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Ia! Ia! Cthulhu Ftagn! A Guide To The Elder Mythos Cultist


Advice


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Click here for unlimited eldritch power!

My first guide, to the Elder Mythos cultist archetype from Horror Adventures. Any feedback is appreciated.


It might be worth mentioning the Dreamed Secrets feat. Sure, your will save is worse than the average cleric without a lot of work, but you do worship the right deity at least.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

Another feat you should add is: Noble Scion (Scion of war).

For a charisma caster being able to use cha for initiative is pretty amazing.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I have to disagree about the racial Favored Class bonuses for humans and tieflings. +1/level against Spell Resistance is flat-out amazing. As a very general rule, outsiders have SR that's around your level +10, so that you have around a 50% chance of getting through. So once you hit +10, you can _pretty much ignore SR_. This is totally worth 10 hp or 10 skill ranks! Think of it this way -- you can get +1 hp/level from Toughness, but you'll only get +2 against SR from a feat (Spell Penetration). So this Favored Class bonus is like getting Spell Penetration over and over again every two rounds.

It's great for any cleric, but it's *even more* great for you. Evil outsiders are like your whole thing! You'll be probably be going against them even more than normal clerics. So anything that gives you an edge is solid gold.

Doug M.


Based on my reading, the Great Old One you worship doesn't need to offer a domain for you to pick it. The text seems to imply that they do need to offer subdomains, though. Not sure what the RAI is, but I thought I'd mention it. This might even be worth a FAQ request.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Idle thought: being Cha-based does open up some new possibilities for multiclassing. Dipping bard is still suboptimal, of course -- but it's thematic for a cleric of Azathoth, and does open up some nice synergies. If you're a bad touch cleric, dipping Mesmerist may hardly be suboptimal at all, if you're hitting people with a lot of save-or-suck Will saves.

Doug M.


I suspect it will never be particularly optimal, but a Cleric (Elder Mythos Cultist) / Sorcerer (Aberrant, Impossible, or Ghoul Bloodline) / Mystic Theurge would be thematic as hell.

Scarab Sages

It's time I said something - nothing personal to THIS particular guide/thread, you understand, this is just something that's been on my mind for years:

While I acknowledge that the writers of the guides to the Baldur's Gate games and even 3.5's Complete Mage did this sort of thing, I really don't like the idea of these "Guides" people keep writing and posting here. They're just armchair editorials posing as authoritative sources, telling people (people new to the game, in particular) how to think about classes/feats/spells/etc and subtly forcing them into a collective mold, instead of giving them freedom to exercise, experiment and to develop their own judgments without any biasing from others. I think it hurts the game and those who play it, overall, effectively leeching the community of creativity and new and different ideas.


I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

It's time I said something - nothing personal to THIS particular guide/thread, you understand, this is just something that's been on my mind for years:

While I acknowledge that the writers of the guides to the Baldur's Gate games and even 3.5's Complete Mage did this sort of thing, I really don't like the idea of these "Guides" people keep writing and posting here. They're just armchair editorials posing as authoritative sources, telling people (people new to the game, in particular) how to think about classes/feats/spells/etc and subtly forcing them into a collective mold, instead of giving them freedom to exercise, experiment and to develop their own judgments without any biasing from others. I think it hurts the game and those who play it, overall, effectively leeching the community of creativity and new and different ideas.

Just because ideas are new or different doesn't make them useful.

Is there a great history of people posting feedback to guides with other options and being treated poorly? Most of the time ive witnessed guide writers are pretty open to incorporating as many neat builds and power/feat combos into a guide as possible.


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I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

It's time I said something - nothing personal to THIS particular guide/thread, you understand, this is just something that's been on my mind for years:

While I acknowledge that the writers of the guides to the Baldur's Gate games and even 3.5's Complete Mage did this sort of thing, I really don't like the idea of these "Guides" people keep writing and posting here. They're just armchair editorials posing as authoritative sources, telling people (people new to the game, in particular) how to think about classes/feats/spells/etc and subtly forcing them into a collective mold, instead of giving them freedom to exercise, experiment and to develop their own judgments without any biasing from others. I think it hurts the game and those who play it, overall, effectively leeching the community of creativity and new and different ideas.

