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Countdown to Marvel Comics Secret Empire ...or!


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Is this thread and/or event REALLY necessary?

I dunno. I do know that I think Zemo finally has a friend now.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber

I'll pass.
Didn't like either civil wars, House of M, A vs. X nor X vs. I.
Was so-so on Age of Ultron. Battleworld was OK.

Liking Monsters Unleashed. Just hope the regular series lives up to the hype.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber Subscriber

Well, not to get too political, but I think that in today's climate it is highly necessary. And I think with Nick Spencer at the helm, at least it's ensured that the right people will hate it for all the wrong reasons. And apart from that, it will hopefully be written better than a lot of the big events coming before (again I tremendously like what Nick Spencer is doing so I'm confident about that).

So, my only gripe with this is still that they use Steve Rogers as the scapegoat. I can see why they do it, but I really like him more when upholding values as everyone around him is going nuts like in CW I.

Also I wouldn't like at all if Steve gets clubbered by Emma Frost, because I really hoped she would go back to her old villaneous ways.


Wormy,

No clear idea about whether Emma stays evil, but it's clear she and Steve are fighting each other for one reason: Hydra hates mutants that don't work for them. Or at least they don't want other super powers that they can't control.

Charles,

Battleworld was okay?! Secret Wars was AWESOME! But okay fine.

All I do know is once Secret Empire is over, and the rubble clears away, Thanos will probably try to blow stuff up again.

Monsters Unleashed is kind of dull since I haven't see all the monsters fighting like I'd hope. But it's better than CW II, no question.

Scarab Sages

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Paizo Superscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:
Battleworld was okay?! Secret Wars was AWESOME! But okay fine.

The first Secret Wars was AWESOME. The second was trying to capture lightning twice, but didn't quite make it.


Charles Scholz wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:
Battleworld was okay?! Secret Wars was AWESOME! But okay fine.

The first Secret Wars was AWESOME. The second was trying to capture lightning twice, but didn't quite make it.

The first Secret Wars was good mostly because of how new and different the whole megacrossover was at the time. (Crisis was the next year and much better as a story, IMO).

The second was drek.

The recent Secret Wars itself was good, though the Battleworld around it was very uneven from what I read. Not surprising, since it was basically the entire line of comics.
The several years of Avengers/New Avengers leading up to Secret Wars was excellent. One of the best things I've seen from mainstream comics in years.

I really haven't been following anything that's leading up to Secret Empire, so I don't really have much to say about it. Hopefully it'll give a satisfactory wrap up to the Cap is Hydra thing, cause I'm not real fond of the concept.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber

According to wikipedia, these are the number of events, story arcs, crossovers, limited series, etc. that have have occurred over the decades at Marvel.

1960's - 5
1970's - 6
1980's - 11
1990's - 24
2000's - 20
2010's - 40

The Exchange

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber Subscriber

And that points right to the problem you have with all those crossovers and events. It's not mainly the question if such an event is good or bad, but just that there are way too much of them.

First, having the next event right around the corner makes it nearly impossible to really build up on it. I'm with Jeff in that the lead-up to Secret Wars was one of the best things to happen in mainstream comics (and I would even go so far to say in history, not only recent years), and that already started with him writing for FF and S.H.I.E.L.D in 2011, so it took 4 years to reach the climax.

But having to deliver a big event every year and obviously also feeling the need to complicate matters with all those smaller crossover events resulting in a constant restart of any number of series makes such a slow development a rare feat to achieve. And I think the product suffers for it.

Secret Wars also had the advantage that all the tie-ins were mainly short arcs independent of the main story, so you could easily ignore them if you wanted to but also didn't have to read up whole story-lines to just to get to the point where those storylines started. This is important for me as I am a bit of a completionist and if for example, to get the whole picture of the Clone Conspiracy crossover, I suddenly have to buy issues of series I totally ignored so far (and I'm not saying that the Silk comics are anyhow bad) and might have to read up on that character just to get what's actually happening in those comics, that makes it sometimes so frustrating that I stop being interested in the whole storyline. Happened with CW II, basically happened with IvX. IS happening right now with Clone Conspiracy.

