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I'm looking to try something new by building an interesting and effective investigator character. However, I've never made one before, don't know much about them, and don't really know where to start.
Can someone please tell me about some of the basic dos and don'ts of the class? Share some interesting build strategies or character concepts?
My husband wanted to play a support-type character for Hell's Rebels, so he put together an empiricist investigator focused around Aid Another. Investigators have access to a talent called Effortless Aid, which lets them use Aid Another as a move action; it's about the best action economy you'll get with Aid Another, and it lets you spread the love some. The Helpful trait (especially the halfling version) will help with this, of course.
To fit with the support idea, he invested into Acrobatics to let him zip around and set up flanking for our melee-heavy group, and was looking at an eventual quarterstaff of vaulting to make getting into position even easier. Besides Effortless Aid, most of his talents were the "add inspiration to *blank* for free" type. And he put into Disable Device and pretty much all the knowledges, as well.
He built prioritizing Dexterity and Intelligence for stats and took Weapon Finesse early on; it synergized well both with his character vision and with the class features and skills he was using. He did have some trouble with damage - the class doesn't come into its own for combat until at least 4th level, and life forced us to switch campaigns at 3rd level.
(By the way, I can't recommend N. Jolly's guide for the investigator enough. It's quite excellent.)
Figure out whether to focus on Strength or Dex (in which case getting Dex to Damage is essential) as your combat stat. Split the point buy between that stat and Int. Pick up mutagen (unless you have an archetype that prevents you from picking it) as soon as possible. Get swift action studied combat next. Put the rest of your build resources into being the king of all skill checks. Studied Combat (1/2 level to attack and damage!?) and a metric ton of buffs (barring archetypes your spell list is a "best of" list of self-improvement) will make you a wrecking ball in melee.
You can do a ranged build, but it'll take at least 4 feats to work and even then you need to be basically in melee anyway to studied combat at range.
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People complain that the investigator doesn't come online until level 4-5, but in my experience that simply isn't true. A high strength, longspear and combat reflexes doesn't care what class you are at level 1-2. And it synergizes with Longarm, Shield and Enlarge Person. Then at level 3 there's Mutagen, level 4-5 there's (quick) studied combat, 7 there's monstrous physique for mobility and multiple attacks, and 10 there's even bigger monstrous physique.
A lot of people come into investigator talking about fencing grace but I think it's a weaker build (though, still effective). Between Shield, Barkskin, Mutagen, Ablative Barrier, Displacement and Stoneskin, the Investigator doesn't have a defensive problem that requires going Dex to Damage. And although it would let you reduce MADness, in truth the empiricist investigator wasn't all that MAD to begin with. Dex to damage has a price tag that I don't like: either a lot of feats or dipping Inspired Blade, or an Agile enchantment. But in any case, every different weapon requires another investment. Meanwhile the Strength-based investigator can use a longspear, cestus or alter self/monstrous physique to select the option best for the situation. Enemies without DR? Use natural attacks to make multiple attacks each with a substantial Strength/Power Attack/Studied Combat driven boost. DR? Use the longspear to get past. Turning into a gargoyle or charda also helps if you need to fight enemies elsewhere than on the ground.
As for skills: if you want absolute mastery that'll cost you some combat potential. If you just want to be "good enough" to make sure your party can handle everything adequately, Int 16 is sufficient.
Inspiration: I think its importance is exaggerated. It's nice but alchemy, mutagen and studied combat are more powerful and have longer durations. Doesn't mean it's bad, it's just that other class features are even more important. If you do want to use Inspiration, look at Combat Inspiration talent, Inspired weapon quality, and the Half-Elf Favored Class Bonus.
Buffing other people with Infusion: I think this is stupid. You're not nearly the most efficient caster for that, you'd basically be giving away your own awesome to put one other person over the top. Who also needs to juggle the action economy of drinking extracts while trying to fight. If you want to buff people, play a cleric or bard. They're much better at multi-target buffing. Both faster (targeted spells vs. potions the target needs to drink) and cost-effective (multiple targets instead of one extract of haste).
Buffing other people with Infusion: I think this is stupid. You're not nearly the most efficient caster for that, you'd basically be giving away your own awesome to put one other person over the top. Who also needs to juggle the action economy of drinking extracts while trying to fight. If you want to buff people, play a cleric or bard. They're much better at multi-target buffing. Both faster (targeted spells vs. potions the target needs to drink) and cost-effective (multiple targets instead of one extract of haste).
