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So my lady and I are back at the drawing board again, Psychic Anthology has some real nice goodies. An assumption I'm making is that Kinetic Knight gets approved for PFS, so aside from the archetypes and new blasts I'd like to stick to PFS legal stuff.
Anyhow, she really wants to make her Halfling Aerokineticist into a Knight - which is fine and dandy but it makes her a MADer character. Instead of high Dex and Con we now needed Dex, Con, Str (and Cha not at a negative) - and this results in a final STR score of 16 on a 3/4 BAB class. Those numbers are not what I'd want to see on a physical attacker normally, except Kineticists can get touch attacks with energy blades.
Lightning is decent for her first blade, except it doesn't really have any energy composites that I can see. The rest of what air gives her is great - who doesn't want a flying "martial" in fullplate? Except for the part of it's second blast being physical and therefore not fitting our goals of an expanded element.
Fire has the problem of being heavily resisted, and really wants to double up for Blue Flame.
Negative (void) doesn't work on Undead, but void is an odd element and I don't know what it really adds except a backup energy type.
Cold (water) has resistance problems like fire, but not quite as bad, and its' defense isn't totally useless on a knight.
Positive (wood) is the worst blast imaginable, but it can hurt haunts and the wood defense is decent.
Any ideas on which one would be the best choice for an expanded element?
why do you all of a sudden need str? Go high dex and grab weapon finesse like other kineticists. sure you don't get the dex to AC cause you're in full-plate, but it's not like having a high str was doing anything that weapon finesse doesn't do. yeah, you'll probably want some more str than normal kineticists, but you just need to move around in your armor.
Why do you need high Dex? You've got good armor proficiencies, are encouraged to use a shield, and can't make ranged attacks. Your form infusions are tied up, so the DCs on almost anything will be Con-based.
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Chess Pwn - the Str is mostly to be able to wear the armor and shield -after calculating that we want 14 STR at least it hit the point where we might as well go hog on it because we just spent half our stat points on that already. If we did have points enough for Finesse she'd be wearing O-Yoroi, maybe Mithral eventually, and could use physical blasts. What STR do you think we could get away with?
QuidEst - I now see I wasn't really clear, I meant more along the lines of we don't want to dump it. Looking at the archetype I see that there's nothing we want to dump at all.
And no opinions on which element to take for the second energy blade?
@others: You need the STR to carry the heavy armor and shield at the minimum (or be a dwarf).
I would argue that if she is going for a heavy armor build then stick to a typical STR martial build with STR>CON>DEX>mental stats. You're already giving up your ranged blast so just go with STR/CON as your main stats with just enough DEX to fill out the small max dex bonus of your armor. Reflex is one of your good saves so you won't suffer much by it.
Honestly I probably would go with Water(water). It is actually electric's only composite blast and it also opens you up for the water defense talent that you noted. Plus having a higher damage physical blast wouldn't be a bad thing for options and for foes with really high SR.
I'll agree with both Chess Pwn and QuidEst. Go either Dex or Str. Trying for both just gets you meh stats for both.
Dex has the plus of boosting a save and there are plenty of ways to carry more stuff so as long as you don't tank Str you're golden.
Str has the bonus of using a two handed backup weapon [in case your energy element is resisted] for 1.5 Str damage. You also innately carry lots of stuff, bend bars, break doors, lift portcullis, ect.
PS: For weight, things like Basic Chaokinesis, Backpack (masterwork), Cut Your Losses, Burdenless, Muleback Cords, Ant Hall, Efficient Packer, Muscle of the Society, ect let you carry more. Just Adopted [Efficient Packer] and Muscle of the Society, two traits, lets you count as +4 for carry. Add the masterwork backpack for another +1. That means a 10 str acts like a 15 with only mundane equipment and 2 traits...
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I got the stats figured guys
Str:15 Dex:12 Con:16 Int/Wis/Cha:10
It's the blast now.
Texas - Electric also has an air composite, but it had the same problem of being physical. If she wasn't set on a halfling then all the elements would be on the table as we could get better Str for hitting - as would a conductive weapon. As it stands I think all energy will work best for not being a miss-bot.
Graystone - thank you! The carrying capacity stuff is a great help. Now we can go all Dex and be silly. Might still do energy blades, but mixed blades are an option again.
I'll also mention she wants the Animal Ally tree, because wolves are cool. so feats are pretty much all accounted for except the level 1 feat which goes to either weapon finesse or spell penetration.
Personally I would go strength based Air/Earth.
Acid is not as heavily resisted as fire/cold, or alternatively, just use earth blast instead of carrying a backup sword that would need to be enchanted to be useful.
What are you actually getting from the archetype that you can't get (better) from taking heavy armor proficiency at level 1? as it is you are delaying your defensive talent until level 4 and increasing its minimum cost to 1 burn (minimum 2 for water knights) instead of 0 burn. That doesn't seem like a very good trade for resolve to me.
