I feel silly asking this but... The feats I have listed in title are not Combat Feats and are in a feat list of their own, Correct?
Therefore a Fighter can't choose them as Fighter feats and Martial Flexibility & Barroom Brawler can't use them as they are NOT combat feats.
The only way to gain these feats would be your Character Advancement Feats at every odd level.
Did I miss something?
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A fighter can also grab them with Advanced weapon Training
Weapon mastery feats and Telekinetic mastery are definitely combat feats. IIRC armor and shield mastery feats are combat feats too.
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Weapon mastery feats count as combat feats for all purposes, including which classes can select them as bonus feats, and you gain the benefits of a weapon mastery feat only while wielding a weapon that belongs to a fighter weapon group that you have selected with the fighter weapon training class feature (referred to hereafter as an “appropriate weapon”), and any effect of these feats related to attacks applies only to attacks from such weapons unless the feat specifies otherwise. Characters who lack the weapon training class feature can access weapon mastery feats by taking the Martial Focus feat below.
There's similar passages in the Armor Master's Handbook for Armor Mastery Feats and Shield Mastery feats at page 16 and 18, respectively.
True, I missed that.
Therefore, only Item Mastery is not a Combat feat?
correct
Great... Now I have Brawler Mayhem to look forward to. At least he can't use Teleportation Mastery.
Keep in mind Barroom brawler can be used to take Advanced weapon training which can give Item mastery.
Great... Now I have Brawler Mayhem to look forward to. At least he can't use Teleportation Mastery.
Fighter with Barroom Brawler and Abundant Tactics and an open slot for the "once every 5 levels" AWT feat can snag the AWT feat grabbing the option for Item Mastery grabbing Teleportation Mastery, however.
Doesn't even need to meet the teleportation mastery feat's item requirement to do so.
{Head slumps down} I'm doomed. Looks like Martial Flexibility mixed with Player's Intelligence and Knowledge will rule the battle field.
Same goes for Barroom Brawler and Abundant Tactics of coarse.
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{Head slumps down} I'm doomed. Looks like Martial Flexibility mixed with Player's Intelligence and Knowledge will rule the battle field.
Take heart, with options added in recent books through intricate system mastery martial classes like the Brawler and the Fighter are now able to occasionally reach the heights of power and versatility that a wizard has been able to roll out of bed and manage ever since the core rules were printed.
Which is to say: it will be fine.
and you can always houserule that you can't select those to gain temporarily if you feel you really don't want/can't handle it.
Thanks guys. You been a great help and comfort. At least, somewhat like a wizard, there's a limit per day these tactics can work.
The lack of teleportation mastery probably removes one of the nastier tricks the player has anyway.
The spells this player can access by these tactics (IIRC) are:
Suggestion - unless your NPCs are morons, this falls into so much fiat, it's down to you what happens.
Bestow curse - actually pretty nasty as a debuff.
Dispel magic - plenty of ways to keep foes threatening without having to constantly leverage magic for it.
Burning hands, lightning bolt - The latter is often worse than attacking (unless an NPC has enormous AC), the former is just a fun way to disperse crowds but isn't powerful.
Fly - By the time this comes in, the party tends to have access to it anyway, and needs it. Not too bad.
Minor image - Depends hugely on player's wits - given the limitations.
Telekinesis - Somewhat fun. Mostly for damage or maneuvers. The latter require building for by these levels, and the former - damage is just damage.
Darkvision, see invisibility - Well these are just good sense to have.
I am veering into "advice" here (despite rules forum) - but what common strategies are making this trick a pain?
Physically Unfeasible, thank you for asking. But you really don't want to know. It is a big can of worms.
But I am touch you asked.
Thank You again.
I think as long as you apply the reasonable rule that using Martial Flexibility/Barroom Brawler only allows for the number of total uses of the abilities as though the character actually had the feat permanently you should be fine.
Keep in mind the item mastery feats can only be used like 3 times per day. The only reason they're really much good at all is using them with things like Martial Flexibility.
And, it's restricted to classes and archetypes that get weapon training.
Which is pretty small.
A bralwer can't even do it on their own. They would have to "dip" fighter for 5 levels to get weapon training.
I think as long as you apply the reasonable rule that using Martial Flexibility/Barroom Brawler only allows for the number of total uses of the abilities as though the character actually had the feat permanently you should be fine.
Keep in mind the item mastery feats can only be used like 3 times per day. The only reason they're really much good at all is using them with things like Martial Flexibility.
And, it's restricted to classes and archetypes that get weapon training.
Which is pretty small.
A bralwer can't even do it on their own. They would have to "dip" fighter for 5 levels to get weapon training.
If you're dipping fighter from brawler you can take the Weapon Master archetype to get weapon training at level 3, slightly better for getting item mastery through martial flexibility. Guide here
Brawler can also go Arsenal Chaplain to skip the fighter dip if want to avoid Multiclassing.
Brawler can also go Arsenal Chaplain to skip the fighter dip if want to avoid Multiclassing.
Do you mean Warpriest?
Brawler can also go Arsenal Chaplain to skip the fighter dip if want to avoid Multiclassing....
I'm pretty sure he meant to say Warpriest. As in an Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest with Barroom Brawler and extra martial flexibility. You don't technically qualify for EMF, but some GMs would probably overlook it.
Shh no coffee yet this morning.
I'm pretty sure he meant to say Warpriest. As in an Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest with Barroom Brawler and extra martial flexibility. You don't technically qualify for EMF, but some GMs would probably overlook it.Brawler can also go Arsenal Chaplain to skip the fighter dip if want to avoid Multiclassing....
Could also take Abudent Tactics as one of the Advanced weapon training.