Interest check: Godly game(co-op, world building, storytelling)


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A few years ago, a Lords of Creation game was ran on these boards. It was pretty cool, even though I came hella late to it. Sadly, it died out for whatever reason.

I would like to run my own version, which is inspired by, but not bound to, the rules and system for LoC. I will also possibly be borrowing some ideas from the Ascension system.

I might even use the Godbound rules as well. Or perhaps only these rules. Unsure currently.

This is just an interest check, to see if people would want to play/run such a game. It will likely have a lot of personal storytelling(Ie, you write up posts detailing your actions), with cooperative aspects as necessary and story demands/permits.

Liberty's Edge

I would be very interested in this. Was thinking myself of maybe starting something like this.

Rewstyr


This sounds fascinating. Question: often, the worlds created in these games are vastly original and cool. Is it possible that I could use it in one of my home games?

Scarab Sages

I've been gravitating toward these more narrative games as of late, so ya. I'm very interested!


Huh. I've played this on the GitP forums and on the Roleplayer Guild forums. Also toyed around with Dawn of Worlds IRL a lot, and used it to create a campaign setting before. (My players ruined it with airships so I ruined them with ducks.)

There's a few deities I never REALLY got to enjoy using. I'll express interest, but only if we're sticking to the 1/week divine power update thing. My reasoning: I don't want to have to post huge, long posts more than 1/week. I go into storyteller mode with these sorts of things.

One thing I will note: I've seen Lords of Creation run with players getting more AP based on how many domains they have, and players grabbing as many domains as possible quickly turns the game... Well, weird. I think this should be expressly avoided so as to encourage more DOING early game and not punishing people for not spending their early AP on grabbing domains. I.E., you get the AP that you get each turn, and it's not modified by the number of domains you have.

I have seen some threads of this nature use domains as a 1 AP discount a given action related to your domains, but that you only get the discount 1/turn, so a broad set of domains mostly gives you more discount options.

Scarab Sages

I would be new to this system, but I can definitely wax storyteller if given the opportunity. I'm reading the Lords of Creation rules now and I'm intrigued. It seems like an extremely flexible system.


Yeah, it's based off the Dawn of Worlds system. Lords of Creation is pretty robust with what it can simulate.

I think it works best when the game master declares at the start what level of technology the game should reach or if the group decides if there's going to be a general "theme" to the game, but that's not really necessary. It's just a personal preference.

EDIT: In my first ever game of Lords of Creation, I played on the GitP forums and made a demigod character: a mortal that got his power by killing a would-be god and turning its heart into the blade of his spear. He made all the REAL deities in the thread feel really awkward around him because of that. It was cool. (And it inspired me to start writing a book, too.)


At this point, I'm not entirely sure how much from LoC I'll be using, as there were certain things I liked, and some I did not.

One aspect I had issue with, and could perhaps be part of why these games tend to die out, is the reliance on real world time for gaining power and other elements of the game

While I understand the concept, I feel as though it can discourage players should something arise in their real lives that keeps them away from the game for few weeks or months.

I'm toying around with an idea, borrowed in part from Forgotten Realms, that will utilize an accomplishment/faith based system for gaining power and ranking up. As I just decided to ask about interest in this game on Sun(yea, two days ago, lol), this is all very much in the super early stages.

I also started reading over the Godbound rules, and while I haven't gotten too far, there seems to be some aspects I like.

Scarab Sages

Ok. No worries. I already have ideas brewing in my head and one of them, an arbitrator of the gods and judge of the dead type, is already starting to win out. I'll try not to think in game terms pending you deciding which nuts and bolts you prefer. :)


Another thing to decide on is how detailed do we want our gods stats to be?

LoC has more or less a general ruleset regarding stats, which is perfectly fine(though were I to use them, I might alter the exact numbers). However, I also realize that more statistically fleshed out deities might appeal to more people, and could, in the long run, be the better decision.