Creativity for creativity's sake gets you Star Fox Zero. Guides are always a good resource, since even if the guide writer missed an option or perhaps did not rate something correctly, there are always others who can point out missed options and give feedback on ratings. The simple truth is that in Pathfinder the overwhelming majority of options are trap options. Having guides that can help players avoid trap options helps to promote meaningful choices. You are entitled to your opinion of course, but is Star Fox Zero really what you want?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Dreikaiserbund wrote:
I suspect it will never be particularly optimal, but a Cleric (Elder Mythos Cultist) / Sorcerer (Aberrant, Impossible, or Ghoul Bloodline) / Mystic Theurge would be thematic as hell.

Oh, heck yes. A Bad Touch Cleric with a 10' reach? SAD everything on Cha, go Aberrant. Yeah, you have to wait until 8th level before you get your Theurge on, but you get oh, so many spells to play with. Even if weakish as a PC, you'd have an awesome NPC cult leader or something.

Doug M.

Shadow Lodge

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Added to the Guide to the Guides

Guide to the Builds


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The whole Guide question probably deserves a thread of its own. I will note that Paizo does publish a lot of... trap options? Well, let's say, stuff that is clearly suboptimal in actual play. That's a thing.

Doug M.


I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
It's time I said something - nothing personal to THIS particular guide/thread, you understand, this is just something that's been on my mind for years:

Never thought I'd see someone try to seriously argue that offering advice to people who ask for it is actually somehow malicious behavior.

Trying to use that to sabotage and derail the OP instead of striking out on your own to talk about it is especially cruel.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah let's just leave this be. If anyone wants to discuss whether Guides are a good idea? That's fine, it's a totally reasonable topic for this forum -- but start a separate thread instead of threadjacking. Meshaka put work into this Guide; it deserves its own discussion.

Doug M.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Additional thought on multiclassing: if you start as a Ghoul bloodline sorceror with at least a 12 Str, then the weapon issue is less troublesome -- you're going Mystic Theurge so you'll never be very good in melee, but two full attacks for d4+1 and a +1 to natural AC mean you're not quite as pathetic as a typical Theurge. And, of course, it's nicely thematic.

Doug M.

Scarab Sages

Ryan Freire wrote:

Just because ideas are new or different doesn't make them useful.

How are you ever going to know if you don't give people space to develop and experiment with them? New and different ideas are inherently valuable, independently of how they might later be implied. The conservative mentality is poison to RPGs, and your apparent sneeriness toward, of all things, creativity and originality, only serves to support my thesis.

swoosh wrote:

Never thought I'd see someone try to seriously argue that offering advice to people who ask for it is actually somehow malicious behavior.

Excuse me??? I never said a word about "malice" - on the contrary, I'm saying the intent is benevolent (meaning well), but the resulting effect is maleficent (doing harm).

I've said enough. Carry on.


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I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
Ryan Freire wrote:

Just because ideas are new or different doesn't make them useful.

How are you ever going to know if you don't give people space to develop and experiment with them? New and different ideas are inherently valuable, independently of how they might later be implied. The conservative mentality is poison to RPGs, and your apparent sneeriness toward, of all things, creativity and originality, only serves to support my thesis.

swoosh wrote:

Never thought I'd see someone try to seriously argue that offering advice to people who ask for it is actually somehow malicious behavior.

Excuse me??? I never said a word about "malice" - on the contrary, I'm saying the intent is benevolent (meaning well), but the resulting effect is maleficent (doing harm).

I've said enough. Carry on.

Nah, you said enough first post. As for sneering, you're reading more into that than exists.

"i'm going to make a throwing weapon paladin"

Well, paladin does't really get good feat access and that throwing style requires a lot of feat investment to work so thats not a great choice, its not inherently valuable in the same way saying "what if we just forgive the portion of the national debt owed to the country" isn't a valuable idea on dealing with the national debt.

Moreover things like guides hold far more value to the community than the 8000000 billionth "talk it over with your gm" post.

This is the "just spec any way you want" post you see on every mmo for people looking for help to make an effective character.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

I like this guide.

