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increasing cmd?


Advice


what are some ways some one in fullplate can increase their cmd?
also is there any way to key it off of cha, wis or con instead of dex?


As far as I know, there are only ways to add another stat to your CMD, but not replace it.

How much are you looking to boost your CMD, and are you looking for specific circumstances?


cmd increase in all situations and was hoping to replace dex with another stat as dex will be the lowest stat starting out at either a +1 or a 0 maybe a +2 if im lucky with rolling but my stat priority is str>cha>con=wis>int>dex and im hopeing to boost it quite a bit(any way to do so without boosting ac?

also can full bab characters take advanced defencive combat training with out taking defensive combat training as they alredy have their bab = to hit die


I'm inclined to say they can't, since there's no wording on Advanced Defensive Combat Training saying that you can ignore the prerequisite if you already have perfect BAB.

What race/class are you building?


All of the methods I know to get something other than dex to AC (and hence CMD) would still be limited by the max dex on your armor. Maybe consider other AC boosts that add to CMD, anything not armor, nat armor or shield.


Java Man wrote:
All of the methods I know to get something other than dex to AC (and hence CMD) would still be limited by the max dex on your armor. Maybe consider other AC boosts that add to CMD, anything not armor, nat armor or shield.

max dex bonus only applies to ac boost no other boosts so you still get full dex to cmd, inicitive and reflex saves just not to ac


To expand on what Java Man said, anything you can get that gives you a dodge, deflection, insight, luck, morale, profane, or sacred bonus to your AC also applies to your CMD.


Add a level of oracle and you get CHA to CMD plus it makes defensive combat training do something.


graystone wrote:
Add a level of oracle and you get CHA to CMD plus it makes defensive combat training do something.

Misnomer, stuff like Sidestep Revelation doesn't add to your CMD. As far as I've looked, I don't think its possible to key your CMD off any other stat. Just get a good ring of protection I guess.


Tarik Blackhands wrote:
graystone wrote:
Add a level of oracle and you get CHA to CMD plus it makes defensive combat training do something.
Misnomer, stuff like Sidestep Revelation doesn't add to your CMD. As far as I've looked, I don't think its possible to key your CMD off any other stat. Just get a good ring of protection I guess.

Oh? Care to explain Nature's Whispers? "You may add your Charisma modifier, instead of your Dexterity modifier, to your Armor Class and CMD."

Sure seems to add to CMD to me, unless you think they meant something other than CMD by printing "CMD" in the book.


Weird, I thought the Nature revelation had the same wording as the Lore version (which doesn't add to CMD like I said). Guess that's a mistake on my end.


Tarik Blackhands wrote:
graystone wrote:
Add a level of oracle and you get CHA to CMD plus it makes defensive combat training do something.
Misnomer, stuff like Sidestep Revelation doesn't add to your CMD. As far as I've looked, I don't think its possible to key your CMD off any other stat. Just get a good ring of protection I guess.

Nature oracle can get it with natures whispers.


Lady-J wrote:
Java Man wrote:
All of the methods I know to get something other than dex to AC (and hence CMD) would still be limited by the max dex on your armor. Maybe consider other AC boosts that add to CMD, anything not armor, nat armor or shield.
max dex bonus only applies to ac boost no other boosts so you still get full dex to cmd, inicitive and reflex saves just not to ac

Huh, somehow I had the fact that losing dex to ac makes you lose it to CMD expanded in my head to limits to dex to AC applied to CMD. This being the case there are oracle revelations hat give cha in place of dex, which have been mentioned.


It's hard to give advice to a build when we know nothing about said build (other than full-plate and "low" dex being involved). I'm assuming you're playing/building a STR focused martial (that seems most often to be the case with said parameters):
As Java Man and Diachronos said, other AC bonuses apply to CMD as well - this often covers you up entirely, along with the high STR.
If you don't have a high STR either, just try to stay out of grappler's way.

@graystone: I really don't think you would have gotten your point across if you were polite.


Rub-Eta wrote:
@graystone: I really don't think you would have gotten your point across if you were polite.

Normally I'm more polite. I find someone starting off a post, about my posts, with "Misnomer" quite rude. Things like that get my 'snark' up.

Tarik Blackhands wrote:
Weird, I thought the Nature revelation had the same wording as the Lore version (which doesn't add to CMD like I said). Guess that's a mistake on my end.

Yep, if you want Cha to Ac you have the option to get either Ref or CMD. Most often I go Ref but CMD is there. Sorry if I was a bit snarkier than I should have been.


graystone wrote:


Tarik Blackhands wrote:
Weird, I thought the Nature revelation had the same wording as the Lore version (which doesn't add to CMD like I said). Guess that's a mistake on my end.
Yep, if you want Cha to Ac you have the option to get either Ref or CMD. Most often I go Ref but CMD is there. Sorry if I was a bit snarkier than I should have been.

No sweat dude. I honestly forgot Nature had a Cha to AC (and other stuff) revelation. I thought it was just Lunar and Lore and those two did need a little mini errata to confirm they don't boost CMD.


Stop, stop, stop! This is the internet! You all are way too polite.


Tarik Blackhands wrote:
graystone wrote:


Tarik Blackhands wrote:
Weird, I thought the Nature revelation had the same wording as the Lore version (which doesn't add to CMD like I said). Guess that's a mistake on my end.
Yep, if you want Cha to Ac you have the option to get either Ref or CMD. Most often I go Ref but CMD is there. Sorry if I was a bit snarkier than I should have been.
No sweat dude. I honestly forgot Nature had a Cha to AC (and other stuff) revelation. I thought it was just Lunar and Lore and those two did need a little mini errata to confirm they don't boost CMD.