I was in a Dawn of Worlds game that died a long while ago too. Honestly felt like I was the only God even doing anything after a little while. I'd be up for giving Sheher here a better godly life.

I'd suggest maybe having a very flexible turn system to keep the game going? If people stop posting then we can say the Gods they're controlling stopped influencing the world for whatever reason for a little while and then new gods arose.

Scarab Sages

I can see an argument for both. Less detail demands more from the players and requires an atmosphere of communication and cooperation even if you're playing adversaries. It also could lessen the ability for advancement or reward in the mechanical sense. The story has to be the reward.

On the other hand, if you get hyper detailed you can end up tripping over mechanics in the story and your diety ends up feeling limited.

It's a delicate balance, but I'm willing to work it out.


Yea, I want to come up with a logical system to support players dropping(or being unable to play/post for awhile), but potentially coming back later.

Some sort of torpor like concept, where if you don't post after x time, your god becomes inactive, but like you still accrue a lesser amount of divine power, should you eventually come back.

Which sort of ties in to my desire to not be so reliant on real world time.


There should be some sort of end point in mind too. Some era in which the gods withdraw from active involvement in the world.

Scarab Sages

Or the GM creates Rovagug and starts a war in heaven that eventually consumes us all. :)


sounds interesting


Thoughts on turns and power gain:

1. Real world time makes sense to some degree, as you need a rate at which you generate power. If you don't depend on real world time on some level, what are you depending on to determine how much power a player gets? Frequency of posts? Ergo, while you may not want to have power gain determined SOLELY by time progression IRL, you will have to factor it in.

Given that, you should probably first pick as a GM what set amount of time you want a "turn" to last. For most games, this is a week, but you don't have to stick with that norm.

2. After you've chosen how long you want a turn to last, consider other means of getting power. Perhaps a set amount of worship in the world gets you more power?

If you choose to make this based on population numbers, you'll run into issues of "How quickly should races breed?" and "Do faster breeding races provide more worship thanks to having more people?"

What about cities? Would a number of cities you have influence in give you power? Influence could mean having factions affiliated with you inside the city (such as organizations you made or took control of).

One thing I would suggest, whatever you choose to do in this regard, is make it so players can respond to more powerful players by attacking their power base. If you can stop another player from generating power points - but leave it so they have a minimum of power they can gain still - then you can encourage conflict between players over power itself. And the more conflict is present, the more gods will form factions of their own...

3. As for resource generation when a player is gone for <X> amount of time, why not stunt their base power gain by 50%, but let them accrue points from their worshipers / cities / whatever as per normal? Ergo, you're rewarded for playing because if you have to disappear you gain power for the crap you made.


A lot of what you're suggesting Inlaa is in line with what I am thinking. I still have a long way to go before I get things truly rolling on this game, but I have plenty of ideas and resources to draw from.

Scarab Sages

Those are interesting suggestions. They would tend to penalize certain kinds of gods, however. A god of secrets is going to be much less popular with the masses than a god of "fertility" by default.

Then again, perhaps that is precisely the point. A god of secrets is never shown as the foremost diety of a pantheon to my knowledge, but using secrets to gain the upper hand in spite of the apparent power gap is totally a thing.

Scarab Sages

Another thought, in the ancient Mesopotamian and Palestine regions (and maybe further places in not aware of) battles on the ground were seen as reflections of battles in the heavens. The winner, therefore, was not who had the best army, it was who's god won. We could use that.
We could determine some amount of the gods' stats themselves from the people that worship. It may be that we can get our detail from our people and our broad brush creative licence from the gods.

Maybe. That was very of the cuff as I prep for work.


I think all the gods should have roughly the same level of power point generation. If a god doesn't use their power by the end of the turn time then they lose all or the majority of their points.

I think we really should avoid PVP. Or if we do have it then there should be rules about how it's done. In my experience though PvP just causes problems both in game and out of game.