To the guides are the bane of existence question, this isn't one. The guides that make rules assertions (that happen to be creative RAW interpretations) that create issues at the table "but this guide said it works!!! GM - Well the guide is wrong". They don't help.


the Diviner wrote:

Another feat you should add is: Noble Scion (Scion of war).

For a charisma caster being able to use cha for initiative is pretty amazing.

It also makes sense from a fluff perspective if you worship Hastur, considering that he's a god of decadence and has some aristocratic motifs (the rapier, power through the arts).


Also are there any ways to capitalize on the maddening gaze attack's Wisdom damage? The Eldritch Heritage feats are also worth considering since you'll certainly have the charisma requirement down. You still need skill focus though, which is a bit of a feat tax.


Reduxist wrote:
Also are there any ways to capitalize on the maddening gaze attack's Wisdom damage?

First thing that comes to mind is simply to have some nasty spells with Will saves. Lower the enemy's Will Save via Gaze, then hit them with a Reaching Harm.


Sacred summons should be in any cleric build that focuses on summons especially for a cleric that takes dark tapestry ! Hell yes you want summon as standard action... Neon blue feat because if mythos cultists can be good at anything it is summoning and this fits the fluff also perfectly.

And for any cleric that can do a standard action summoning AND is charisma based you do want quicken channel, well I would..

because negative variant channel monsters protects your precious and negative channel madness to make everybody insane in the membrane. Again effective AND fits the fluff like a sticky, smelly glove...


Personally I'm a big fan of guides..... good work!

Although ironically in this case, a guide is pointless since the archetype is pretty terrible! IMO obviously designed as a thematic NPC/BBEG rather than a PC


Haven't had the chance to go through it in its entirety yet, but may I recommend a Red and Orange that stand out more from each other?
The colours are really difficult to differentiate.

I also disagree with the Human FCB being rated so low. Its effectively multiple Spell Pen feats (or a permanent Piercing Spell) against some of the game's most difficult and dangerous enemies. Just comparing it to Toughness or Cunning (+1 HP and Skill respectively), you can see the value. When you absolutely need a spell to stick on an outsider, you will regret not taking this. Additionally it gives you the benefit of having more flexible spell preparation as you no longer have to worry about SR: None.

Also +1 Dreamed Secrets.

I'll provide more substantial comments down the road.

Grand Lodge

I Terpani master of the thrown starknife (No silly Arsenal Chaplain here) doth love the challenge of proving guides wrong Ha Ha! Ideas are already brewing for a great use of the Elder Mythos archetype and with a suboptimal Prestige class on top of it. So yes keep the dismissive comments coming.


Also if you are worshiping a Great Old One and want to summon or call evil outsiders with a conjuration, Preklikin's Book of Cults gets you a cheap lesser metamagic rod of extend. +1 resistance to will saves to before you grab a cloak.


Oh, and Ganzis are a great race to consider: +2 to Con and Cha and the Quibble ability that can make others reroll things as a curse effect!


Just realized something (again); this was probably coincidental and a bit of a reach, but due to the charisma dependency and the fact that you can use the Void domain, you can also specialize in Planar Binding spells.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Reduxist wrote:
Just realized something (again); this was probably coincidental and a bit of a reach, but due to the charisma dependency and the fact that you can use the Void domain, you can also specialize in Planar Binding spells.

Wait, the Void domain gives you *all three* Planar Binding spells?

Oh hell to the yes. Suddenly this Archetype makes all kinds of sense. Right now, all the core planar binders have a problem: wizards usually have crap Cha while sorcerors are handicapped by their low spells known. And clerics, of course, can't use planar binding at all -- they're stuck with the distinctly inferior Planar Ally spell instead. But this cuts right past all those problems. AND you have access to the human or tiefling FCB, which lets you pretty much ignore SR! Sweet. Sweeeet.

Doug M.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

An item you should link to: Padma Blossom

A binding focused Mythos Cultist should consider going Darkfire Adept. Especially with the new prestige class feats that makes you not lose casting progression or CL.


Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
Reduxist wrote:
Just realized something (again); this was probably coincidental and a bit of a reach, but due to the charisma dependency and the fact that you can use the Void domain, you can also specialize in Planar Binding spells.

Wait, the Void domain gives you *all three* Planar Binding spells?

