Flame blade spell and Magi


Rules Questions


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I have an intricate rules question. I'm running a magus who uses scrolls of flame blade to give him spell strikes that hit on touch. I have several questions integral to this build

1). Do feats that apply to scimitars apply to Flame Blade. The spell text says "You wield this blade-like beam as if it were a scimitar," so would feats like weapon focus, dervish dance, or improved critical apply?

2). Flame Blade forbids adding strength modifiers to damage, but what about the dexterity damage added to scimitars with Dervish Dance?

3). Flame Blade is treated as a scimitar (a one handed melee weapon), so would a magus be able to use Spell Combat while wielding a flame blade?

4). Flame Blade is treated as a scimitar (a one handed melee weapon), so would a magus be able to channel the Spell Strike class feature while using a Flame Blade?

4). Flame Blade is treated as a scimitar (a one handed melee weapon), so would a magus be able to use his arcane pool to enhance his flame blade?

Source Text:

Flame Blade: pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/spells/flameBlade.html

Dervish Dance: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat/

Magus (spell combat, spell strike):

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/


Weapon focus scimitar would apply.

Dervish dance wouldn't, but because flame blade doesn't do strength damage. Improved critical should also apply.

Dex to damage abilities use the verbage of replacing strength to damage, but if you don't get strength to damage you can't replace it with dex.

You should be able to use flame blade with spell combat and spell strike. The only concern I had was whether or not it was treated as a held spell, but it is not.

As for using arcane pool to enhance it, no I don't think that possible but this is the one I'm least sure of.


I agree with everythng Claxon said.

Actually I'm vaguely leaning toward letting you enhance it with your arcane pool - The Flame Blade is a weapon you're wielding and I can't see anything that specifically prohibits this. It's also not particularly overpowered, so why not. Not sure on this, but my I'd probably let a player get away with it.

I will say that I'm pretty sure they didn't intend you to be able to enhance it. The spell isn't on the Magus list (or the Wizard list for Spell-Blending). If they'd wanted you to use this they would have given this spell to the Magus when they made the class.

As far as I can tell it's enough of a corner case that it's not precisely covered by the rules, so do as you see fit. Paizo's stance will probably be "no" but I say "why not?" (and if there's a good reason why not then I'll change it to a "no").

1, 3 & 4 (the first "4") should all be fine though.


Weapon-like spells, such as flame blade, count as weapons for the purposes of spells and effects. I don't see how Arcane Bond wouldn't be considered an effect, so it should work.


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Well, the Magic Warrior magus archetype (from Inner Sea Intrigue) gets extra spells from the Druid list as opposed to the Wizard list, so this is a possible scenario....

I'm not sure if it would count as a magic weapon, though. That would have something of an effect on using your arcane pool, but, let's be real. It absolutely should work, for Rule of Cool if nothing else. There's something awesome about delivering a shocking grasp through a +1 icy burst flame blade, and being awesome is what this game is all about.


The wording of Arcane Pool says "These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon enhancement to a maximum of +5. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with themselves."

If we operate under the assumption that Flame Blade is indeed treated as a one handed melee weapon, i think arcane pool would be applicable, but i'm biased because it's my build


faq
In the same vein as abilities like Arcane Strike that affect a character’s weapons, abilities that say “with a weapon,” “with a melee weapon,” and “with a ranged weapon” almost never work with special abilities because such wording is almost always used as shorthand for “manufactured weapon,” “manufactured melee weapon,” and “manufactured ranged weapon.” The exception is abilities that deal damage when a creature touches or hits you in melee (for instance, the occultis’s energy ward focus power), which should also deal damage when a creature makes a melee touch attack against you but rarely call them out directly.

arcane bond is like arcane strike and doesn't work with flame blade.


Hmmm...this actually makes me question whether or not Spellstrike or Spell Combat still work.

I think Spell Combat would be fine...but if Arcane bond doesn't work I think Spell Strike also wouldn't work.

It really isn't very clear if it should or shouldn't work.


for every clarification there is a common use case that comes into question without being clear.


So do weapon-like spells count as weapons or don't they?

If every instance of "weapon" (except for the instance used in the rays and weapon-like spells FAQ, evidently) is shorthand for "manufactured weapon," what's the point?

What's the point of counting as "a weapon" for the purposes of spells and abilities that affect weapons if spells and abilities that affect weapons only actually affect "manufactured weapons?"

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