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you get kinetic whip at lv5 for free. That's pretty big, not waiting till 7 and not being locked into doubling on your element.
Ah, i missed that part, do you get any of the other melee options early?
If I recall (and I may be wrong; it's been a while), you get all of the melee infusions early. Plus "kinetic pounce" with swift blade rush.
You get Kinetic Blade as a 0 burn infusion, as well as KWhip earlier. You get a ton of melee combat infusions to go with the blade/whip. You get med/heavy armor proficiency and you can attune a held shield to your element to be able to gather power while holding the shield. And you get samurai's resolve class feature at a delayed progression. Oh and you can qualify for combat feats with CON instead of INT as pre-req.
I'd suggest to not go Halfling or pick weapon Finesse at level 1. Pretty sure you want a energy attack for this kind of build. If you have negative stat allergy this might work for you:
STR 10 DEX 18 CON 16 INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 10
Consider that while you CAN wear heavy armor, you do not have to do so to survive the early levels. Then pick up Muleback cords and possibly the muscle of the society trait. Also remember that armor for small creatures weighs half of what it weighs for medium size characters.
Out of curiosity. Would risky striker work with an energy blast?
Out of curiosity. Would risky striker work with an energy blast?
I'd say that it probably hinges on "with a melee weapon". There was that big FAQ about such things recently... let me have a look at that.
That said, I'd probably allow it in my games without too much thought. ^_^
Or really dump Cha (AKA 9) and get Int or Wis to 12
I still think energy attacks are not absolutely required, 3/4 BAB with Small size, high dex and elemental overflow should get you pretty close to the attack bonus of other martials.
But isn't the really big advantage of physical attacks that they can be combined with PA and once you include that you are really lagging behind the curve.
Also you are always lagging behind other martials as you can't enhance your Kinetic Blade.
What are you actually getting from the archetype that you can't get (better) from taking heavy armor proficiency at level 1? as it is you are delaying your defensive talent until level 4 and increasing its minimum cost to 1 burn (minimum 2 for water knights) instead of 0 burn. That doesn't seem like a very good trade for resolve to me.
In order to take heavy armor proficiency, the medium proficiency feat would also have to be taken as that is a pre-req.
Or really dump Cha (AKA 9) and get Int or Wis to 12
I still think energy attacks are not absolutely required, 3/4 BAB with Small size, high dex and elemental overflow should get you pretty close to the attack bonus of other martials.
But isn't the really big advantage of physical attacks that they can be combined with PA and once you include that you are really lagging behind the curve.
Also you are always lagging behind other martials as you can't enhance your Kinetic Blade.
Given that the Kinetic Blade does a scaling crapton of damage, it has a lot less need of enhancement.
I wouldn't worry too much about "your composite is not an energy blast" since a Kineticist shouldn't be using their composite blast regularly until level 11 or so, and having both a physical and an energy blast available is useful for a variety of situations (high SR and low AC? Use the Physical blast.)
Honestly, if you're starting with lighting blade as your element then that means you're hitting touch AC and you really don't need to worry at all about accuracy. I think your best bet would be CON>STR>DEX=Mental stats. If you want to make use of diplomacy as a class skill then you shouldn't dump CHA, shouldn't dump WIS with a poor will save and INT is your skill points. Just aim for a ~14 DEX, ~16-18 STR and ~18-20 CON after racial modifiers.
At level 7 you should be able to expand to a physical blast (water or double down on air) and your EO will give you enough accuracy to do well with it, and you can start power attacking with your physical blade. Create a 1H blade and wield it with 2H for the 1.5 damage increase from power attack. Going with a STR build will let you carry the heavy armor and shield and let you power attack. With a good reflex save and a +2 to DEX for heavy armor AC, you really don't need to Dex/finesse build at all.
Or really dump Cha (AKA 9) and get Int or Wis to 12
I still think energy attacks are not absolutely required, 3/4 BAB with Small size, high dex and elemental overflow should get you pretty close to the attack bonus of other martials.
But isn't the really big advantage of physical attacks that they can be combined with PA and once you include that you are really lagging behind the curve.
Also you are always lagging behind other martials as you can't enhance your Kinetic Blade.
With a kineticist, the big advantage is ignoring spell resistance/energy immunities at higher level.
If you keep failing to penetrate spell resistance or encounter a creature immune to your energy damage, switch to a physical attack. Earth has infusions that will allow you to bypass non-alignment DR.
Against a low AC opponent, physical blasts deal more damage than energy blasts.
Don't bother with Power Attack. It's not worth the cost.
Honestly, if you're starting with lighting blade as your element then that means you're hitting touch AC and you really don't need to worry at all about accuracy.
At starting, touch AC isn't a guarantied big boost as lower levels are full of low armor/natural AC-High Dex monsters. Also, 14 dex, 16-18 str and 18-20 con on a Halfling? How are you planning to start with those stats?