And third, it leads to severe cases of brain overload (at least with my tiny brain). Looking at the wikipedia list, I was totally shocked to find that I basically had completely forgotten about Shadowland, which I found really excellent at that time. It's also interesting to see how many of those events I stopped reading before their actual conclusion (basically all^^). So what all those events do is destroying any sense of continuity the marvel universe once had. I know that a lot of people couldn#t care less about continuity and I also know, that there's a train of thought that it's easier to get new readers with new #1 issues. But if you constantly restart series with new #1s, it gets very confusing fast for possible collectors so I'm not sure if it's not detrimental to the long-time success they surely want to achieve.

Though that may be not a real problem for them given that the money they are making is mostly in the movies nowadays.


Anyways,

Secret Empire and Clone Conspiracy tie-in! News Flash! Doc Oct joins Hydra, becomes the Superior Octopus.

Other things: Loki apparently can trick any god, but most especially the Sha'ir. Because Sha'ir gods are dumb.

Sovereign Court

I do like that Emma Frost will be in this! Good for her, even though the Xmen v. Inhumans was a pretty crappy story.


Emma,

Yeah it wasn't the best Emma story. But again I could see how losing Scott might drive her over the edge.

Liberty's Edge

I have to disagree about Emma villian turn being a good thing. It was forced, cliche and more importantly a writer wanted the character a villian. Even if meant throwing away years of character development. The only thing that can make what amounts to character assassination easier to swallow is if they portray her like Magneto in his solo series. The death of her boyfriend is enough to drive her to the dark side. Yet the death of her students who were tortured and murdered in horrible ways does not. Yeah...no its out of character imo. Not to mention it looks like on her way from escaping the X-men she knocked a porn actress and stole her costume.


Almost forgot! The Unity Squad finally beat up Red Skull! I wonder how that will play into Steve's plans.

Also, memorax, we'll just agree to disagree about it. Mostly because I never liked Emma as a hero. Even a reluctant one.


So Solicts for June for Marvel came out. As it expected, MORE Secret Empire stuff.

Especially the cover where Hawkeye (Hawkguy) is crapping his pants. I think it might be the return of Banner to tell Hawkeye what he REALLY thinks of being shot in the head with an arrow...

Also you know, other stuff. Like Galactus versus Ego.


So things I learned about...well stuff that is related and not so related to Secret Empire!

Spoilers ahead folks!

Spoiler:

Secret Empire Spoiler - Elisa Sinclair is apparently on par skill wise with most Sorcerer Supremes since she claims she once got Chthon's attention enough to be offered a place as his bride. Whether or not that's true...hard to say. Also it appears Steve is working hard to keep Carol's shield thingie from working. Not sure if it's a strong as it seems but the fact it could take a near full on Quantum Band blast...does say it's stronger than expected.

NON-Secret Empire but of import to Marvel U:

So our secret Jailer of Eternity appears to be....NO ONE I KNOW! Thanks a lot Al Ewing!! That was SO underwhelming! I had thoughts like "Mephisto!" or "Zauriel!" but no. some new guy from before the beginning of everything everything who has three eyes. I do wonder if he's related to Moridun. So there is that. Plus hopefully Ms America and company can pull it off to they get this crapfest back on track. Like getting Adam Warlock back.

The fate of Thor!

Still unworthy. But at least now we know why. Nick Fury couldn't keep his mouth shut and Thor had to believe the crap Gorr the God Butcher was spewing. Also much like we got the War Doctor, we now have....WAR THOR! Oh and Thanos and Hela are joining forces so we can see that cross over in Mighty Thor before the movie comes out.

Other than that...I got nothing.


Seriously, NO ONE reads any of this any more?!!

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

I've been following both the Thor / Unworthy Odinson titles and HydraCap. And some others:

Doctor Strange, because he's "my" Marvel hero, and because I've bought just about every book with him in it since 1973, including the awful "fallen sorcerer" storyline in Strange Tales. But whouah, is this entire run an exercise in unpleasantness!

No X-books, oddly. Nor any Inhumans. And I'm staying away from Avengers until this Kang storyline is done. I can honestly say that I've *never* enjoyed an Avengers / Kang story.


Chris,

I like Kang. He's a great villain, but I'll agree this current storyline isn't work for me. I still think he's one of the better Avenger villains which crossed over from FF.

