MychaelT |
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I was messing around with a new magic user and came around to a wizard or arcanist that could trip.
First I started with Toppling Spell metamagic even though only a handful of spells really work with it.
You end up with
- Magic Missile
- Twilight Dagger
- Mage's Sword
and a few of the force hand spells
For our purposes I'm going to stick with Magic Missile.
Now Toppling Spell uses caster level plus casting stat for your trip score, so maxing both will be necessary.
(Obviously you're already going to be keeping your intelligence maxed so we're going to focus on CL)
Traits
- Outlander (Lore Seeker: +1 Caster level or DC to 3 spells, obviously MM gets one pick, but you get to choose your 2 other favorite spells to fill it out. Pick a couple Evocation spells to take advantage of the fact you're getting Spell Focus and Mage's Tattoo).
Feats
- Toppling Spell
- Spell Focus: Evocation (Feat Tax, but useful beyond this focus)
- Spell Specialization: Magic Missile
- Mage's Tattoo: Evocation (Useful beyond this focus)
Ok, stealing some info from over at GitP on Tripping out of this thread:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?126153-Pathfinder-Combat-Mane uvers-an-analysis
Dedicated Tripper (invests 5 feats - combat expertise, 2x trip feats, 2x weapon focus. This is 1/4 of a fighter's feats.)
Level | CMB | vs. Fighter | vs. Rogue | vs. Wizard | vs. Dragon
1st | +8 | vs. 17 (55%) | vs. 16 (60%) | vs. 10 (90%) | n/a
5th | +14 | vs. 23 (55%) | vs. 20 (70%) | vs. 15 (95%) | vs. 28 (30%)
6th | +17 | vs. 24 (65%) | vs. 21 (80%) | vs. 16 (95%) | vs. 29 (40%)
10th | +26 | vs. 31 (75%) | vs. 29 (85%) | vs. 22 (95%) | vs. 40 (30%)
15th | +35 | vs. 40 (75%) | vs. 38 (85%) | vs. 26 (95%) | vs. 49 (30%)
20th | +45 | vs. 51 (70%) | vs. 47 (90%) | vs. 33 (95%) | vs. 58 (35%)
Casual Tripper (invests 2 feats - combat expertise and improved trip)
Level | CMB | vs. Fighter | vs. Rogue | vs. Wizard | vs. Dragon
1st | +5 | vs. 17 (40%) | vs. 16 (45%) | vs. 10 (75%) | n/a
5th | +12 | vs. 23 (45%) | vs. 20 (60%) | vs. 15 (85%) | vs. 28 (20%)
6th | +13 | vs. 24 (45%) | vs. 21 (60%) | vs. 16 (85%) | vs. 29 (20%)
10th | +20 | vs. 31 (45%) | vs. 29 (55%) | vs. 22 (90%) | vs. 40 (5%)
15th | +28 | vs. 40 (40%) | vs. 38 (50%) | vs. 26 (95%) | vs. 49 (5%)
20th | +36 | vs. 51 (25%) | vs. 47 (45%) | vs. 33 (95%) | vs. 58 (5%)
Wizard Tripper (invests 4 feats - see above)
Level | CMB | # trips | vs. Fighter | vs. Rogue | vs. Wizard | vs. Dragon
1st | +6 | 1 trips | vs. 17 (50%) | vs. 16 (55%) | vs. 10 (85%) | n/a
5th | +14 | 4 trips | vs. 23 (97%) | vs. 20 (99%) | vs. 15 (99%) | vs. 28 (82%)
6th | +15 | 5 trips | vs. 24 (99%) | vs. 21 (99%) | vs. 16 (99%) | vs. 29 (88%)
10th | +21 | 5 trips | vs. 31 (97%) | vs. 29 (99%) | vs. 22 (99%) | vs. 40 (41%)
15th | +27 | 5 trips | vs. 40 (92%) | vs. 38 (97%) | vs. 26 (99%) | vs. 49 (23%)
20th | +33 | 5 trips | vs. 51 (55%) | vs. 47 (88%) | vs. 33 (99%) | vs. 58 (23%)
Arcanist Tripper (invests 4 feats - see above)
Level | CMB | # trips | vs. Fighter | vs. Rogue | vs. Wizard | vs. Dragon
1st | +8 | 2 trips | vs. 17 (84%) | vs. 16 (88%) | vs. 10 (99%) | n/a
5th | +16 | 5 trips | vs. 23 (99%) | vs. 20 (99%) | vs. 15 (99%) | vs. 28 (95%)
6th | +17 | 5 trips | vs. 24 (99%) | vs. 21 (99%) | vs. 16 (99%) | vs. 29 (95%)
10th | +23 | 5 trips | vs. 31 (99%) | vs. 29 (99%) | vs. 22 (99%) | vs. 40 (67%)
15th | +29 | 5 trips | vs. 40 (97%) | vs. 38 (99%) | vs. 26 (99%) | vs. 49 (23%)
20th | +35 | 5 trips | vs. 51 (76%) | vs. 47 (95%) | vs. 33 (99%) | vs. 58 (23%)
*These numbers only take into account raw CL with feats and abilities plus an Int+6 item at higher levels. No other equipment is used.
Both the Wizard and the Arcanist keep up with the Casual Tripper stats through 20th level and the Dedicated tripper through the mid levels if using just one missile per target. And they both get multiple missiles early on.
Now if you're good spending a 2nd level spell on one target (or 1st level if you pick up Magical Lineage for Magic Missile), you'll keep up with the Dedicated Tripper all the way to 20th. Also, note that all attempts will be at full BAB.
Now if you want to really go crazy you could even add the Combat Expertise/Imp. Trip/ Gr. Trip feats and give all of your big dumb fighters AoO's on the ones that fall.
And if your GM is nice enough to let Intensified Spell count for MM, those 2 extra missiles jump up your odds a ton or lets you do more splitting of your trips all for a 3rd (or 2nd) level spell.
2 of the 4 feats needed have broad application and 1 has at least a little more application outside of this build. Ok rip it apart and let me know what you think, is it worth the investment?
MychaelT |
True, so you do get more uses out of Toppling Spell. That said the big benefit from Magic Missile is the auto-hit triggers the trip and the rapid increase in missiles ramps up your effectiveness more quickly.
But I hadn't seen Battering Blast.
I do like that you can get the Weapon Focus: ray benefit on Admonishing Ray which carries over to the trip attempt.
Forcy |
Magic Missile is the way!
Is not a matter of damage ... it always hit and give you the free trip. And you can cast many of them!
Against NPC is very good... but against monsters is hard... so i don't think it worth to waste too many feat...
Magical lineage + toppling spells is enough to stop almost every fight against NP (without magic shield) in one round, with jus a level 1 spell!