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Throwing flying blade Swashbuckler build advice.


Advice


Hey there so I just had someone mention to me a flying blade Swashbuckler build with a couple level dip in Far strike Monk in a thread. the monk dip seems pretty nice since I'm effectively getting four bonus feats for 2 levels(regular monk bonus feats + quick draw and flurry)

So, here is the build so far:

Halfling
STR: 8 DEX: 21(level) CON: 12 INT: 8 WIS: 14 CHA: 14
Traits: The UMD trait; fort, will, init, or fates favored trait
Far strike monk/Flying blade swashbuckler
Lvl 1(Monk1):FLurry, Quick draw, Point blank shot, Weapon focus:starknife
LVL2(Monk2):Precise shot
Lvl3(Swash1): Starry grace
Lvl4(Swash2)
Lvl5(swash3): Deadly shot
Lvl6(swash4): Weapon specialization(startoss style?)
Lvl7(swash5): Clustered shots
Lvl8(swash6)
Lvl9(swash7): Point blank master?(startoss comet?)

So I'm wondering if I should be going for the startoss style feats or not. There is obviously the drawback of having to use the blinkback belt over a dex item. So I'm going to have to compensate somehow. What do you think? any suggestions?


In hindsight getting 4 levels of weapon master fighter might have been a better choice so I could get ricochet toss, but it wouldn't have been as cool.

Sovereign Court

Martial Focus -> Ricochet Toss now you can have your Dex belt and eat it too!

Perhaps I have misused the joke...

Question 1) Are you using a dagger? It looks like you have Starry Grace so likely not. You should. If nothing else then for the crit range of a Dagger (19-20) compared to a Starknife. Also, River Rat trait for +1 damage, Deific Obedience (Pharasma) for +2 to attack rolls, and perhaps Fencer for +1 to attack rolls with daggers and sword like weapons on AoOs.
Starry Grace also does not work with Flurry.

Question 2) Point Blank Master, Why? You would "lower" your damage per round. I have a similar build, and I absolutely want to provoke, and as often as possible. Because of Disrupting Counter, combat reflexes, and a Fortuitous enchanted dagger. Though the latter is only once per round.

My build also didn't take Clustered Shots.

V for Vastatio:
Human; starting Str: 12, Dex: 15+2 human, Con: 13, Int: 8, Wis: 14, Cha 14; +1 Dex at 4, +1 Con at 8.
3 levels of Swashbuckler first, 2 levels of Monk and then the rest Swashbuckler (though I may actually go with Vigilante after Swashbuckler 5 for RP reasons)
1: Point Blank Shot; Human: Weapon Focus(Dagger)
3: Startoss Style
4: Monk Bonus: Quickdraw, Combat Reflexes
5: Startoss Comet, Monk Bonus: Precise Shot
6: Swashbuckler Bonus: Martial Focus
7: Ricochet Toss
9: Startoss Shower
10: Swashbuckler Bonus: Deadly Aim
11: Deific Obedience(Pharasma)


Oh f+!&. It seems i have made a grave mistake. My build doesn't work at all. I will have to rethink this a bit since I am going to need some semblance of a strength score(damnit). That's what I get for quickly throwing together a build a couple hours before a session. And i really wanted to keep this build halfling as well. I think I might consider reverting to the melee version of this build. But that is obviously not as cool. Is it possible to use the agile weapon quality and throw a dagger? since it doesn't say you specifically cant...

Sovereign Court

Agile is a melee weapon enchant, the argument I have seen against it working for thrown is that when you are throwing it is a ranged weapon and not an eligible target for a melee weapon enchant.


Well, ill have to run it by my DM and see how he will rule it. I feel like clustered shots is kind of needed to counter DR. But then again the build is already a kind of melee/ranged hybrid


Reccomendation, Divine fighting technique: Desna's shooting star, starknife only, which means less crit chance, but gives charisma to attack and damage, removes need for strength. Or a 3 lvl dip to unchained rouge gives dex to damage and sneak attack which could be useful in some situations. You could also dip lore or nature oracle for charisma to AC and (depending on which) reflex saves or I think it's CMD, removing the need for dex almost entirely


Most of the time my DM just follows the general PFS rules so I'm not sure if he would allow desna's shooting star. I should be fine just switching to daggers and praying that my DM will allow agile.


so here is the revized build>

This is assuming I get to use agile
Halfling
STR: 8 DEX: 21(level) CON: 12 INT: 8 WIS: 14 CHA: 14
Traits: The UMD trait, River rat
Far strike monk/Flying blade swashbuckler
Lvl 1(Monk1):FLurry, Quick draw, Point blank shot, Weapon focus:Dagger
LVL2(Monk2):Precise shot
Lvl3(Swash1): Combat reflexes
Lvl4(Swash2)
Lvl5(swash3): Deadly shot
Lvl6(swash4): Martial focus?(startoss style?)
Lvl7(swash5): Clustered shots
Lvl8(swash6)
Lvl9(swash7): Ricochet toss?(startoss comet?)