This is really kind of a "party comp matters" choice. Beast shaping an invulnerable rager into something with 5 natural attacks is pretty win. I've had a lot of success with giving potions of detonate to a very mobile monk in the group. At high level giving your entire party delayed consumption extracts tailored to their combat style or simply having everyone in the party have an immediate action breath of life spell can make a pretty huge difference. Granted most of the really fun stuff doesn't come on til the teens...but its REALLY fun
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Buffing other people with Infusion: I think this is stupid. You're not nearly the most efficient caster for that, you'd basically be giving away your own awesome to put one other person over the top. Who also needs to juggle the action economy of drinking extracts while trying to fight. If you want to buff people, play a cleric or bard. They're much better at multi-target buffing. Both faster (targeted spells vs. potions the target needs to drink) and cost-effective (multiple targets instead of one extract of haste).This is really kind of a "party comp matters" choice. Beast shaping an invulnerable rager into something with 5 natural attacks is pretty win. I've had a lot of success with giving potions of detonate to a very mobile monk in the group. At high level giving your entire party delayed consumption extracts tailored to their combat style or simply having everyone in the party have an immediate action breath of life spell can make a pretty huge difference. Granted most of the really fun stuff doesn't come on til the teens...but its REALLY fun
Thing is, if the barbarian has to spend his first turn in combat drawing an extract and drinking it (without provoking enemies that might smash the bottle), then spends a round beast shaped (so no gear), and then gets five natural attacks, that really isn't all that amazing.
Delayed Consumption is a game-changer, but it's a level 5 extract so that takes a while to come online. You should totally get Infusion then of course.
I was more pre-responding to people who think the role of the investigator is to buff other people. It's not the role; it's something you can do on the side, eventually.
Buffing other people with Infusion: I think this is stupid. You're not nearly the most efficient caster for that, you'd basically be giving away your own awesome to put one other person over the top. Who also needs to juggle the action economy of drinking extracts while trying to fight. If you want to buff people, play a cleric or bard. They're much better at multi-target buffing. Both faster (targeted spells vs. potions the target needs to drink) and cost-effective (multiple targets instead of one extract of haste).This is really kind of a "party comp matters" choice. Beast shaping an invulnerable rager into something with 5 natural attacks is pretty win. I've had a lot of success with giving potions of detonate to a very mobile monk in the group. At high level giving your entire party delayed consumption extracts tailored to their combat style or simply having everyone in the party have an immediate action breath of life spell can make a pretty huge difference. Granted most of the really fun stuff doesn't come on til the teens...but its REALLY funThing is, if the barbarian has to spend his first turn in combat drawing an extract and drinking it (without provoking enemies that might smash the bottle), then spends a round beast shaped (so no gear), and then gets five natural attacks, that really isn't all that amazing.
Delayed Consumption is a game-changer, but it's a level 5 extract so that takes a while to come online. You should totally get Infusion then of course.
I was more pre-responding to people who think the role of the investigator is to buff other people. It's not the role; it's something you can do on the side, eventually.
Its been more of a "forfeits his first round to gain 5 pouncing attacks" sort of thing. The party has enough ranged threat that its generally a solid play to hold back a turn and pepper them with spells and arrows. I've basically got the players of the barb and monk trained so that either the barbarian is monstrous physiqued (i get giant form as of next session so he'll be turning into a troll and i'll be touch injectioning protection from acid and fire onto him) or the monk is enlarge/longarmed and poised to dimensional dervish around the field. And they kind of alternate taking the charge while the other buffs from combat to combat and the summoner and shaman either throw some mass group buffs or debuffs or summon some monsters.
Its definitely a secondary thing though. Its important to note that at level 20, an investigator has a better class based bonus to hit his studied target than a fighter or barbarian, better than a ranger without favored enemy (or instant enemy i know i know). The issue is iteratives.
Because the initial bonus to hit is so high If you've got the means to get some basic natural attacks , studied target and mutagen really make them shine. And at later levels your access to monstrous physique and giant form will polish that fighting style right up.
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Go for an 18 DEX and 16/17 INT. Do a Dex to damage build using a rapier with Fencing Grace, and eventually add the Inspired enchantment to your rapier. At level 9 pick up Combat Inspiration for your talent and now you're getting DEX plus double you Inspiration roll on your damage.
Also, I'd take the Empiricist Archetype. It changes the primary stat for a lot of good skills to INT, giving you plenty of out of combat uses as well.
