Thomas Seitz |
Set,
My take is Cap will step down, let Sam run with the shield for a while.
He might just take a back seat for a while, and maybe do a little soul searching. But honestly the worst is part (even more so than betraying everyone and everything) is his part in Bucky's demise. That...will not sit well with him. Ever.
This will not get swept under the rug. This will linger for many people. It might take years in comics but it will definitely not be undone by 2020.
Wormy,
Yeah I think our little cube is probably sunning herself out near the sun. Why do that say that? Because the solicits for Issue #4 (5?) talk about Ultron coming back. Where was Ultron? That's right in Sun. :)
So...I don't see her NOT playing a role, just not in the first couple issues.
Greylurker |
Set,
My take is Cap will step down, let Sam run with the shield for a while.
He might just take a back seat for a while, and maybe do a little soul searching. But honestly the worst is part (even more so than betraying everyone and everything) is his part in Bucky's demise. That...will not sit well with him. Ever.This will not get swept under the rug. This will linger for many people. It might take years in comics but it will definitely not be undone by 2020.
Will it though. How long did Tony have to deal with the repercussions of his actions during the first civil war story.
As I understand it they wipped his memory and then rebooted it from a point before he became a fascist Dictator who put people in an extra-dimensional prison and stripped them of their human rights.
Poof problems gone and new squeaky clean conscience.
did he ever face justice for the murder his Thor-bot commited?
Thomas Seitz |
Wormy,
Nope Ultron/Pym is coming back! :)
Grey,
The Murder Thor Bot was not a complete robot. Just a clone with implants. He's MIA as far as I know.
As for Tony facing consequences...well there was that whole "The entirety of reality just went BOOM on his watch..." But I do get he didn't get much else other than some stern looks at times.
lowfyr01 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thomas Seitz wrote:Grey,
Just because he's on the cover doesn't mean he's actually joining HYDRA.
At least...I hope not.
Maybe Mags was actually always a HYDRA agent. Just like Captain America!
** spoiler omitted **
It is a variant cover. It has the same relevance as the Mary Jane Covers that are coming. But I would not object if her Doctor Strange cover came true^^
Thomas Seitz |
Just a reminder, there is no other thread for Marvel but THIS one guys.
So to recap...I'm not liking the shape of Secret Empire but it will end regardless.
But until then!
Ultimates 2 #9 at least answered the question of CWII; "Where the hell did that freaking Death Celestial come from!"
Ben Reilly has issues. But I guess since you've been cloned, killed, cloned back to life and killed then went full villain, you have to have some kind of moral crisis.
RessurreXtion(sp) is going at least SOMETHING like a direction.
Thor (Jane Foster) finds out that fighting the Phoenix isn't easy even when you have the Destroyer on your side. Or the whole of Asgard.
Oh and yes Quentin Quire is still a dick.
Jen Walters still needs to find a way to Hulk out more often if only to get over her post traumatic problems. But at least she knows there's something wrong.
Yep. That's about it.
Greylurker |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
They must be having a lot of negative feedback if Marvel actually felt they needed to come out and ask people to have patience with the story and see it through to the end.
I gather they have been asking a lot of comic stores to wear Hydra t-shirts to help promote the story and have recieved a number of responses telling them to stuff it.
Kevin Mack |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Well unless there aiming for an ultiamtum style event I assume there gonna cosmic cube everything back to the way it was since any other solution just aint going to work with the bodycount they seem to already be building up with this one.
(Also having seen secret empire #1 gonna say for a bunch of guys marvel has been claiming arent really nazis they sure are acting a hell of a lot like Nazis)
Thomas Seitz |
Secret Empire #1:
Well as if killing off Bucky wasn't enough, now they killed Rick Jones.
That's THREE Cap Side kicks in a row now.
Also really Marvel? Odinson, Vision AND Scarlet Witch helping?! What you couldn't just find the damn clone or something? Dark Avengers?
SMH....
In other comics:
Jean Grey see the Phoenix and wonders why the Wrecking Crew don't recognize her. (Here's a tip guys, redhead with psychic powers: RUN AWAY!)