Anyone have additional advice? Anyone have any advice on trying to avoid grapples and combat maneuvers? Besides prehaps ring of freedom of movement or potion of gaseous form.


What is Deadly Shot? Is that Deadly Aim, or a feat not on the PRD?


Ah crap yeah, that.


Come to think of it I don't even need weapon focus anymore with the dagger. Might as well take deific obedience pharasma instead.

Sovereign Court

Startoss style would require weapon focus if you go that route.


Also, as I have monk levels, can I still use a buckler or would I lose all my monk abilities?


"When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses his AC bonus, as well as his fast movement and flurry of blows abilities."
The other abilities e.g. evasion are fine but you'd miss flurry of blows.

If you max escape artist then you can survive grapples. The others can inconvenience you but aren't going to take you out of the combat.


Damn yeah I guess I was grasping at straws here.

Sovereign Court

UMD, Wand of Mage Armor and Shield.

And then you might as well pick up a wand of Heightened Awareness.
Then Longstrider.
Maybe Comprehend Languages.
And Faerie Fire, Remove Fear, Remove Sickness, Bless, Honeyed Tongue, Veil of Positive Energy, Infernal Healing/Cure Light Wounds...

Even a Wand of Burning Disarm, though it will have a low DC. Of course, if they succeed on their Reflex save they drop their metal weapon...

I may have a wand problem.


haha thanks for the want suggestions firebug. I feel like some of those are a bit much but most of them are cool =). I also feel like you could make a pretty damn effective melee version of this build and you could even add risky striker into the build.


Firebug wrote:

Martial Focus -> Ricochet Toss now you can have your Dex belt and eat it too!

Perhaps I have misused the joke...

Question 1) Are you using a dagger? It looks like you have Starry Grace so likely not. You should. If nothing else then for the crit range of a Dagger (19-20) compared to a Starknife. Also, River Rat trait for +1 damage, Deific Obedience (Pharasma) for +2 to attack rolls, and perhaps Fencer for +1 to attack rolls with daggers and sword like weapons on AoOs.
Starry Grace also does not work with Flurry.

Question 2) Point Blank Master, Why? You would "lower" your damage per round. I have a similar build, and I absolutely want to provoke, and as often as possible. Because of Disrupting Counter, combat reflexes, and a Fortuitous enchanted dagger. Though the latter is only once per round.

My build also didn't take Clustered Shots. ** spoiler omitted **

Disrupting counter is the coolest stuff ever since the invention star shaped ice cubes...

I would like to make a build flying blade 3/eldritch guardian X and have familiar sidekick next to me with paired opportunist& improved disarm partner.
The idea is a character trying to FAIL at disarm and then stab them with the AOOs.

one failed disarm triggers AOO from the familiar & me
The AOO from the enemy can be turned into an AOO from familiar and me
fortuitous would trigger a third AOO from familiar and me.

and doing multiple disarm attempts by round

Inspiration:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/3xl61z/build_math_improved _disarm_partner/

but subbing flying blade eldritch guardian for sacred huntsmaster

Think this could work?

Sovereign Court

Yes, until things just stop taking AoOs. Then you are left with just failed disarm attempts.

This the biggest issue I have with the flying blade. Eventually, you just stop being attacked, and other people in the party get focused more.

I have 2 "parry" based characters. V, a human monk/flying blade modeled after V for Vendetta. And Merf, an undine (almost human, hat of disguise to appear as a Merfolk) UMonk/URogue/Eldritch Guardian Fighter. Fights unarmed with his trusty squirrel (protector, evolved for extra reach on its bite), both always prone (because he's a 'Merfolk' and doesn't have legs!) using monkey style, and intrepid rescuer. Basically, anyone who attacks Merf or his squirrel will provoke an AoO from each of them because they are prone (intrepid rescuer, paired opportunist)


Haha that Merf build sounds hilarious to play. Can you write out here?
Yeah, I kind of feel like I might just turn this version of the build into a sort of melee version. Taking piranha strike/risky striker instead of deadly aim.

Sovereign Court

I'll post it in a couple hours when I get off work.