Oh hell to the yes. Suddenly this Archetype makes all kinds of sense. Right now, all the core planar binders have a problem: wizards usually have crap Cha while sorcerors are handicapped by their low spells known. And clerics, of course, can't use planar binding at all -- they're stuck with the distinctly inferior Planar Ally spell instead. But this cuts right past all those problems. AND you have access to the human or tiefling FCB, which lets you pretty much ignore SR! Sweet. Sweeeet.

Doug M.

The moderate limitation I see is that your aligned spell restrictions will prevent you from calling or controlling a big swath of outsiders. If you're CN you're kind of limited to NG/N/NE since you can't cast Protection from Chaos or summon Lawful outsiders.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
the Diviner wrote:
A binding focused Mythos Cultist should consider going Darkfire Adept. Especially with the new prestige class feats that makes you not lose casting progression or CL.

I have to disagree. I wrote the Mini-Guide to the Blackfire Adept (aka the Darkfire Adept if you're using the PFSRD), and my conclusion there was that this PrC is painfully underpowered. If you add in the feats from Path of the Righteous... well, here's what I wrote:

Quote:

Okay, so I've just been made aware of the new feats (from Paths of the Righteous) that return casting levels lost from taking a PrC. First there's Favored Prestige Class, which lets you treat one PrC as a favored class. That's obviously suboptimal -- you'd be better off taking toughness -- but not completely useless. Then there's Prestigious Caster, which has Favored Prestige Class as a prerequisite. This feat restores one lost level of casting! And you can take it multiple times to restore multiple levels.

This isn't amazing, but it does make the Blackfire Adept slightly less miserable. Burn these two feats and you're still pretty weak from sixth to eighth levels, but at ninth you start using Lesser Planar Binding to call 12 HD creatures.

One slight complication: since it already costs two feats to become a Blackfire Adept, if you want to enter this class immediately but not lose a level of casting at 6th level, then you'll have to play either a human (bonus feat) or a wizard (bonus magic feat at 5th). Otherwise you'll have to take your two prerequisite feats at 1st and 3rd levels, then Favored Prestige Class at 5th, and Prestigious Caster at 7th.

I'll stand by that, except to add a couple of minor points: in order to get full value out of this combo you really want Augment Calling. That's the whole point of the exercise -- you get to abuse the Planar Binding spells (and Gate, if you live that long) by calling stuff up to 4 HD above the limit. So Augment Calling pretty much has to be your 9th level feat. So unless you're playing a human, that's your first five feats locked in. Also, the Blackfire Adept has to throw 5 skill ranks each at two skills and also pick up two languages. Since clerics only get a miserable two skill ranks/level, you really want to either play a human, or invest in an INT of 12 or higher -- otherwise you can't enter this class at 6th level (nor invest in any other interesting or useful skills).

Doug M.


the Diviner wrote:
An item you should link to: Padma Blossom

Holy socks. I was looking for exactly that item, for the guy who's writing the Demoniac miniguide! Thanks, man.

Doug M.


Meshakhad wrote:

Click here for unlimited eldritch power!

My first guide, to the Elder Mythos cultist archetype from Horror Adventures. Any feedback is appreciated.

Please add the new gods from the Strange Aeons AP (Nhimbaloth, for example).

DM_DM wrote:
the Diviner wrote:
An item you should link to: Padma Blossom

Holy socks. I was looking for exactly that item, for the guy who's writing the Demoniac miniguide! Thanks, man.

Doug M.

I like the Azata's Whimsy more.


Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
Reduxist wrote:
Just realized something (again); this was probably coincidental and a bit of a reach, but due to the charisma dependency and the fact that you can use the Void domain, you can also specialize in Planar Binding spells.

Wait, the Void domain gives you *all three* Planar Binding spells?

Oh hell to the yes. Suddenly this Archetype makes all kinds of sense. Right now, all the core planar binders have a problem: wizards usually have crap Cha while sorcerors are handicapped by their low spells known. And clerics, of course, can't use planar binding at all -- they're stuck with the distinctly inferior Planar Ally spell instead. But this cuts right past all those problems. AND you have access to the human or tiefling FCB, which lets you pretty much ignore SR! Sweet. Sweeeet.

Doug M.