X-books I'm waiting for the reboot and Inhumans, same.

Doctor Strange's new title has some promise in terms of we got to see Dormammu and Orb. Other than that, I'm just waiting to see how it all falls together with Secret Empire since apparently Karl is involved too.


Chris Mortika wrote:

I've been following both the Thor / Unworthy Odinson titles and HydraCap. And some others:

Doctor Strange, because he's "my" Marvel hero, and because I've bought just about every book with him in it since 1973, including the awful "fallen sorcerer" storyline in Strange Tales. But whouah, is this entire run an exercise in unpleasantness.

I actually really liked that Strange Tales storyline way back when. Haven't been following him in a while though.

I've been reading both Thors and a few other things. None of the big Secret Empire tie-ins. I'm a little behind though, haven't gotten to the latest pile of books.


thejeff,

Don't worry. So far you've not missed much. Once Secret Empire 0 comes out (I'm guessing Free Comic Book Day), you'll know what we know.

Probably.


thejeff wrote:
The first Secret Wars was good mostly because of how new and different the whole megacrossover was at the time. (Crisis was the next year and much better as a story, IMO).

Disagree. I honestly hold the first Secret Wars up as the pinnacle of what a true crossover event should be.

A Huge cast of heroes and Villains. All A-list heroes. All characters were introduced in a way that even new people could understand who they were and what they could do...and everyone got to DO something. The spotlight was shared all around. There wasn't really anyone just standing around as scenery or wallpaper.

Spider-woman 2 was introduced cleanly, showed off her powers... but didn't steal the show.

There were major threats that were dealt with, and the action kept going with new threates... Dooms army, Galactus, God-Doom.... At the end there were even a few changes to status quo, but nothing that wasn't easily explained in an individual comic (Spidey's new costume, She-hulk joining the FF). It was awesome... and Skippable at the same time. It was an epic event and the status quo of comics that had nothing to do with those characters weren't affected at all.

I wish there were a few more characters like Daredevil or invisible Woman... but the cast that was there was top notch.

Crisis on the other hand? WAY too many characters that the average fan didn't know... and new fans never would. The destruction of the universe and the murdering of countless characters was more of a send off to the silver age than it was a celebration of it and heaven forbid a brand new fan jumping into that book.

It was certainly epic. However I don't think it was as GOOD as Secret Wars. It's goal was more to see how many characters could be crammed onto the pages than in telling a linear story. I liked them both at the time... but I know which one I've gone back and reread a dozen times more ;)


Phantom,

So...where does Secret Wars (2015) rate do you think? Cause I rate that pretty awesome myself...


phantom1592 wrote:
thejeff wrote:
The first Secret Wars was good mostly because of how new and different the whole megacrossover was at the time. (Crisis was the next year and much better as a story, IMO).

Disagree. I honestly hold the first Secret Wars up as the pinnacle of what a true crossover event should be.

A Huge cast of heroes and Villains. All A-list heroes. All characters were introduced in a way that even new people could understand who they were and what they could do...and everyone got to DO something. The spotlight was shared all around. There wasn't really anyone just standing around as scenery or wallpaper.

Spider-woman 2 was introduced cleanly, showed off her powers... but didn't steal the show.

There were major threats that were dealt with, and the action kept going with new threates... Dooms army, Galactus, God-Doom.... At the end there were even a few changes to status quo, but nothing that wasn't easily explained in an individual comic (Spidey's new costume, She-hulk joining the FF). It was awesome... and Skippable at the same time. It was an epic event and the status quo of comics that had nothing to do with those characters weren't affected at all.

I wish there were a few more characters like Daredevil or invisible Woman... but the cast that was there was top notch.

Crisis on the other hand? WAY too many characters that the average fan didn't know... and new fans never would. The destruction of the universe and the murdering of countless characters was more of a send off to the silver age than it was a celebration of it and heaven forbid a brand new fan jumping into that book.

It was certainly epic. However I don't think it was as GOOD as Secret Wars. It's goal was more to see how many characters could be crammed onto the pages than in telling a linear story. I liked them both at the time... but I know which one I've gone back and reread a dozen times more ;)

I was actually very new to DC when Crisis came out. It really was my big introduction to the DC Universe, outside of a few individual newstand issues here and there. It absolutely worked for me.

