I just rolled up a Vigilante last week, and I kept telling my group, "there's a lot to juggle here".
She's a kitsune vigilante. Her normal kitsune form is her social persona, and her human form is the vigilante. However, she can stay in human form and just take off the costume and be the "alter ego". Though technically there's only two personas, the kitsune social and the human vigilante, I can run it as three different personas, with two separate alignments. I have to keep track of what weapons to use depending on who she it as the time as she has weapons associated to her vigilante persona. I have to keep track of what abilities to use and when, least people figure out who she is. Then there's the three of four different numbers her disguise can be and when it's which number depending on her persona and form. How to talk like which persona and when. Where you do and don't have renown.
So mechanically, vigilante might not be the most complex, however for role playing there's a lot of stuff to juggle.
You can make it more complex by going a spellcaster archetype, *and* getting some Kitsune tails :)
Hm, Magical Child may be the most complex as that grants a familiar which, itself, has multiple forms.
I actually considered using the Magical Child archetype, as the character I'm playing is on the young side. And you're correct, given the Kitsune possibility of having magical abilities, I could have made her even more complicated. However, when I was developing the character, I was picturing her more of a martial fighter rather than magical, so I went with straight Vigilante.
So, I agree that my vigilante build isn't even the most complicated.
System Mastery Wizard. ;)
I have not played any occult classes after the Beta. From all the classes U have played, Inquisitor was the one with the most moving parts.
The spells weren't bad, but then comes the bane, judgements and more.
First Edition Chivalry and Sorcery Power Word Mage. You got 3 points college credit.Oh, if we're going to be discussing OTHER games, Champions is probably the most complex I've played.
The all-time winner for complexity is probably Phoenix Command, or maybe Eoris.
Phoenix Command? You never played Leading Edge Games' other creation Swords Path/Glory, advanced. The unit of time was 1/12 of a second. The length of the sleeves of your chain hauberk affected how fast you went, as did your weapon and they type of blow. You know how deep your blow went, if it hit bones or arteries, and exactly how much damage it took to blow through a target.
Phoenix Command? You never played Leading Edge Games' other creation Swords Path/Glory, advanced. The unit of time was 1/12 of a second. The length of the sleeves of your chain hauberk affected how fast you went, as did your weapon and they type of blow. You know how deep your blow went, if it hit bones or arteries, and exactly how much damage it took to blow through a target.First Edition Chivalry and Sorcery Power Word Mage. You got 3 points college credit.Oh, if we're going to be discussing OTHER games, Champions is probably the most complex I've played.
The all-time winner for complexity is probably Phoenix Command, or maybe Eoris.
Rolemaster
Every weapon had it's own to-hit/damage chart vs. each AC.
All character advancement was done via development points, including to-hit, hit points, and spell lists acquired.
boh, it wasn't that complex to make a character... running a fight, that was the true horror.
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Honorable mention: the playtest version of the medium
E.g.:
Triune Vessel (Su) : At 11th level, a medium has gained
the ability to channel three spirits into himself at once. The
tertiary spirit must match the alignment or ability score of
at least one of his first two spirits.
If the tertiary spirit does not match the ability score of
either of the first two spirits, the medium gains its spirit
bonus but not its spirit powers.
If the tertiary spirit matches the ability score of the
medium’s primary spirit, the medium gains its lesser spirit
power but not its spirit bonus. At 19th level, he gains the
third spirit’s intermediate spirit power.
If the tertiary spirit matches the ability score of the
secondary spirit, the medium chooses one of the secondary
and tertiary spirits to grant its spirit powers; the other
grants its spirit bonus.And this was not static. Some of the 18 spirits had abilities that changed things on the fly:
Hand-to-Hand (Lesser, Su) : You gain Weapon Finesse as
a bonus feat. When using Weapon Finesse to make a melee
attack and adding your Strength bonus to damage, the Rabbit
Prince counts as a Strength spirit in addition to a Dexterity
spirit. This may cause other spirits to grant you their spirit
powers instead of their spirit bonus.
I should have considered that one in my entry given that Mark finished writing the Harrowed Medium and it has been played internally at Paizo in its completed state.
#RemindsPaizoOfMyOpenWalletPolicyWithThisVersionOfMedium
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I just rolled up a Vigilante last week, and I kept telling my group, "there's a lot to juggle here".
She's a kitsune vigilante. Her normal kitsune form is her social persona, and her human form is the vigilante. However, she can stay in human form and just take off the costume and be the "alter ego". Though technically there's only two personas, the kitsune social and the human vigilante, I can run it as three different personas, with two separate alignments. I have to keep track of what weapons to use depending on who she it as the time as she has weapons associated to her vigilante persona. I have to keep track of what abilities to use and when, least people figure out who she is. Then there's the three of four different numbers her disguise can be and when it's which number depending on her persona and form. How to talk like which persona and when. Where you do and don't have renown.
So mechanically, vigilante might not be the most complex, however for role playing there's a lot of stuff to juggle.
You can make it more complex by going a spellcaster archetype, *and* getting some Kitsune tails :)
Hm, Magical Child may be the most complex as that grants a familiar which, itself, has multiple forms.
Better yet, make the Familiar a Mauler so that each of those forms has two separate modes!
(Foxes make the best Maulers too, which is a plus.)
Inquisitor has a good archetype. Preacher lets you ignore all those pesky teamwork feats and gives you a decent replacement.
My issues with magus were never about how its abilities interact within the magus class, but how they interacted with other feat options, and then keeping track of all the available swift actions and whether I used an immediate action last round, blah, blah, blah.
I'm still wrapping my head around kineticist, but mostly because I've yet to play one. Seeing it in the book is one thing, but a class always makes more sense to me once I've seen it in play.
Druid. Aka spreadsheet simulator
Full spell casting
Animal companion
Spontaneous summons
Wildshape
Optional magic item crafting
Plenty of skill points
Thankfully, you only need to understand one or two of those to be effective but all those options are there.
