Dueling Weapon Special Ability clearly states it's an Enchantment Bonus to Initiative.
Guardian and Defending states it allocate the weapon’s enhancement as a bonus that stacks with all other bonuses. There for, is not an Enchantment Bonus.
So what is Pitfall? Enchantment? Luck? A bonus that stacks with all others?
From, Taldor, Echoes Glory, Page 27
Pitfall (Weapon Quality)
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 5th
Price +1 bonus
Description:
This ability can only be placed on a melee weapon. A weapon with
the pitfall quality gives you a heightened danger sense. When
holding a pitfall weapon, apply the weapon’s enhancement bonus
to your initiative checks, Reflex saves made to avoid traps, and AC
against attacks made by traps. For example, a +5 pitfall longsword
gives you a +5 bonus to initiative, +5 to Reflex saves made to
avoid traps, and a +5 bonus to AC against attacks made by traps.
Wielding two weapons with the pitfall weapon quality only grants
the bonuses from the better weapon.
Sound like an Enchantment Bonus to me. As it says "apply the weapon’s enhancement bonus to your initiative checks"
It says apply the weapon's enhancement bonus to those checks, but doesn't list a type of bonus that it is.
I could see it being either untyped or enhancement.
Edit: I was thinking all the bonuses only apply against traps, but then I realized it doesn't actually say that. It gives an initiative bonus, which doesn't make sense to have against traps because you either set them off or you notice them and don't set them off. You don't roll initiative against traps.
Yeah, I'm leaning towards Pitfall providing an enhancement bonus just to prevent stacking with things like Dueling.
It's an enhancement bonus.. "apply the enhancement bonus" if you "apply as," "apply" or "use the weapons" an enhancement bonus it's always an enhancement bonus unless specifically converted.
But I'd probably ignore that and go with insight, heh. :)
Problem is, if it's an enhancement bonus then the bonus to AC doesn't stack with the enhancement bonus from magic armor or shields. I strongly doubt that was intended.
Problem is, if it's an enhancement bonus then the bonus to AC doesn't stack with the enhancement bonus from magic armor or shields. I strongly doubt that was intended.
No, that's a misreading.
Remember that you typically get an enhancement bonus TO another bonus.
Armor grants an armor bonus to AC; magic armor grants an enhancement bonus to that armor bonus.
Shields grant a shield bonus to AC; magic shields grant an enhancement bonus to that shield bonus.
Thick skin grants a natural armor bonus to AC; barkskin grants an enhancement bonus to that natural armor bonus.
That's why all three stack.
If this offers an enhancement bonus to AC, it would stack because it's enhancing AC generally, not any specific bonus to AC.
Armor grants an armor bonus to AC; magic armor grants an enhancement bonus to that armor bonus.
Shields grant a shield bonus to AC; magic shields grant an enhancement bonus to that shield bonus.
Actually, the rules pretty explicitly disagree with you.
Rules:
Bloodthirsty wrote:
its enhancement bonus to AC increases by 1 for 1 round after its wearer deals damage with a natural attack or melee weapon
Defiant wrote:
the item’s enhancement bonus to AC is +2 better than its actual bonus and provides DR 2/— against attacks from that foe
Deflective Shield wrote:
this bonus cannot exceed the sum of the armor and enhancement bonus to AC provided by the shield that the armor master is currently carrying
Eagle Knight Dress Uniform wrote:
This effect increases the armor’s enhancement bonus to AC from +2 to +5 for the next 10 minutes.
Guarding wrote:
This ability only affects a shield's enhancement bonus to Armor Class
Holy Shield wrote:
The target gains your shield’s shield bonus and enhancement bonus to Armor Class until your next turn
Ramming wrote:
the shield’s enhancement bonus to Armor Class applies to the attack and damage rolls
Rebounding wrote:
A rebounding shield provides an additional +2 enhancement bonus to AC against thrown weapons
Rhino Hide wrote:
In addition to granting a +2 enhancement bonus to AC
Shields wrote:
the cost of the enhancement bonus on attack rolls would need to be added into the cost of the shield and its enhancement bonus to AC
Throwing Shield wrote:
Neither a shield’s enhancement bonus to AC nor its shield spikes apply to your attack or damage rolls.
Orfamay Quest wrote:
Remember that you typically get an enhancement bonus TO another bonus.
Not according to the "Bonus Types" section in Ultimate Magic. Enhancement bonuses typically apply to "ability scores, AC, attacks, damage, [and] speed."
Orfamay Quest wrote:
Thick skin grants a natural armor bonus to AC; barkskin grants an enhancement bonus to that natural armor bonus.
Agreed. Barkskin works differently than magical armor and shields.
Orfamay Quest wrote:
That's why all three stack.
No, it's not. Enhancement bonuses to AC from armor and shields stack because the rules explicitly say they do, and specific trumps general.
Shields wrote:
Shield enhancement bonuses stack with armor enhancement bonuses.
AC doesn't have a subcategory for weapons and the ability doesn't call out what (if any) subcategory the enhancement bonus is applied to, so the enhancement bonus goes straight to AC as with any other like magical item effect. Ergo it doesn't stack with other enhancement bonuses that go direct to the 'global' AC.
I suppose the question for GMs (and designers) if they don't think a thing is entirely clear..is, would anybody take a 'Pitfall weapon' as a +1 cost '+5 magical item enhancement bonus to Init' ability on a +5 weapon, given a choice?
It seems to me that every character should be going for Init bonuses, and an item that scales at a +1 cost is good.
Given that magic item bonuses don't normally stack the fact that it doesn't stack with other like items on the enhancement bonus interpretation doesn't detract from it's value as a reasonably priced and powered ability, making it anything other than an enhancement bonus makes it OP for a +1 ability.
It being 3 bonuses rolled into one, and scaling, makes it powerful for a +1 special. Compare to arrow deflection or something? Granted you get attacked by arrows on more rounds over a career, but initiative is effectively a bonus to every combat round ever, even if you never get hit.