Biggest problem with it from my point of view is that by the end of it I'd fallen in love with a bunch of the Earth-2 stuff that it trashed. :(


thejeff wrote:

I was actually very new to DC when Crisis came out. It really was my big introduction to the DC Universe, outside of a few individual newstand issues here and there. It absolutely worked for me.

Biggest problem with it from my point of view is that by the end of it I'd fallen in love with a bunch of the Earth-2 stuff that it trashed. :(

That's kind of the problem. It wasn't just Earth 2.... it was Earth 3, X, Earth S... I was also new to the DC outside of a stack of old Superman comics and the Superfriends cartoon... and probably 80% of the cast was brand new characters to me. Dragging in people like Uncle Sam and Angle Man and Ten Eyed Bandit or Sgt. Rocks easy company just to kill these guys off just didn't have any kind of connection to me. The teams that they spit into to weren't the A-list guys... Unlike Secret Wars, and there were SOOOOO many people running around on so many different earths... as a new reader I was completely lost. By the end of the book, MOST of those characters had ceased to exist anyway so the ones I DID like were snatched away.

When I read Secret Wars... I had no idea who a lot of the villains were (wrecking crew, Enchantress, Ultron, Kang... ) But I recognized Dr. Doom and Doc Ock. I knew who the Avengers were (though not sure about Wasp or Captain Marvel of those days..) Iron Man, Spider-man, Fantastic Four, Hulk were all well known from various cartoons and puzzles I had. The X-men were still a mystery.

However, the books themselves seemed to be written for newcomers and each character was introduced, powers explained, got some personality and got some action scenes... and I absolutely loved a bunch of these newer guys. (Cyclops is still one of my favorites)

Crisis... I didn't get that from. It was the last hurrah for the characters, not an attempt to grab new fans for them. Years later after I DID learn about some of them... I was even more annoyed at the Deaths of Supergirl and Barry Allen...

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Phantom,

So...where does Secret Wars (2015) rate do you think? Cause I rate that pretty awesome myself...

I watched a few videos and stuff on it, but I hate to judge what I didn't actually read. That said, it seemed like quite the mess and required way too much buildup of the destruction of the Marvel universe... and what they put back together isn't quite right.

I love the idea of Fantastic Four having a major part in it... and I love Doom being Doom... but the rest?? It was too much 'What if/Elseworlds' for my taste. Events are fun when you can see your favorite characters coming together for a gigantic threat. When all you have are alternate versions of characters doing things they never would have done in the first place... It doesn't feel like a real 'event' to me. It doesn't help that it's hard to tell WHO was actually 'real' from that lifeboat and who was reimagined by Doom doesn't help either...

Secret Wars '15 had kind of an 'Earth X' alternate world feel to it. The fact that it WAS the 'real' characters was a black mark for me. I would have enjoyed it a lot more if it WAS an alternate/Out of continuity story.


Phantom,

Your call but I felt it was real since it had characters from all over, even if some of them weren't all there.

Plus I guess the lead ins/lead ups in Avengers were pretty awesome.


Thomas Seitz wrote:

Phantom,

Your call but I felt it was real since it had characters from all over, even if some of them weren't all there.

Plus I guess the lead ins/lead ups in Avengers were pretty awesome.

I've been weaning off Marvel for some time now since it's comics have gotten so dark and gritty and the heroes haven't been as 'heroic' as I like.

The lead ups that involved the heroes actively destroying other realities to protect their own... was too much for me. Probably why I didn't bother with Secret War


Phantom,

I wouldn't call Marvel "grim and gritty". Especially after Batman versus Joker in Endgame. Now THAT was some dark crap.

But I'm still a Marvel fan even after all this. I will say, CWII, VERY unnecessary!

Dark Archive

thejeff wrote:

I was actually very new to DC when Crisis came out. It really was my big introduction to the DC Universe, outside of a few individual newstand issues here and there. It absolutely worked for me.

Biggest problem with it from my point of view is that by the end of it I'd fallen in love with a bunch of the Earth-2 stuff that it trashed. :(

I loved Crisis as a teen (and was a huge Perez fanboy, so the beautiful art helped), but didn't realize at the time that it meant that I was losing the Legion of Super-Heroes, Justice Society, Freedom Fighters, etc.