Honestly, if you're starting with lighting blade as your element then that means you're hitting touch AC and you really don't need to worry at all about accuracy.At starting, touch AC isn't a guarantied big boost as lower levels are full of low armor/natural AC-High Dex monsters. Also, 14 dex, 16-18 str and 18-20 con on a Halfling? How are you planning to start with those stats?
I forgot halfling was the race of choice, which puts a big damper on going STR. Any other race that that doesn't give a -STR or -CON would work.
I forgot halfling was the race of choice, which puts a big damper on going STR. Any other race that that doesn't give a -STR or -CON would work.Honestly, if you're starting with lighting blade as your element then that means you're hitting touch AC and you really don't need to worry at all about accuracy.At starting, touch AC isn't a guarantied big boost as lower levels are full of low armor/natural AC-High Dex monsters. Also, 14 dex, 16-18 str and 18-20 con on a Halfling? How are you planning to start with those stats?
Oh, I agree. You start with a Lizardfolk and the suggestion is spot on. ;)
IMO, it makes sense to strengthen the stat you get a bonus in, Str or Dex. If you happen to have neither, then it's up to personal preference.
@Texas Snyper: Power attacking two handed with a shield even sucks with a buckler btw.
Also I'm not convinced that power attacking with physical blasts is ever gonna be a good idea. Assuming 18 starting STR at level 9 our to hit is gonna be something like
+5 Stat
+1 Size boost
+1 WF
+6 BAB
+3 OA
+1 Competence
=17
Average monster AC at this level is 23. So you merely have a 75% chance to hit. make that 50% on iteratives. That's very unimpressive. And your per hit damage on a regular blast is gonna be comparable to a Two handers weapon damage. Going all in on STR (stat belt) will improve your chances to hit a bit but that also means less damage, less HPs --> less burn and also lower save DCs.
Unless I've missed something, two-handing will be difficult for a kinetic knight unless they abandon elemental defense. Bucklers won't work as an attuned shield - it's light or heavy shields only.
It really depends on how good your elemental defense is I guess. As a Geokineticist leaving home without your shield is folly.
If you are down with water or fire then it's no big deal...
Edit: I also ran some numbers on damage for energy blades and it looks okayish at level 9 and really bad before level 5 cause unlike a vanilla kineticist you can't spend your move action for +50 per cent damage.
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Unless I've missed something, two-handing will be difficult for a kinetic knight unless they abandon elemental defense. Bucklers won't work as an attuned shield - it's light or heavy shields only.
Upsetting Shield Style [Benefit: You can shield bash with a buckler as if it were a light shield, and you can use the buckler in conjunction with any feats or abilities that normally apply to light shields.] So with this, a buckler should qualify for attuned shield. Add Unhindering Shield and now you can two hand while keeping your AC from the buckler.
As a bonus, you can then take Shield Gauntlet Style, Weapon style master, and Martial Focus so you could attune your gauntlet... ;)
This doesn't work, but Shield Brace as a thing to do makes a whole lot more sense with a flexible shaped mass of elemental matter than it does with a naginata or a fauchard.
Unless I've missed something, two-handing will be difficult for a kinetic knight unless they abandon elemental defense. Bucklers won't work as an attuned shield - it's light or heavy shields only.Upsetting Shield Style [Benefit: You can shield bash with a buckler as if it were a light shield, and you can use the buckler in conjunction with any feats or abilities that normally apply to light shields.] So with this, a buckler should qualify for attuned shield. Add Unhindering Shield and now you can two hand while keeping your AC from the buckler.
As a bonus, you can then take Shield Gauntlet Style, Weapon style master, and Martial Focus so you could attune your gauntlet... ;)
Aye, that'd do it. ^_^
This doesn't work, but Shield Brace as a thing to do makes a whole lot more sense with a flexible shaped mass of elemental matter than it does with a naginata or a fauchard.
The only way it wouldn't work is if you could prove that Elemental Bastion [attuning a shield] isn't a ability that normally apply to light shields. I'm not sure how you can manage that.
Shield Brace [needing two-handed polearm or spears] clearly doesn't work with Elemental Blade [creates light or one handed with no fighter group]. I guess you could use a mundane weapon for it but then why play this archetype?
Aye, that'd do it. ^_^
LOL I don't think it's worth it though JUST to get power attack. About the only useful thing would be the free hand for things other than gather energy. Myself, I'd rather pick up a feat like Tribal Scars [gain 6 hit points, + 5' speed and +2].
PS: For the dex Kenetic Knight, a good option is to wear mithril medium armor and add an armored Kilt. Ex: Mithril Kikko + kilt = AC +6, Dex +5, Armor Check Penalty 0%, 12.5 lbs. In contrast a Mithral Tatami-do has an extra +1 AC, -3 ACP, 10 lbs, and 5000gp+. Even at base materials, hide + kilt is a super cheap 35gp for heavy armor!! If nothing else, the kilt opens up more options, though it's not PFS legal for those that care about that.