No magic, no problem


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


In your own opinion, what is the most balanced party someone can create within a no-magic campaign setting?

All classes and archetypes that don't use magic or spell-like abilities are on the table.


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Are (Su) abilities allowed? and by extension Alchemy (Alchemists / investigator's)

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

All barbarians.


Firewarrior44 wrote:
Are (Su) abilities allowed? and by extension Alchemy (Alchemists / investigator's)

So long as the ability in question is not (Sp) or a spell, then yes

so yeah, they are


How about third party stuff? The Pactmaker from Radiance House is a very versatile class, centered on supernatural abilities.

A party of them and alchemists could be decently balanced, although it might make you reconsider allowing supernatural abilities.

Also, what about magic equipment? You might want to consider the inherent bonuses system from Unchained.


Alchemist = Controller
Slayer = Striker
Barbarian = Tank
Cavalier = Leader (Warlord if 3PP usable)

The alchemist would be a bomber, but would be taxed as the group healer also. Tough roll for one character. In a no magic game the warlord from Adamant Entertainment would shine, I would replace the Cavalier with one.

If Alchemist is not allowed I would replace it with the gunslinger. The group would have a hard time healing, unless you add a self healing rule to the game.

Slayer or Alchemist/Gunslinger would need a trait for disable device.

Grand Lodge

I wouldn't advise anyone to try and play like this, but as an intellectual exercise...

There are lots of options for effective front-liners, so I'll leave that open.

A paladin with the Hospitaller archetype can do decent healing, and with the Tempered Champion archetype they lose their spellcasting.

A ranger with the Divine Marksman archetype loses spellcasting and does good ranged damage.

You'll want a rogue or such for dealing with traps and sneaking around. Or an investigator if you allow those, but they're closer to casters than paladins are.

A kineticist provides good ranged damage that bypasses DR. Some can also provide force damage for dealing with ghosts and such.


I did not even think about occult classes, never used one yet, but the kineticist Kinetic Blast is a Sp ability.


Oversight wrote:

Alchemist = Controller

Slayer = Striker
Barbarian = Tank
Cavalier = Leader (Warlord if 3PP usable)

The alchemist would be a bomber, but would be taxed as the group healer also. Tough roll for one character. In a no magic game the warlord from Adamant Entertainment would shine, I would replace the Cavalier with one.

If Alchemist is not allowed I would replace it with the gunslinger. The group would have a hard time healing, unless you add a self healing rule to the game.

Slayer or Alchemist/Gunslinger would need a trait for disable device.

I agree that a bombing alchemist would be essential for battlefield control. Slayer, on the other hand, could be swapped out for pretty much any damage-dealing martial. Barbarian is a great pick, and untouchable bloodrager would also work well for that role. And for the cavalier I'd suggest going with a cavalier/sensei monk/battle herald.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I think the advantage of the slayer is being able to take trapfinding options rather than require a rogue.


In a party without a healer, a trap disarmer becomes a much bigger deal.

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