Some things came back *fast,* like various versions of Supergirl or Crime Syndicate, others took decades (Barry Allen), and some, like one of my favorite side-note Teen Titans, Kole, or the Helena Wayne Huntress, never came back at all.

IMO, the Legion and JSA still haven't recovered from Crisis, thirty years ago, even 'though the multiverse is back.

The storyline itself just feels clunky to me now. How does something retroactively never exist, and yet can still be remembered enough to mourn (like Supergirl or Barry Allen or people who were not mourned and just forgotten like Tula and Kid Psycho)? If the multiverse retroactively never existed, where did Pariah and the Anti-Monitor come from to kickstart the whole Crisis? Ugh. Brain hurts.

And then all of the Captain Marvel family and Charlton heroes and Freedom Fighters and some of the Earth 2 heroes jumped ship and escaped the destruction of their earths (leaving billions and billions to die)? Yikes. That's dark. The only 'heroes' who went down with their ship and died fighting for their universe were the frikkin' Crime Syndicate, and that's probably *not* the message DC was meaning to sell there.

The story did not age well, IMO, so it's not surprising to me that it's almost all been undone and vigorously disavowed over the years.


Set,

Do you think the same can be said of Secret Wars or even the current version in say...20 years?


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phantom1592 wrote:


The lead ups that involved the heroes actively destroying other realities to protect their own... was too much for me. Probably why I didn't bother with Secret War

I thought that was handled very well. A very nice exploration of the no-win scenario and depths to which even heroes may go when the stakes are impossibly high.

If I recall correctly though, even in that Hickman gave them an out. I don't believe any of the heroes destroyed an inhabited world. The first were already uninhabited or destroyed by other forces.
The exception was Namor, but he's long been played as both hero and villain. He was the first to use one of the bombs and then he led the Cabal to destroy more worlds.


Thejeff,

You are correct. Namor was the only one that actively killed anyone, especially from other worlds. He and his Cabal (which was pretty awesome in some ways) killed like dozens of worlds.

An out though I don't recall other than one shotting it with the Infinity Gems.


Thomas Seitz wrote:

Thejeff,

You are correct. Namor was the only one that actively killed anyone, especially from other worlds. He and his Cabal (which was pretty awesome in some ways) killed like dozens of worlds.

An out though I don't recall other than one shotting it with the Infinity Gems.

Dr. Strange actually killed much of Great Society, which allowed Namor to do that, but didn't actually kill the world himself.

I don't remember all, but there was one already being eaten by Galactus and one cleansed of life by Mapmakers and the first one that the Panther saw killed by the Black Swan and another by the Builders of its universe. Maybe others. Then they finally faced a living world protected by heroes.


I was more looking at the Great Society which while you're right that Doctor Strange killed a FEW, Namor was the one that detonated the bomb which blew up Earth whatever it was.

Dark Archive

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Set,

Do you think the same can be said of Secret Wars or even the current version in say...20 years?

I'm not familiar with the most recent Secret Wars, but the original introduced a mix of good and laughable stuff. Spider-Man's alien symbiote costume was neat, and Marvel has gotten lots of mileage out of that. I liked the new (at the time) Spider-Woman, Julia Carpenter (who has been mostly forgotten), and the new (at the time) Titania has endured, generally as Crusher Creel's better half.

But then there's stuff like the Beyonder, who was beyond silly (and if you tried to write as an OC in a fanfic, you'd be rightly called a bad writer), or Doom's armor being powered by a singularity stored in his boot (!!!), or the Molecule Man progressing from a guy who could give Tigra a good scare and turn stuff in his immediate presence into other stuff into someone who could turn on / off half the stars in the galaxy by waving his hand, or drop mountain ranges on people. Ugh.

Whatever I may think of the fallout from Crisis on Infinite Earths (or the questionable need to consolidate all of their Earths in the first place), it was both better written, and far more beautifully illustrated than Secret Wars.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber Subscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:
Seriously, NO ONE reads any of this any more?!!