Scarab Sages

True. Maybe a decree among the gods that all disputes must be settled via proxy wars or something.


I have a possible idea, which very likely could end up being an entirely different game I run, but as it also has the players as gods, I'm going to check in here first:

Would people be interested in playing as minor godlings, in a Golarion that has been suffered several catastrophes and is vastly altered(Worldwound expanding, Rovagug being partially released, the Eye going out of control, etc)?

The overall general concept would remain, but instead of building a brand new universe/cosmology, we would be working to rebuild an already existing world.

As I said, I might just try to run this as a fully separate game, but I wanted to bring it up here first, and get people's opinions/feedback.

Sovereign Court

Have you thought about using Lords of Creation to build a world and then running a pathfinder game based in the world you've created?


This sounds really cool but possibly learning three new systems is disheartening. Are they simple to grasp?

Scarab Sages

That would define a lot for us. How closely would we be held to cannon dieties? Depending on how much has changed in the divine landscape that idea could be limiting or free form.

Perhaps all these catastrophes are due to some gods dying at the hands of Rovagug or something, opening the way for new ones to emerge? Or something? Gods is one thing Pathfinder has no lack of.


That could be really interesting, although my preferred form for games like these is making a world whole-cloth, and then playing/DMing in those worlds.

I've actually run a few games like that, and introduced a mechanic called "plots and secrets," which players, while in the building phase, pass me notes and secret uses of their AP, in return for seeing some seeds that they've sown pop up to surprise other players in the campaign. But that's just a thought.


Choon:

If I decide to go in that direction, using a vastly altered Golarion as base, then there will definitely be some deities(good and evil) who are dead, have left, gone missing, etc.


Both ideas are pretty compelling. But they are completely different :).

Scarab Sages

Indeed, both would be interesting. I think I would prefer creating from scratch, but both would be fun.

You could also have us create a shared universe cooperatively, like you initially suggested, then transition pretty quickly from the gods of creation to the minor good and have us pay the golarion idea in the universe we created. Kinda the same idea as was suggested above, but never leaving the divine scope.


I'm intrigued, but I'd wonder how you limit godly power enough to make the game fun.

The closest I ever payed was an avatar game. We were all super powered PCs who were Avatars of whatever god.


Right now, I'm looking over the Godbound rules, which I probably borrow from, regardless of which game is run.


Alright, I'm thinking Pralto the Mostly Harmless, God of Mild Irritation and Benign Rivalry.

To use some of the examples, if you laid down a blessing of super healing herbs, Pralto would curse them to give you cat ears.

If you created an order of scholarly wizards, Pralto would tweak the laws of magic such that the nature of a cantrip changed once a week so all the wizards had to spend fifteen minutes figuring out how that cantrip now works. Not enough to seriously hamper their studies, but enough to irritate.

If you created an inhospitable desert none could live in, Pralto would create some pathetic little creature that could live in it, but not support any predators or pose any threat.


I'm personally leaning toward either a deity of Strife (not an evil deity, just a deity that sees conflict as a means of growth and realizing one's potential), a deity of earth and secrets (potentially a traveler from another world?), or a good-aligned undead / underworld deity. Yes, that's a thing.


I'm leaning toward a deity of invention, innovation, passion, and magic. A lot of the magic deities are either completely aloof or insane, and I want to break that mold.

Scarab Sages

My idea is a god of cycles, fate, and judgement. He holds birth and death in his hands. By day his flaming spear arcs across the sky as he wanders the land blessing all life. By night he sits enthroned in the Underworld as his race of immortal servants who's wings reflect the starry sky pass judgement on the lives of mortals. His court is said to put to rest all disputes.
He is called Stiller of Strifes, Lord of Sunrise, Father of Justice, Warden of Life, Shepherd of the Dead. Actual name pending.


I am definitely interested in this style of game. Though having run dawn of worlds here in the past, the ability for players to post without having to wait for others to take their turn is important.