Below is the stat block of a somewhat unorthodox investigator I played from levels 8 to 18 in a RotRL campaign back in ~2013(?). I can't really recommend going for archery if you plan to start at level 1 (the investigator gets zero bonus feats and has to pay a feat tax to use Studied Combat with ranged weapons, meaning the build takes forever to really come together), but the talents and stat spread might give you some ideas. Please don't read too much into the extract choices, this is a snapshot of the character immediately before he entered the climactic battle and his spell selection was customized specifically for that fight. :)
I heartily second Pratt's advice on the Empiricist. It is an excellent archetype.
Male half-orc investigator (empiricist) 18 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 30, 100)
NG Medium humanoid (human, orc)
Init +14; Senses blindsight 40 ft., darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +63
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Defense
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AC 46, touch 31, flat-footed 33 (+4 armor, +5 deflection, +9 Dex, +4 dodge, +1 insight, +2 luck, +7 natural, +4 shield)
hp 201 (18d8+108)
Fort +22, Ref +33, Will +22; +2 morale bonus vs. transmutation spells
Defensive Abilities evasion, trap sense +6; Immune unfailing logic (immune to illusions)
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Offense
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Speed 60 ft.
Melee luck blade (0 wishes) +41/+41/+36/+31 (1d6+27/19-20) or
unarmed strike +39/+39/+34/+29 (1d3+25 nonlethal)
Ranged +1 greenwood commanding adaptive cyclonic seeking shock composite longbow +42/+42/+42/+37/+32 (1d8+38/19-20/×3 plus 1d6 electricity)
Special Attacks studied combat (+9, 5 rounds), studied strike +8d6
Investigator (Empiricist) Extracts Prepared (CL 18th; concentration +23)
6th—heal (3)
5th—spell resistance (4), undead anatomy II[UM]
4th—death ward (2), fluid form[APG] (2), freedom of movement (2)
3rd—burrow[UM] (4, DC 18), displacement (2)
2nd—barkskin (3), extreme flexibility[ACG] (2), perceive cues[APG]
1st—heightened awareness[ACG] (3), long arm[ACG], shield (3)
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Statistics
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Str 24, Dex 28, Con 20, Int 20, Wis 10, Cha 7
Base Atk +13; CMB +40; CMD 52
Feats Clustered Shots[UC], Deadly Aim, Endurance, Fast Learner[ARG], Manyshot, Point-blank Shot, Precise Shot, Ranged Study[ACG], Rapid Shot, Snap Shot[UC], Weapon Focus (longbow)
Traits fate's favored, student of philosophy
Skills Acrobatics +15 (+27 to jump), Appraise +7, Bluff +0, Climb +13, Diplomacy +19 (+26 to gather information (You can use your Intelligence Modifier instead of Charisma)), Disable Device +39, Disguise +0, Escape Artist +21, Fly +11, Heal +6, Intimidate +0, Knowledge (arcana) +28, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +11, Knowledge (engineering) +21, Knowledge (geography) +11, Knowledge (history) +28, Knowledge (local) +11, Knowledge (nature) +11, Knowledge (nobility) +11, Knowledge (planes) +11, Knowledge (religion) +28, Linguistics +11, Perception +63, Perform (string instruments) +6, Ride +11, Sense Motive +33, Sleight of Hand +20, Spellcraft +28, Stealth +15, Survival +3 (+5 to avoid becoming lost), Swim +9, Use Magic Device +28; Racial Modifiers ceaseless observation
Languages Abyssal, Celestial, Common, Giant, Necril, Orc, Thassilonian, Varisian
SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +18), inspiration (1d8, 14/day), investigator talents (amazing inspiration, combat inspiration, combine extracts, infusion, mutagen, quick study, sickening offensive, studied defense), keen recollection, mutagen (+4/-2, +2 natural armor, 180 minutes), orc blood, trapfinding +9
Combat Gear adamantine durable arrow (50), blunt arrows (50), boro bead (1st level), boro bead (1st level), boro bead (1st level), boro bead (2nd level), boro bead (2nd level), boro bead (2nd level), cold iron durable arrow (50), durable arrow (50), gloves of arrow snaring, jaunt boots, jingasa of the fortunate soldier, mutagen, potion of delay disease, potion of gaseous form, potion of keep watch, potion of keep watch, potion of neutralize poison, potion of remove blindness/deafness, potion of remove curse, potion of shield of faith +5, potion of spider climb, silver durable arrow (50), wand of infernal healing (50 charges), antiemetic snuff (4), dye arrow (20), vomit capsule (5); Other Gear +1 greenwood commanding adaptive cyclonic seeking shock composite longbow, luck blade (0 wishes), dusty rose prism ioun stone, opalescent white pyramid ioun stone, admixture vial, belt of physical might +2 (Dex, Con), bracers of falcon's aim, cloak of resistance +5, cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone, elixir of hiding, elixir of vision, fog-cutting lenses, headband of vast intelligence +6, lantern of auras, ring of evasion, ring of protection +2, sihedron medallion, sihedron ring, swarmbane clasp, wayfinder, alchemy crafting kit, bandolier, bandolier, bedroll, belt pouch, flint and steel, handkerchief covered in fey blood, ink, black, inkpen, masterwork backpack, masterwork Lute, masterwork thieves' tools, masterwork thieves' tools, mess kit, soap, trail rations (5), waterskin, wrist sheath, spring loaded (2), 147,614 gp
Based on my experience playing Akorian I disagree with Ascalaphus with regard to buff spells - Infusions were a critical part of the power I brought to the table, in my opinion it should really be picked up as soon as possible. Being able to provide Personal-range buff spells to others are incredibly potent, especially if you combine it with Boro beads and the Alchemical Allocation extract. However, the value of the discovery does go down somewhat if your party is not good with preemptively buffing.
