I get that if I cast Feeblemind on an enemy who fails his save his INT/CHA scores drop to 1, disregarding to the previous bonuses/penalties to those scores he might have.
Now say that he is wearing a headband of intellect and I remove it while he's under Feeblemind's effect. Will the INT score still be 1 or would it drop to 0?
Now let's do the opposite. I give a headband of intellect to someone under the effects of Feeblemind. Will his INT score raise above 1 or remain still 1?
I know it's a silly question, but I need to know just for curiosity.
Oh, look what I found digging here! It's my own thread!
I don't think taking the headband off would drop the stat lower since I'd argue it's not effecting them anymore
Adding on to a creature with 1 int would boost it in my opinion.
My take is that nothing aside an effect who could lower the stats below 1 would make it drop to zero. Allowing to lower the stat just by taking off an item sounds wrong to me. But of course it's just my opinion, that's why I asked.
I'd aggree with your analysis, but still I feel it's a tricky issue.
Why does the score drop to 1 disregarding previous bonus/penalties? Why doesn't the net score drop to 1 + any bonuses/penalties? (Minimum 1)
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Why does the score drop to 1 disregarding previous bonus/penalties? Why doesn't the net score drop to 1 + any bonuses/penalties? (Minimum 1)
Because the spell says the have int/cha of 1.
As to whether or not the int/cha increases...does it matter much?
Target creature’s Intelligence and Charisma scores each drop to 1. The affected creature is unable to use Intelligence– or Charisma-based skills, cast spells, understand language, or communicate coherently. Still, it knows who its friends are and can follow them and even protect them. The subject remains in this state until a heal, limited wish, miracle, or wish spell is used to cancel the effect of the feeblemind. A creature that can cast arcane spells, such as a sorcerer or a wizard, takes a -4 penalty on its saving throw.
As long as you are under the spell you can't make int or charisma base skill checks, cast spells, understand language, or communicate with other people. And that's regardless of your int or charisma levels.
Even if they can be increased by putting on a headband after the fact, you still have these restrictions, so I can't see it mattering very much.
I also view it that regardless of anything else this is a curse that effectively sets your int/cha at 1 and nothing changes it until you remove it. You take of your existing headband while under the effect, it doesn't drop. You put on a headband, doesn't increase. You level up and put an ability score increase into it, current int/cha doesn't change. Its still 1. The spell just permanently sets your int/cha while it affects you.
What I like of your take on it, Claxon, is that it would make it a much more simple effect, not having to keep track of score increments or penalties.
And probably it's meant to work like you say. I like it because it makes the mechanics simple and easy. The score is 1 and that's it.
Thanks!
I would never have considered any interpretation other than Claxon's. While you are under the effect of Feeblemind , you are under the effect of the spell and nothing will change your stat until it wears off.
I still think that it could be lowered to zero by, let's say a poison. I don't think it is the idea of the spell to prevent 2 scores from being dropped to zero.
Feeblemind an animal which has already INT/CHA 1 and it becomes immune to ability damage on that scores? Doesn't sound right. It's far from being OP or even useful but it doesn't seem it should work like that.
Ability damage doesn't subtract from your attribute; it applies penalties.
If I have 2 Int damage, and then my Int drops to 1, I am now unconscious because the damage exceeds my attribute.
How Feeblemind would interact with ability drain is a bit harder to figure out...
I still think that it could be lowered to zero by, let's say a poison. I don't think it is the idea of the spell to prevent 2 scores from being dropped to zero.
Feeblemind an animal which has already INT/CHA 1 and it becomes immune to ability damage on that scores? Doesn't sound right. It's far from being OP or even useful but it doesn't seem it should work like that.
There's no rules text to support this, but there's an easy enough fix; always apply the spell last.
Take a creature with Int 10, then apply feeblemind. Their Int is now reduced to 1. Easy.
Take that same creature and apply 2 points of Int damage. Now they're Int 8. Then apply feeblemind. Their Int is now reduced to 1. Easy.
Take that same creature and apply 10 points of Int damage. Now they're Int 0. Then apply feeblemind. Their Int is now 0, because you can't "reduce" 0 to 1.
Sounds like fair ruling.
Take that same creature and apply 2 points of Int damage. Now they're Int 8.
With Int Drain, they'd be Int 8. With Int damage, they're Int 10 with 2 points of Int damage.