Ganke is going by Ned Leeds now. Weird.
Spiderman 2099 meets...Spiderman 2099?! The hell...?
Oh less we forget Dark Celestials/Death Celestials are still circling around somewhere waiting for the first incarnation of reality/The First Firmament to tell them what to do.
Thomas Seitz |
Kevin,
Maybe so but I'm more counting the current death count via the fact he a) shoved Jack Flag out a plane. (Who should have survived but I guess powers were off...) b) Had Bucky strapped to a rocket and exploded for Helmut and now c) Ordered the execution via firing squad of Rick FREAKING Jones...
phantom1592 |
Phantom,
Eh. I just figured it was a crappy way to kill of a character myself.
I mean I get you're upset about Nomad...but I think if Bucky goes out, it should be with some meaning AND explosions, not just one of them...
I could see that...
IF he's actually dead, I'm not surprised he went out quick like a chump... I kind of figured eventually he'd fall into the hands of a writer or editor who didn't think he should have been brought back in the first place, and just get written out in some group death scene... I'm actually surprised he made this long. Same with Jason Todd
That said, having Cap involved in his death... AND recreating his original death is fairly poetic in a way.
phantom1592 |
Poetic maybe but it's hardly the way I'd do it. In terms of having him being strapped to a rocket (AGAIN) that just explodes instead of say, having to stay with it so it explodes somewhere else.
Jason Todd's return was more DC trying to recapture the market. Whether or not he stays is...unclear.
I suspect Todd will be around for a while... he SHOULD have cut out when they did New 52. Between too many robins and cutting the timeline to 5 years, it would have been so logical to keep him dead and free up some time... but they chose not to.
Kevin Mack |
Kevin,
Maybe so but I'm more counting the current death count via the fact he a) shoved Jack Flag out a plane. (Who should have survived but I guess powers were off...) b) Had Bucky strapped to a rocket and exploded for Helmut and now c) Ordered the execution via firing squad of Rick FREAKING Jones...
Hence why I strongly suspect it will all be cosmic cubed away at the end of the series. Waaaay to high a bodycount for them not to.
Thomas Seitz |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So yeah... I've decided that Secret Empire is breaking my heart. What with worthiness now and the whole "Kill off ALL of Cap's former side kicks. At least the ones people from the 80s, 90s and 00 care about..."
But back to actual comics!
Wolverine/Laura Kinney might have a BETTER healing factor because she can kill a virus by TOUCH now! Top that Deadpool!
Wonder Man is back...so yay! Less yay? Deadpool leaves the Unity team to join HYDRA. In both the Uncanny Avengers AND his own series.
Cable is back! And then gone.
Spidey has Goblin issues and now Bobbi quit SHIELD. Dammit Bobbi! You deserve to be the super spy!
Doctor Doom decides Nadia Pym is way more awesome than him.
And America teams with Storm to find her inner zen powers. She might need it!
phantom1592 |
Well, Mjolnir says so.
And even beyond THAT, are we really to take this at face value when step 1 = Do something weird to Scarlet Witch, chaos magic and probability manipulator extrodainaire.... and step 2 is pick up magic hammer?
This can all be explained away pretty easy.
phantom1592 |
Phantom,
Jane-thor doesn't bother me as much as what I just saw now. But yeah maybe some kind of interaction via magics no one knows about? I mean...I guess?!
Once upon a time, "whosoever was worthy" was a very specific almost non-existant group. Cap, Beta Ray Bill... Odin via virtue of having put the spell on there... and that's ABOUT it...
Now?? The hammer's alive. It overwrites Odin's power, Thor got depressed and couldn't lift it, but it his ex-girlfriend could... The worthiness isn't as cut and dried as it used to be and shouldn't be taken as much gospel as it used to be. If I saw
Thomas Seitz |
Phantom,
Well yeah I think it is broken. But Jane Foster, to me, WAS always worthy.
Also Odin's power isn't what it used to be. I think. I mean he did die a while back... So there's that.
The Hammer isn't alive but I do think it might have some...sentience that allows it to be more selective. OR at least...I thought so.
Regardless, Jane-thor doesn't bother me. HydraCap using it, DOES!