How did you play an investigator in a campaign in 2013 when the class was introduced in 2015?
Nice catch! I added the (?) after 2013 because I was not 100% sure what the year was and I didn't think it mattered enough to backdate it, but you were right - I started playing Akorian in the fall of 2014, not 2013.
I'm not sure why you think the investigator was introduced in 2015? The class first showed in the ACG playtest in November/December 2013 and the Advanced Class Guide was released in August 2014.
I'm looking to try something new by building an interesting and effective investigator character. However, I've never made one before, don't know much about them, and don't really know where to start.
Can someone please tell me about some of the basic dos and don'ts of the class? Share some interesting build strategies or character concepts?
You can build an investigator in 4 main ways. You have to decide which will be the most interesting to you.
1st way: STR based with a Longspear. This does the most damage IMHO and controls a lot of the board.
2nd Way: Critical Fisher w/ Butterfly Sting. Since your damage is mostly Precision based it will not benefit from Critical but that does not stop your team mates from deleting tokens by taking advantage of your High Critical weapon.
3rd way: Swashigator. This is the Dex based with a single level dip into Inspired Blade Swashbuckler with the Emp. Investigator Archetype. This guy does not have as much damage as the STR based Reacher but the Swashigator will Blow out the Reacher in the skills department. Also your AC, reflex saves, and Initiative will be higher. You could skip the Single Level dip into Swash if your start at higher levels and can easily access either an agile weapon or can complete a feat chain into Dex to damage. I personally like what the single dip offers tho for a rapier user. This is my personal favorite of the builds as the Reacher is basically the same on a Bard, Skald, Cleric, Oracle....it is played out so I enjoy the Swashigator as a more unique play-style.
4th way: Complete support. Your the Skill guy, scout, trap guy and you use your infusions to support the group with. Passing out Potables is a very nice way to go about things. Your combat abilities do suffer but like a bard you can get away with it if the rest of the group fine with this approach.
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Louise's list is more or less correct, but I'd like to add a few tidbits.
1) Strength-based also works for natural weapon builds (tengu, ratfolk, tiefling) and hybrid builds that use multiple weapons/polymorph extracts if enemies lack DR. In a way it's more versatile.
3) It's a basically the "gentlemen" companion to the brute strength build. Keep in mind that the brute strength can make it to really high AC and good enough skills to never feel like you're in trouble; this build takes the defensive/skill thing completely over the top but at a significant cost in offense and feats. Note that this build also works with natural weapons and an agile amulet, but that does mean you probably want permanent natural weapons to make sure you can respond fast enough to combat happening.
4) I still think this is a weak build, compared to the other investigator builds and compared to other classes doing this build.
5) Two-weapon fighting. Studied combat makes it viable, giving you enough to-hit and damage on light weapons in off hands to make this work. It's a way to make a dex build that doesn't actually require dex to damage.
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In each case, a big part of playing an investigator is determining how fast you can buff yourself up for battle. In PFS combat tends to start quite suddenly, and is decided in a few rounds. You can't spend three rounds drinking minute/level buffs. In a scenario taking place over the course over a hole day, you're at a disadvantage. In a dungeon where you can expect to "do" the whole dungeon within 10 minutes/level, you're much more powerful because many of your buffs last that long.
This is what makes Combine Extracts such a powerful discovery. Raising Shield and Longarm in one action for example.
This is what makes Combine Extracts such a powerful discovery. Raising Shield and Longarm in one action for example.
What's raising shield?
That sounds nice!