| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I digged the boards and went as far as the rules for "recovery rolls" that didnt make through the playtest, but couldn't find an answer for this.
Effects that call for a saving throw at the end of your turn will explicitly say so, such as Glitterdust, Mental Block or Coward's Lament. Those that are at the start of your turn will also say so, such as Greater Command, Web Cloud or Death Knell Aura.
Or will simply say exactly when those creatures get to make a save, such as Entangle saying they must save at the end of the caster's turn.
Other spells, like Hold Person, have a specific mechanic in place (for Hold Person, a full-round action) so the creature can make this save to end the effect.
But for Turn Undead against intelligent undead, it simply says "each round". So is this saving throw made a the start of their turn, or at the end of their turn. Or the target chooses when to make this save?
Calling upon higher powers, you cause undead to flee from the might of your unleashed divine energy.
Prerequisites: Channel positive energy class feature.
Benefit: You can, as a standard action, use one of your uses of channel positive energy to cause all undead within 30 feet of you to flee, as if panicked. Undead receive a Will save to negate the effect. The DC for this Will save is equal to 10 + 1/2 your cleric level + your Charisma modifier. Undead that fail their save flee for 1 minute. Intelligent undead receive a new saving throw each round to end the effect. If you use channel energy in this way, it has no other effect (it does not heal or harm nearby creatures).
By the definition of a "Round", that means 6 seconds of real time.
Combat is measured in rounds. During an individual round, all creatures have a chance to take a turn to act, in order of initiative. A round represents 6 seconds in the game world.
So if we rule that it's at the start of a creature's turn, then it may be anywhere between 0 and 5,99~ seconds, depending on their initiative order.
If we rule it's at the end of a creature's turn, then it could be a little closer to 6 seconds.
If we rule that it's at the end of the round, after 6 seconds have past, then the ability's text should say "after each round".
|
Looks to me like the undead get a new save on the turn of the one who turned them; that's when exactly one round has passed.
When the rules refer to a "full round", they usually mean a span of time from a particular initiative count in one round to the same initiative count in the next round. Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on.
^ that.
Recurring saves happen on the initiative count of the caster, not the target.
@Ascalaphus
I understand your point, but from a RAW reading, that rule simply means that an unintelligent undead will be panicked for 10 rounds, ending at the end of the turn of the cleric who turned him. But does not address when an intelligent undead makes their save.
@Doomed Hero
That's how most will rule it, but im trying to find something written about it.
|
Doomed Hero has the right of it. Unless the description of the effect says otherwise.
Take for example Glitterdust, where it actually says "Each round at the end of their turn blinded creatures may attempt new saving throws to end the blindness effect." Not on the turn of the caster who created the spell.
I find it easier to have intelligent undead save on their own turn, and always at the end of it. The difference between doing that and having the undead save on the turning cleric's turn is negligible. It's after the undead creature has been compelled to flee so that even if it saves on its first turn and recovers, it has always had at least 1 round of compelled behavior for blowing the initial save.
As long as neither's initiative count changes, you're right. On the other hand, ready and delay mess with recurring stuff regardless.
I'm not entirely sure they should affect the saves much in this situation. If the undead (or any other creature) has compelled behavior, they usually can't delay or ready actions. And if the cleric does either, that shouldn't really affect when the save is rolled.
|
As long as neither's initiative count changes, you're right. On the other hand, ready and delay mess with recurring stuff regardless.
Not really, just remember it's technically on the initiative count that the spell was cast, not actually the player's initiative. We consider it the player's initiative for simplicity.
As long as neither's initiative count changes, you're right. On the other hand, ready and delay mess with recurring stuff regardless.
Not really.
When an effect recurs, it essentially gets it's own initiative. It's easiest to track it by the initiative of the initiator, but if the initiator delays or changes initiative, the effect still recurs on the original initiative.
In my home games I keep track of initiative on a white board with numbers on it.
Recurring effects get added to the board as they come up. Keeps things pretty simple to track.