The moderate limitation I see is that your aligned spell restrictions will prevent you from calling or controlling a big swath of outsiders. If you're CN you're kind of limited to NG/N/NE since you can't cast Protection from Chaos or summon Lawful outsiders.

The character trait for Ancient Ones called Worthless Pawn allows you to ignore this restriction.

Highly recommended for a Binder.


Dreikaiserbund wrote:
Sorcerer (Aberrant, Impossible, or Ghoul Bloodline)

No love for Starsoul?


There are also new gods that aren't included in the guide listed on pathfinder wiki, which are:[list]

  • Abhoth,
  • Nhimbaloth,
  • Chaugnar Faugn,
  • Mordiggian,
  • Orgesh,
  • Ithaqua,
  • Rhan-Tegoth,
  • and Tsathoggua.

    The other new gods aren't eligible for the archetype since they were either Neutral Evil or didn't have any compatible domains/subdomains. Correct me if I'm wrong though!


  • Quote:


    Domains: An Elder Mythos cultist receives only a single domain, chosen from the following list: Chaos, Madness, or Void. He can choose any subdomain of those domains offered by an Outer God or Great Old One he worships.

    This ability alters domains.

    To me this seems like an EMC must choose from one of those domains (even if they aren't offered) but can choose from any Subdomain that their Deity offers.

    It doesn't say she must choose a Deity who contains one of those Domains. Ie: "Deities: An Elder Mythos cultist must worship an Outer God or Great Old One with the Chaos, Madness, or Void Domains."

    Any ideas?
    It would open up a few more Ancient Ones if thats the case.


    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    dot


    @Douglas Muir there are also the Caller's Feathers which are one-use items that can boost your HD limit. At 2,000 GP or 1,000 if crafting it, it's a steal at 15th level. There also racisl traits that augment Planar Ally such as the Aasimar's Planar Negotiator, which reduces bargaining prices by 10%, or the Drow's Blasphemous Covenant , which specifically targets demons, but reduces the cost by a whopping 20% on top of giving demons you summoned via Summon Monster additional health.


    Samasboy1 wrote:
    No love for Starsoul?

    I confess I was doing it from memory and forgot about 'em. Actually originally I was just going to say Aberrant.

    Still, I have an urge to try a Mystic Theurge build now. Aberrant, plus Lunging Spell Touch, plus Cleric Bad Touch spells seems like it could be a thing. Would take a while to get going, but most of the best 'bad touch' spells are relatively low level (I'm thinking Bestow Curse at Cleric 3rd, or Frigid Touch at Sorc 2nd), so you'd have a lot of endurance relative to most casters.


    Hubaris wrote:
    Quote:


    Domains: An Elder Mythos cultist receives only a single domain, chosen from the following list: Chaos, Madness, or Void. He can choose any subdomain of those domains offered by an Outer God or Great Old One he worships.

    This ability alters domains.

    To me this seems like an EMC must choose from one of those domains (even if they aren't offered) but can choose from any Subdomain that their Deity offers.

    It doesn't say she must choose a Deity who contains one of those Domains. Ie: "Deities: An Elder Mythos cultist must worship an Outer God or Great Old One with the Chaos, Madness, or Void Domains."

    Any ideas?
    It would open up a few more Ancient Ones if thats the case.

    It's a bit vague, but if I were a GM, I would probably rule otherwise - that it has to be an Ancient One who actually has one of those domains.

    I'll get around to adding the other Ancient Ones later, btw.


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    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
    Reduxist wrote:
    @Douglas Muir there are also the Caller's Feathers which are one-use items that can boost your HD limit. At 2,000 GP or 1,000 if crafting it, it's a steal at 15th level. There also racisl traits that augment Planar Ally such as the Aasimar's Planar Negotiator, which reduces bargaining prices by 10%, or the Drow's Blasphemous Covenant , which specifically targets demons, but reduces the cost by a whopping 20% on top of giving demons you summoned via Summon Monster additional health.

    Someone has read my Guide to the Diabolist!

    Or if you haven't read it, and you knew that stuff anyway - then go read it, please, and tell me if you have any comments. Well-informed input is the very best kind.

    Doug M.


    In Search of Sanity has a whole section on the Elder Gods, even some new ones (pages 63-73)

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