Scarab Sages

As a note, I wood totally work with Inlaa if he also created an undead/underworld diety.


Choon wrote:
As a note, I wood totally work with Inlaa if he also created an undead/underworld diety.

That could be really fun, actually. Your deity could decide the fate of what happens to mortals, and mine could be the caretaker of souls.

I imagine my deity as being a sort of guardian of the underworld that offers souls that are just "barely" damned to the bad parts of the afterlife a chance to redeem themselves by turning into these undead questing knights (I'd probably call them Revenants), or as ghosts that try to make up for what they did wrong in life, etc. Basically, a "You have one chance to redeem yourself, and if you fail you go straight to HEEEELL."

I don't imagine this deity does anything with the souls of the dead after they've reached the afterlife. She just watches over them and makes sure they're each staying in their respective corners of the plane of death.

...I guess that basically makes her Cerebrus, except she's got minions. Huh.


I am quite interested

Jo'Vassa (and his feminine aspect La'Vassa) is a CG god/goddess of magic, fire, hedonism snakes and monsters
he preaches that all should eat drink and be merry. all are welcome to join in the worship of the burning one, the furred mistress, the holy succubi

Favored form is that of a half-succubi half Gnoll covered in purple silks and followed by a ball of rainbow fire.

favored weapon(s): magic, fists (grappling) and pistol/sword cane

refers to him/herself in the third person


Perhaps after Magicians and Legion I will do a short write up of the altered Golarion I have in mind.


So, you're currently grappling with:

Post-Shake Up Altered Golarion vs Fresh World

Lords of Creation, but do we want to borrow from Ascension and Godbound or use those systems instead

These are important questions.

I feel my take is Fresh World. Much like Pathfinder's rules, Pathfinder's world has a LOT of bloat. There's pretty much no extraplanar realm in which the book that describes it can lay out a clear line of events there's usually "There was this inciting incident, then uncountable aeons of really cool stuff that we can't tell you about because it's whooo mystery or just too long, and here's the current state."

And there are so many gods/godlikes that deal with secrets, arcane lore, the end of days, or fate manipulation or what have you. The Eldest alone from the First world have not one, but four to six depending on how you stretch it.

I feel that in order to reduce the bloat and give the players appropriate free reign without old gods looking over their shoulder, you'd have to do so much damage to Golarion and Golarion's cosmology that you might as well start fresh.


Browman wrote:
I am definitely interested in this style of game. Though having run dawn of worlds here in the past, the ability for players to post without having to wait for others to take their turn is important.

Hey Browman. I really enjoyed that game while it was still going.

Scarab Sages

I hope you decide soon, Monkeygod. I have an entire underworld brewing in my head just waiting for collaborative feedback. :P


Funny you should say that Illia, about Golarion and bloat. I actually found something that *might* address all of that.

I have a ton of research and reading to do, so we'll see where it all goes.

It's entirely possible I end up running both a Lords of Creation brand new world game and a heavily altered Golarion game.


Sheher wrote:
Browman wrote:
I am definitely interested in this style of game. Though having run dawn of worlds here in the past, the ability for players to post without having to wait for others to take their turn is important.
Hey Browman. I really enjoyed that game while it was still going.

It was, but the having to wait for each person to post in order caused a lot of problems and changed how I handle any structured time in all play by post games I have run since.


If you do go with altered Golarion, I do like the option that gives me of playing Illia-, Goddess of Invulnerability, Carnage, Recklessness, and Glitter.


Well, actually Illia, you can't, not exactly.

If I run the Golarion, I'm going to include Escarra as a city, possibly one that has been raised from the depths of the Darklands and is now on Golarion proper. Illia, Dris, and the rest of the party will be NPCs.


Okay, I'm dotting in as interested, with my good ol' God of Atheism.

Scarab Sages

Should we be writing up gods at this point? Did I miss a memo? If yes then I'll jump on it. :)

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