He's not worthy.
Set |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Regardless, Jane-thor doesn't bother me. HydraCap using it, DOES!
He's not worthy.
While I agree, it's hard to say what the hammer, or the spell, considers worthy. If it was entirely on Odin, being a ruthless bloodthirsty whoring ale-swilling Viking berserker would be 'worthier' than being anything we'd define as 'good' in the modern age. And Mjolnir? Who knows what Mjolnir craves, other than to command storms and unleash destruction and smash faces and soar free through the cosmos.
'Worthy' to Mjolnir could be as simple as 'anyone who will pick me up and carry me laughing into battle.' (Although that would seem to rule out HydraCap, who is less about laughing and battle than an oppressive sort of enforced peace, making him the exact opposite of what Mjolnir would seem to 'want.' And, if that were the case, pre-Hydra Steve Rogers *also* seems very much the sort of person that Mjolnir would find boring, compared to, say, the Hulk.)
It's all been terribly inconsistent, and, at this point, 'Wanda did something to Odin's spell' is as good an explanation as any.
In the past, 'worthiness' was determined the first time you picked up the hammer, and it didn't matter if Thor got mind-controlled by Moondragon or the Red Skull, or went berserk and did crazy stuff, he never became 'unworthy.' Even the retcon that the hammer has always been judging worthiness hasn't been particularly enforced, as Jane's been in all sorts of moods when she's used the hammer, with nary a peep from Mjolnir that she's doing anything wrong, making it more like the old days, of 'you get judged once.' In light of that, actually, it could be a different sort of explanation. Mjolnir deemed Steve Rogers worthy, a long time ago, and Mjolnir generally doesn't change it's mind, just as it didn't change it's mind when Thor would get mind-controlled or use the hammer for 'unworthy' purposes.
Eh. My head hurts.
Greylurker |
Phantom,
Jane-thor doesn't bother me as much as what I just saw now. But yeah maybe some kind of interaction via magics no one knows about? I mean...I guess?!
Grey,
True! She did save the day! Also Liz Allan is going down a darker road than her current 616 counterpart....Maybe?
Yeah big ol' Mug of Black Goo, never a good thing
I do like that in RYV world Civil War apparently never happened. Although the idea of Logan and Jean Married with kid is still a little wierd
ShinHakkaider |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I've been reading superhero comics for a very long time as well, from 6-7 and I'm 45 going on 46 now, and I still don't understand why people are bothered by things like Hydra-Cap. Superhero comics, the memorable ones aren't about consistency they've always been about upending the status quo in some way that makes for an interesting story.
As for Hydra-Cap being able to lift Mjolnir, why shouldn't he be able to? If Hydra is the Neo-Nazi/white supremacist organization and Steve Rogers is their paragon, their pure white paragon? Why wouldn't he be worthy? Especially when in the White Supremacist/Neo-Nazi community holds the Norse mythos and the strength of Ayran purity represented by the Vikings and their ilk in the highest regards? Since when has "worthy" always meant good in terms of the "American values" of good? Whatever that means or EVER meant?
Hydra-Cap is STILL Steve Rogers. He still thinks he's doing the right thing. Hell, he's at odds with other members of the Hydra Council on how NOT brutal he is. He wants peace through ORDER. The only thing that's different is the measure of freedom allowed to others because order can't be maintained if there is "freedom".
I've been reading this story since Standoff. This thing was carefully laid out early on and admittedly while I knew there was going to be a price to pay for the Cosmic Cube restoring Steve to his younger vital self, I didn't know it was going to be THIS.
It's a Steve/Hydra/Cosmic Cube story on a much grander scale that's been told before and the stakes are pretty high. The story isn't poorly written in terms of structure and I'm going to wait until SECRET EMPIRE is actually finished to pass judgment on it, but so far having actually read everything that's been leading up to it, as opposed to reading Wikipedia or what passes for comic "journalist" sites? I like the story. I like the setup. I like insight into Hydra and the various personalities involved. But mostly I like that this is still Steve Rogers, just a more ruthless, cunning and driven Steve Rogers. And he's working for the other side.