Well at the moment, I'm reading up on some series to get the full picture about the IvX- and Clone Conspiracy events, so I'm not up to date especially regarding Secret Empire. Just to a look and from the march releases, I only read America #1 (which I didn't like too much due to the way the main character was painted ), Avengers #5 (I really hope they finally kill Kang for good this time, so this naturally will not happen), All-new Wolverine #18 (which was awesome as nearly everything which has Laura in it) and the new Iron Fist #1 (which I liked, though I'm not sure if this new storyline will be for me).

From the older stuff I just read the first five issues of the Uncanny Inhumans-series, which I found surprisingly enjoyable even if they had another appearance of Kang in it. I guess the way Kang got his ass kicked in the conclusion of that story arc made me like it ^^.


Thomas Seitz wrote:

Phantom,

I wouldn't call Marvel "grim and gritty". Especially after Batman versus Joker in Endgame. Now THAT was some dark crap.

But I'm still a Marvel fan even after all this. I will say, CWII, VERY unnecessary!

You don't have to win the top prize to be dark and gritty... Endgame may well have been worse, but Marvel as a whole isn't as 'fun' as it was years ago.

Compare the first Armor Wars vs. Civil War just to see what I mean. Captain America vs. iron Man. Awesome concept. Destroyed Freindships. One showed both characters as heroes in their own way and kept the story going...

The other? Showed broken and bleeding heroes... Goliath wrapped in a baseball tarp dropped in a grave... Captain America shot dead on the step of a courthouse.

That's some pretty dark stuff there. And it's only continued on from Secret invasion, AvX, Secret Wars 3 and beyond.

I still love the characters to death, Can't wait for cartoons and movies and toys... but the environment and the audience they're aiming for in the actual comics... it's not me anymore. I think I dropped out of DC around Blackest Night and Marvel around Shadowland.

Now I just check out some TPBs at the mall or watch youtube videos and threads like this to keep an eye on it... but I can't spend what they want for what they're delivering.


Secret Wars 3? Not sure I'd call it that so much as Secret Wars 2015. But okay.

Wormy,

America is cool because she kicks butt. But I can see why the art might throw you. I WAS hoping you had read Unworthy Thor and Ultimates #5...

Iron Fist we'll see how it goes. As for IvX...meh. It at least removed something I felt needed to go, IE the Terrigen Cloud. Clone Conspiracy...wasn't as good as I hoped. But it will have some lingering effects. So there's that.


Back to Secret Empire! The 6 page preview indicates that Cap has this whole "Take over the world thing for HYDRA" going pretty good, what with a) taking out the defense shield and now the Chitari coming to town, b) street heroes busy fighting off Graviton and c) now SHIELD occupied with the possibility of a nuke em all HYDRA cell.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber Subscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:
America is cool because she kicks butt. But I can see why the art might throw you.

Yeah, was not a big fan of it. In the scene with her now-ex, I think that it made her look more like a jerk than just the hurt person she was at the moment (and I had to reread that scene just to get that). But I also honestly absolutely don't care about her as a character and that first issue did nothing to change that. It's kinda the opposite of Kamala Khan who I adore very much.

Quote:
I WAS hoping you had read Unworthy Thor

did that yesterday. Nice mini-series. I'm very curious now who might be the person that took the hammer in the end. And while I like She-Thor very much, the image of Odinsson with his hammer is such an iconic one for me that I still feel he needs it back. Especially if he won't take another one.

Quote:
and Ultimates #5...

*sigh* did ignore it so far. Didn't like the first run too much (I hate to say it because I generally like Al Ewing's work, but to me it felt like they tried to copy what Hickman did before, only without any ability to do so) and now that they made me hate Carol, I basically lost any interest in it. But now you made me curious, so I might give it a try.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber Subscriber
WormysQueue wrote:
But now you made me curious, so I might give it a try.

And now that I have done that... I have to take everything back. Because what happened in those five issues is actually pretty awesome. Still hate Carol, though.


Wormy,

The Ultimates Volume 2 doesn't require you to like Carol. I swear.

I like America because of Young Avengers. Now I get that her current series might make you a little meh. But still think you need to give it time.

Thor Odinson will eventually get his hammer back. Or get another one. When? I dunno. But it will probably not happen until Jane Foster dies.


So Secret Empire news:

Bucky found out what happened to Steve. Too bad he's probably scattered across space time to do much about it.

