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8-14 To Seal The Shadow GM Thread


GM Discussion

101 to 117 of 117 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Grand Lodge *** Venture-Lieutenant, California—Sacramento aka FLite

Stephen Wight wrote:

The best thing I did for this was to add an encounter at the beginning. (I know, but...just read.) This module is short, so doing so was no big deal.

...

Is adding an "encounter" legal? Strictly speaking, no. But does this dry run carry any of the risks that a normal encounter carries (death, conditions, consumption of resources)? No. So I think it's a good practice, and I suggest it.

Easy work around: Run the encounter before the briefing. Now it is not actually *part* of the scenario, it is just a fun bit of warm up before the scenario starts.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—Knoxville aka tchrman35

Jared Thaler wrote:
Stephen Wight wrote:

The best thing I did for this was to add an encounter at the beginning. (I know, but...just read.) This module is short, so doing so was no big deal.

...

Is adding an "encounter" legal? Strictly speaking, no. But does this dry run carry any of the risks that a normal encounter carries (death, conditions, consumption of resources)? No. So I think it's a good practice, and I suggest it.

Easy work around: Run the encounter before the briefing. Now it is not actually *part* of the scenario, it is just a fun bit of warm up before the scenario starts.

Lol actually, that's exactly what I did. The briefing takes place in Tian Xia if I'm remembering my Golarion geography correctly. We had the "warm up", as you call it, before the characters left.

**** Venture-Agent

I don't know if anyone else has created a playing aid for the Verbal Duel, but after I GMed it I wished I had. The players spent most of their time going through the 10 tactics and figuring out what skills they could use, so the first items is a table they can use. Since the opponents use Knowledge (Arcana) for Logic, I have the PCs use it too.

It's a Word doc uploaded to Google Docs, so you can copy and edit it.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B73TEH1lqCGzbzluSWNYOE01YjQ

Or if you just want a PDF to print
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B73TEH1lqCGzVy1hMFNhOVJjYmM

Sovereign Court *****

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber

You should visit pfsprep.com. It's a really helpful site where people put handouts and the like up.

**** Venture-Agent

Will do Iammars. Thanks for the tip. I'd heard of that site but forgotten about it.

Grand Lodge ** Venture-Agent, Maryland—Hagerstown aka Z...D...

Other than the obvious verbal duel fiasco. The scenario was pretty good and fun. I am not going to beat a dead horse on the encounter.

The worksheets on the PFS prep site made the changes to the skills slightly less painful. So thank you to whoever set it up.

I had a 2 fighters, 2 barbarians and a swashbuckler. They won the duel, but knocked out the brawlers so they walked away with both prestige.

Came across something, one of the fighters could not contribute to the debate since he did not have a rank in any of the associated skills for the duel.

Did I do the right thing excluding him from the duel? Did I not read something I should have?

**

Zachary Davis wrote:
Came across something, one of the fighters could not contribute to the debate since he did not have a rank in any of the associated skills for the duel.

I only excluded the skills that are trained only -- such as knowledges. I see no reason to prevent someone from using bluff, diplomacy, sense motive and other such skills untrained in a verbal duel.

Sovereign Court *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber

Is there a picture for Old Pak anywhere? And if not, can we get one? That would be great since he's not the VC for 3 missions IIRC and I would like to show a face card or something for him each time he shows up now. (Helps cement him as a recurring quest-giver in PCs minds.)

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Iceland

Plus he´s also one of the best new npc´s. I hope to see more briefings from him.

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Agent, Canada—Ontario—Toronto aka pauljathome

So finally played this tonight. I actually had a fairly good time DESPITE the absurd mechanics but the debate mechanics were at least as bad as I thought they'd be. And given how awful I thought they'd be that is pretty damn bad :-(.

I'd prepared to run this before so I understood the mechanics going in so it was fairly simple to game the rules so at to minimize our rolls. But the whole thing was a completely absurd exercise in gaming rules to achieve a desired outcome DESPITE the rules trying to force us to succeed.