Cool. It seemed obvious to me CMD = Nature, but that might be because I'm always tempted to take it, and it has nice revelations, but losing out on Cha to ref really hurts. The FAQ has been around so long [2011] it never entered my mind, but it can't hurt to let people know about it.

Java Man wrote:
Stop, stop, stop! This is the internet! You all are way too polite.

I'm too tired to be rude anymore. Maybe tomorrow. ;P


stats are 28,12,20(or 22 havent desided were to put my 16 yet),16,14(or 16)and 19 character is a temperd champion/oath of vengence paladin 3, race human/half red dragon no multiclassing feats are currently noble sion, fey foundling and exotic weapon proficiency falcheta.


I'd still say oracle as I don't see any downside. I'd suggest oracle [nature] with the dual curse archetype [Covetous/Haunted].

Revelations: Misfortune [from dual curse, 1/day/person rerolls], Nature's Whispers [cha to AC/CMD], Natural Divination [bonus on checks once per day] {extra's listed because more can be gotten with the bonus revelations feat}

PS: I don't think the character is technically legal as Oathbound Paladin and Tempered Champion both alter spell casting. If it's cool with the DM that's cool, just pointing out a possible issue.


graystone wrote:

I'd still say oracle as I don't see any downside. I'd suggest oracle [nature] with the dual curse archetype [Covetous/Haunted].

Revelations: Misfortune [from dual curse, 1/day/person rerolls], Nature's Whispers [cha to AC/CMD], Natural Divination [bonus on checks once per day] {extra's listed because more can be gotten with the bonus revelations feat}

PS: I don't think the character is technically legal as Oathbound Paladin and Tempered Champion both alter spell casting. If it's cool with the DM that's cool, just pointing out a possible issue.

asked my dm about the archetypes before putting the character consept together they oked it, any way to get oracle revilation with out oracle levels or vmc?(planning on vmc barbarian eventually)gona ask if i can trade out rage for fast movement instead. if it isnt possible and i do end up needing to go oracle ill take tounges curse are there any archetypes that would trade out spells for full bab?


Lady-J wrote:
asked my dm about the archetypes before putting the character consept together they oked it

Cool, just wanted to check.

Lady-J wrote:
any way to get oracle revilation with out oracle levels or vmc?

There is, but I think it's be an inferior option. Ravener Hunter Inquisitor would let you pick the revelation but it requires multiclassing too and it doesn't allow you to pick up more revelations latter. Also, you would have already had to take VMC as it takes your 3rd level feat you spent on exotic weapon proficiency falcheta.

Lady-J wrote:
go oracle ill take tounges curse are there any archetypes that would trade out spells for full bab?

No such archetype exists as it's a full caster class so removing it's spells is a no go. As to the curse, is anyone in the group planning on speaking "Abyssal, Aklo, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Ignan, Infernal, or Terran"? If not, it's a poor choice as one free language isn't worth it if no one can communicate with you when they need to. I suggested Covetous as it seemed to fit with 1/2 dragon and Haunted as it has little downside unless you have a reason to dig in your backpack on a regular basis and having a few extra cantrips is never a bad thing. Possessed is also another good option since you don't cast many spells and Plagued isn't bad either but really shines if taken with Covetous for the dual-cure archetype as it negates the effect covetous, sickened, for only a –1 saves vs disease or infestation.


graystone wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
any way to get oracle revilation with out oracle levels or vmc?
There is, but I think it's be an inferior option. Ravener Hunter Inquisitor would let you pick the revelation but it requires multiclassing too and it doesn't allow you to pick up more revelations latter. Also, you would have already had to take VMC as it takes your 3rd level feat you spent on exotic weapon proficiency falcheta.

either gona have retraining done at level 5 or the character might acturally come in at a higher level(its build for the parties current level and will only come in when my current character dies) now that i think about it it should actually have 4 levels in paladin as we just leveld up last sesion my bad

graystone wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
go oracle ill take tounges curse are there any archetypes that would trade out spells for full bab?
No such archetype exists as it's a full caster class so removing it's spells is a no go. As to the curse, is anyone in the group planning on speaking "Abyssal, Aklo, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Ignan, Infernal, or Terran"? If not, it's a poor choice as one free language isn't worth it if no one can communicate with you when they need to. I suggested Covetous as it seemed to fit with 1/2 dragon and Haunted as it has little downside unless you have a reason to dig in your backpack on a regular basis and having a few extra cantrips is never a bad thing. Possessed is also another good option since you don't cast many spells and Plagued isn't bad either but really shines if taken with Covetous for the dual-cure archetype as it negates the effect covetous, sickened, for only a –1 saves vs disease or infestation.

well language isnt a problem in out group i think between every one in the party we have between 27-32 languages my current character has like 16, but i was thinking of asking the dm of allowing the language to be dragonic as it would be more fitting thematically


graystone wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
any way to get oracle revilation with out oracle levels or vmc?

There is, but I think it's be an inferior option. Ravener Hunter Inquisitor would let you pick the revelation but it requires multiclassing too and it doesn't allow you to pick up more revelations latter. Also, you would have already had to take VMC as it takes your 3rd level feat you spent on exotic weapon proficiency falcheta.

just took a look at the inquisitor archetype looks interesting any way of making them full bab? if not ill prolly stick to oracle to get the seeker archetype also im thinking of droping nobel sion and taking craft wonderous items instead any ideas on how to boost caster level up outside of magical knack (which i would alredy be taking in this case) so i can get caster level 5 and get craft arms and armor? also on the fence about doing vmc rogue or vmc barbarian

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