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Merf, the Merfolk:
Currently Level 7 for PFS.
Also, looks like I had recently retrained the URogue level. Mostly that was there to get weapon finesse a little quicker. That is why Weapon Finesse shows up at level 7.
Undine(Mostly Human, Amphibious, Hydrated Vitality, Water Sense)
Fighter(Eldritch Guardian, Mutation Warrior) 1 -> UMonk 1 -> Fighter 5 (currently)
*Shared with Familiar
Trait: Mizu Ki Hikari Rebels (+1 damage unarmed)
Trait: Bullied (+1 bonus to AoO unarmed)
1st: Paired Opportunist*
Monk: Improved Unarmed Strike*, Combat Reflexes*, Flurry of Blows, Stunning Fist*
3rd: Intrepid Rescuer*
5th: Evolved Familiar(Bite)
Fighter 4B: Monkey Style*
Weapon Training: Monk (idea was Shuriken for ranged, but with str 8 it hasn't been useful)
7th: Weapon Finesse*
Fighter 6B: Piranha Strike*

Initial Stat Array (and modifiers): 10 Str (-2 Race); 12 Con; 15 Dex (+2 Race +1 Level 4 +2 Belt); 13 Int; 14 Wis (+2 Headband); 13 Cha
13 Int and Cha are required for Evolved Familiar.
Max skill ranks in: Acrobatics, Climb, Disguise(incredible protege); 4 ranks in: UMD; 1 rank in: Craft(Traps), Perception, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Swim.

Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists (2, one dim sized).

Likely Wings or Spontaneous Healing for level 7 Mutagen Discovery. Monkey Moves at 9, probably advanced weapon training (warrior spirit, versatile training or item mastery) also at 9 for the Fighter 8 bonus feat.


Awesome, Firebug. I really want my next character to use this build. Is there anything you wish you had done differently now that you have played it for a while?

Sovereign Court

Squirrel was for amusement, I am certain you can find a better 'combat' familiar or one that gives a better bonus over +3 sleight of hand.

I enjoyed the RP aspect of being a 'fish out of water', but if you don't feel the need to justify why you are prone all the time you may want to choose a different races from Undine.

Damage will feel really low until Agile Amulets and still felt low until Piranha Strike. Unfortunately, pretty much every other feat was required first before damage. Human would help with the feats. The whole reason I dipped URogue was to get as much online by level 6 as possible (GM credit blob until 6).

Probably a higher UMD. I have been sinking a lot of points into Climb and Acrobatics (though Acrobatics is very useful) because I want Monkey Moves. Again, Human would help quite a bit.


Firebug wrote:

Yes, until things just stop taking AoOs. Then you are left with just failed disarm attempts.

This the biggest issue I have with the flying blade. Eventually, you just stop being attacked, and other people in the party get focused more.

I have 2 "parry" based characters. V, a human monk/flying blade modeled after V for Vendetta. And Merf, an undine (almost human, hat of disguise to appear as a Merfolk) UMonk/URogue/Eldritch Guardian Fighter. Fights unarmed with his trusty squirrel (protector, evolved for extra reach on its bite), both always prone (because he's a 'Merfolk' and doesn't have legs!) using monkey style, and intrepid rescuer. Basically, anyone who attacks Merf or his squirrel will provoke an AoO from each of them because they are prone (intrepid rescuer, paired opportunist)

Failing the disarm attempt triggers its own an AOO from IMPROVED DISARM PARTNER, for your buddy and since you both have paired opportunists it also triggers from you with +4 to the attempt.

the improved disarm partner is just a vehicle to turn the PC iterative attacks into AOOs for both PC and animal/familiar, doubling the attack output (because now you are attacking with two agents) and doing it at BAB +5 for the PC (paired opportunist+fencer/ and BAB +4 for the AC/familiar. Also because you are two weapon fighting, you squeeze in more attacks than you should be normally allowed for your BAB, this helps you fail the disarm, but doesn't affect you AOOs.

All of this is without using/opportune parry riposte or disrupting counter, I think opportune parry risposte or disrupting counter would just be the icing on the cake, another level of defense, you wouldn't need it by itself, it would just generate more AOOs (in case of disrupting counter)or better your protection (in case of opportune parry ripose)

Sovereign Court

Ah, that's it. I just looked at Disarm Partner, not Improved.


i dont know if it was ever officially answered but it looks like when a Flying Blade is attacked the FB can use an AoO in a Disruptive Counter, giving a -4 to the attack to hit the FB and allowing the FB to spend a second use of AoO (but not an actual AoO and so not activating two AoOs off a single action) to parry the attack that is now penalized and then finally use an immediate action to get a second, non-AoO, attack in at the target. That combination by itself is so useful that i would take another look at the archetype for a "throwing" build. It just so happens that it is a throwing build that no one actually wants to get into melee with. Of course it needs a high DEX and careful management of Panache as you use two points per round in melee but with two free attacks you are likely to drop your enemy and recover a point anyways. Eventually you could use Signature Deed for Disruptive Counter to get some cost control but that is pretty late game.

Sovereign Court

I've been playing it as wanting to be in melee as a ranged flying blade. Fortuitous weapon, so 1 Panache each round counts as "2" AoOs. I haven't been doubling up on Parry and Riposte though.

If you are looking to save a point or two, Stylish Riposte from Weapon Trick may give you some free AoOs.

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