Note to players : Just grab the skill where you have 1 rank (ideally in a non class skill) and ALWAYS use that regardless of anything. Totally silly, very effective.

As others have pointed out, there isn't enough information to actually role play much of this, people didn't really feel like it after having spent some time figuring out how to game the rules. It was a mostly silly exercise in rolling dice and spouting silly nonsense.

As long as the players try to lose and don't have too many bards in the group (you certainly wouldn't want to bring social characters to a social scenario, would you?) they'll almost certainly lose. The whole time spent is almost certainly a total waste of time.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—Knoxville aka tchrman35

Paul Jackson wrote:
Note to players : Just grab the skill where you have 1 rank (ideally in a non class skill) and ALWAYS use that regardless of anything. Totally silly, very effective.

There are specific rules to prevent that, actually. I don't have them here in front of me, but you have to lose in good faith.

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Agent, Canada—Ontario—Toronto aka pauljathome

Stephen Wight wrote:
Paul Jackson wrote:
Note to players : Just grab the skill where you have 1 rank (ideally in a non class skill) and ALWAYS use that regardless of anything. Totally silly, very effective.
There are specific rules to prevent that, actually. I don't have them here in front of me, but you have to lose in good faith.

Well, there are contradictory rules that may be intended to stop it.

You must apply your best skill bonus to a tactic. But, you can only apply one skill bonus to any one tactic. These rules directly contradict each other. So, I assume that you can use your bluff (say) on one tactic and then "have" to use your knowledge Nobles on another tactic.

And as far as I can see there is no prohibition on what tactic one chooses to use.

Scarab Sages **

The rules for the event itself, not the verbal rules but the ones under the scenes heading in the scenario, state that the Players are expected to compete in good faith and still lose. This effects the tallies for the final battle and ticks for prestige gain.

There was a list of 3 or 4 things they had to do on top of the normal duel rules or they are considered to have failed the event. One was they must always use their skill with the highest bonus, another was hey couldn't just surrender immediately on the first volley, etc.

So if they use a tactic with bluff and sleight of hand and their bluff is higher, they need to use it, and that's the only skill they can use on that tactic once it's assigned. It's been a while since I ran this, but I think it locks out the skill for use with other tactics as well. So they've assigned bluff, if they later try to use a tactic that requires knowledge(nobility) or bluff then KN is their highest available skill since bluff is taken and they use that instead.

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Agent, Canada—Ontario—Toronto aka pauljathome

Sir Godfrey wrote:


So if they use a tactic with bluff and sleight of hand and their bluff is higher,

To repeat myself (since you obviously didn't read my previous post) the rules are completely contradictory.

You have to use your best skill for each tactic. You can only use one skill once and NOT for multiple tactics.

Sovereign Court *** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

1 person marked this as a favorite.

It just drops the players in a Knapsack Problem.

Friends don't force friends to deal with NP-Hard problem in a gaming session.

Scarab Sages **

I read your post, my point was (Since you apparently didn't read my whole post, or maybe the end wasn't clear) the way I read it is once a skill is locked in then for other tactics it effectively doesn't exist. So you use the highest of the other options available on that tactic.

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Agent, Canada—Ontario—Toronto aka pauljathome

Sir Godfrey wrote:
I read your post, my point was (Since you apparently didn't read my whole post, or maybe the end wasn't clear) the way I read it is once a skill is locked in then for other tactics it effectively doesn't exist. So you use the highest of the other options available on that tactic.

My apologies, I'd misunderstood you.

Yes, that is also my best guess as to how to resolve the contradiction.

Which leads to a fairly easy path to come up with an optimally bad tactic :-).

Note - I feel absolutely no guilt in gaming the system. I feel that Paizo has put me in the absurd position of HAVING to game the system if I brought a character who is actually competent to the table.

Ignoring rules for a moment, I think it is completely silly that a Cha 7 fighter makes worse arguments than a skilled debater who is deliberately trying to lose. The latter should be able to come up with truly horrendous arguments if they so wish.

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