Not Secret Empire news;

No more Spider-woman comic!! :((

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber Subscriber

Am catching up ^^.

Meaning that I'm through the IvX event and have read the two prime issues. Looks like it will get a bit more positive in tone from now on though I've learned not to trust to much in the powers that be at Marvel HQ.

Thomas Seitz wrote:
But it will probably not happen until Jane Foster dies.

Well, then I have to hope that will never happen. Like her too much.

Now onto Cap Steve Rogers. :)


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Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Not sure if it was meant to be an April fools joke or not but apparently Marvel is blaming their recent sales slup on readers not wanting diversity in their comics.

and here is me thinking, "dosen't this slump match up about the time you turned Cap into a Nazi. Couldn't possibly be people got pissed over that could it?"


Grey,

I think the person that said that clarified that they meant the readers enjoy the ALREADY diverse new characters and thus the decline is more about not having ENOUGH new series to go around for them to promote.

As for HydraCap as part of the decline in sales...not sure but it didn't help that's for sure.

Wormy,

I dunno about positive but at least Maximus is going to be in jail for a while. I mean I'm assuming it's the same space prison as the Kyln but who knows? So there's that. Now the Royals aren't in charge and the new breed is running things. (Plus Secret Warriors Inhuman edition)

I like her too Wormy. I don't WANT her to die but it seems that they aren't going to cure her cancer. So...

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Regarding Jane Foster: all we need is for Hel to owe Thor a favor. And hey, who just showed up in the last issue of Unworthy?


Greylurker wrote:

Not sure if it was meant to be an April fools joke or not but apparently Marvel is blaming their recent sales slup on readers not wanting diversity in their comics.

and here is me thinking, "dosen't this slump match up about the time you turned Cap into a Nazi. Couldn't possibly be people got pissed over that could it?"

Aside from the fact that's not exactly what the head of sales at Marvel said but rather an exaggeration from Bleeding Cool to bait click viewers, Hydra Cap is selling very well afaik and the same can be said for Jane Thor.

The same cannot be said for other series like Captain Marvel (which Marvel would love to turn into their flagship heroine for some reason and keep relaunching failure after failure...) though.

That said I think Marvel has done things in a mostly horrible way since the end of Secret Wars. Killing and replacing most of their flagship characters and using diversity as a selling point. Problem is diversity is not a selling point. People don't normally buy comics because the titular character is part of a minority or another.
PEOPLE BUY COMICS FOR GOOD STORIES (and good art) and Marvel has not been producing much of those lately and especially with its new titles. Things like CWII were really bad and appeared to be pointless for example.

So in short, the problem is not diversity but producing good stories with entertaining protagonists, plots and subplots, and have interesting antagonists and supporting casts. Check out most of the stuff that Marvel can't sell and you'll see why they are failing.

P.S.

Besides that I blame Bendis!

EDIT: As for Jane and cancer. Jane knows she could ask any of the asgardians for a cure using magic and it would work. She's refused the healing though considering it a cheap way out. This was stated on page by her IIRC.
Btw Hela isn't ruler of Hel at the moment, she was ousted by Angela.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Rogar Valertis wrote:
Problem is diversity is not a selling point.

This is very incorrect. Diversity, good art, and the promise of a good story are great selling points.


Rysky wrote:
Rogar Valertis wrote:
Problem is diversity is not a selling point.
This is very incorrect. Diversity, good art, and the promise of a good story are great selling points.

To some. To others diversity's a drawback. Some actively avoid "diverse" characters, especially if they think they're being used for some agenda. I think it's a good thing, but from a business perspective, it is a risk.

And good art and good story are both very subjective. I know I've liked stories that others here have condemned and vice versa. It's a complicated business.


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Rysky wrote:
Rogar Valertis wrote:
Problem is diversity is not a selling point.
This is very incorrect. Diversity, good art, and the promise of a good story are great selling points.

I stand by that notion but if you want I can expand it further:

Diversity alone doesn't sell comics in a sizeable way. In order to sell comics that will be successful and can support themselves you need good storytelling and good art.
Most people don't buy comic books to support diversity. They buy comic books to be entertained and for that you need goos stories, good characters, good plots and good art.
Some might buy comic books based on a political agenda but most people don't.

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