Priesthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u8uu&page=6?Why-are-Combat-Maneuvers-so-frowned-upon#2542017-04-05T11:21:54Z2017-04-05T11:21:54Z<p>I don't know anything about the AP, but if someone wants to go tripper, he'd want as many melee buddies as possible with him to take advantage of the ops.</p>I don't know anything about the AP, but if someone wants to go tripper, he'd want as many melee buddies as possible with him to take advantage of the ops.Goblin_Priest2017-04-05T11:21:54ZRe: Forums: Advice: Why are Combat Maneuvers so frowned upon?HenshinFanatichttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u8uu&page=6?Why-are-Combat-Maneuvers-so-frowned-upon#2532017-04-05T05:54:22Z2017-04-05T03:24:08Z<p>True but doing 3x unarmed strike damage from constrict, Wis mod x3 + 12 from the full Kraken Style tree, as well as being able to use all three grapple checks to do damage is just so insanely fun. Especially when you get asked how you defeated the evil giant causing trouble for the locals and all your character can say is "I hugged him REAL hard."</p>True but doing 3x unarmed strike damage from constrict, Wis mod x3 + 12 from the full Kraken Style tree, as well as being able to use all three grapple checks to do damage is just so insanely fun. Especially when you get asked how you defeated the evil giant causing trouble for the locals and all your character can say is "I hugged him REAL hard."HenshinFanatic2017-04-05T03:24:08ZRe: Forums: Advice: Why are Combat Maneuvers so frowned upon?Ryan Freirehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u8uu&page=6?Why-are-Combat-Maneuvers-so-frowned-upon#2522017-04-05T03:14:23Z2017-04-05T03:14:23Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">HenshinFanatic wrote:</div><blockquote> When I play a grapple focused character I play a <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo-monk-archetypes/tetori/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Tetori</a> who grabs the full line of <a href="https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/kraken-style-combat-style/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Kraken Style</a>/<a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/kraken-throttle-combat-style/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Throttle</a>/<a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/kraken-wrack-combat-style/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Wrack</a>, alongside <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/rapid-grappler-combat/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Rapid Grappler</a> and anything else that boosts grappling. So I sometimes forget that not everyone does this. </blockquote><p>Even just building to rapid grappler gives you 3 grapple checks a round. Plenty to move someone and damage them.HenshinFanatic wrote:When I play a grapple focused character I play a Tetori who grabs the full line of Kraken Style/Throttle/Wrack, alongside Rapid Grappler and anything else that boosts grappling. So I sometimes forget that not everyone does this.
Even just building to rapid grappler gives you 3 grapple checks a round. Plenty to move someone and damage them.Ryan Freire2017-04-05T03:14:23ZRe: Forums: Advice: Why are Combat Maneuvers so frowned upon?HenshinFanatichttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u8uu&page=6?Why-are-Combat-Maneuvers-so-frowned-upon#2512017-04-05T03:09:25Z2017-04-05T03:09:25Z<p>When I play a grapple focused character I play a <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo-monk-archetypes/tetori/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Tetori</a> who grabs the full line of <a href="https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/kraken-style-combat-style/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Kraken Style</a>/<a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/kraken-throttle-combat-style/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Throttle</a>/<a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/kraken-wrack-combat-style/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Wrack</a>, alongside <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/rapid-grappler-combat/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Rapid Grappler</a> and anything else that boosts grappling. So I sometimes forget that not everyone does this.</p>When I play a grapple focused character I play a Tetori who grabs the full line of Kraken Style/Throttle/Wrack, alongside Rapid Grappler and anything else that boosts grappling. So I sometimes forget that not everyone does this.HenshinFanatic2017-04-05T03:09:25Z