Vital Strike whilst Mounted


Rules Questions

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Firstly I want to mention this does NOT involve charge, I know that you can't use vital strike unless the attack action is used.

Anyway, I was wondering if I could be on a mount and have the mount use Spring Attack (which isn't charging) and then I use an attack action as it makes its attack from Spring Attack, and if it is an attack action does that mean I can use Vital Strike?

To break it down:
Mount uses Spring Attack to move to target, more than 10ft and not adjacent
Mount uses attack as part of Spring Attack (mount doesn't have Vital Strike, isn't trying to use it)
Rider uses Vital Strike as an attack action before the mount moves again
Mount finishes Spring Attack by moving more

Does this all pan out or do I have a misunderstanding? Again, NO CHARGING is involved. I already looked through the FAQ and tried searching the forum to see if it had been specifically answered elsewhere and I do not see it. I personally take that as being fine but I figured it was probably best to ask.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

When your mount charges, you charge.
If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack which Vital Strike is not.


James Risner wrote:

When your mount charges, you charge.

If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack which Vital Strike is not.

Is spring attack a form of charge? I do not see where that is mentioned. If you think I am trying to charge, I am not. Are you saying if my mount moves more than 5 feet I am considered to have charged even if no charge action was taken by my mount?

EDIT: My example has my mount using Spring Attack and me using an Attack Action since my mount is moving more than 5ft. I guess a similar question is if my mount moves and doesn't charge, what kind of actions can I still use?


That second line is not true. Anytime you make just one attack that is not a charge or spring attack Vital Strike is possible.


Azten wrote:
That second line is not true. Anytime you make just one attack that is not a charge or spring attack Vital Strike is possible.

My mount is the one making a single attack as part of Spring Attack. This uses my mount's full round action. Since my mount has moved I am still allowed a single attack. There is no charging involved, so do I use the attack action to make this attack?

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

More words from me would have helped.

You mentioned the charge FAQ.
I mentioned that rule to convey a similar way of thinking is used on mounted combat.

If your mount moves 10 ft, you can't Vital strike.


James Risner wrote:

More words from me would have helped.

You mentioned the charge FAQ.
I mentioned that rule to convey a similar way of thinking is used on mounted combat.

If your mount moves 10 ft, you can't Vital strike.

Ok, so let me ask this separate question. My mount moves 10ft and isn't charging. I am still allowed a single attack. What action am I taking to achieve this single attack?


What if you ready an action to vital strike when in range before your mount begins its spring attack?


Java Man wrote:
What if you ready an action to vital strike when in range before your mount begins its spring attack?

If I can ready an action, that is a standard action. If I can take a standard action, I can already take the attack action, right? And I don't want to get into the controversy about a readied action triggering because my mount moved closed to someone.


Ok, better and simplified questions to get my point across.

My mount uses Spring Attack to move, attack and move.
Is using Spring Attack considered a charge?
If it is a charge, does that mean I am also charging?
If I am not charging, do I get a standard action?
If I do get a standard action, can I use it before my mount takes its second move?


James Risner wrote:

More words from me would have helped.

You mentioned the charge FAQ.
I mentioned that rule to convey a similar way of thinking is used on mounted combat.

If your mount moves 10 ft, you can't Vital strike.

Say what?


Spring attack is not a charge. The problem with attacking when your mount uses spring attack is timing, you can take your action before or after your mount's action, not during. Spring attack is one action, not two moves with an attack in the middle. This is why I earlier suggested a readied action to vital strike, allowing your action to interrupt the flow of the mount's action.


When the rules say "you can only make a single melee attack", it's clearly in reference to not being able to make a full attack. "Single melee attack" by itself isn't a recognized type of action at all, so I have no idea why someone would interpret that text as acting like you were using an ability that granted a "single melee attack". The reason you can't use Spring Attack and Vital Strike is that Spring Attack itself is the action.

Besides, there's little to suggest that you're restricted from taking a standard action after your mount moves. I mean seriously, if you can have your mount move and then cast a spell after it's done moving, then obviously the intent isn't to tell people they can't use a standard action after a mount moves.


Java Man wrote:
Spring attack is not a charge. The problem with attacking when your mount uses spring attack is timing, you can take your action before or after your mount's action, not during. Spring attack is one action, nkt two moves with an attack in the middle. This is why I earlier suggested a readied action to vital strike, allowing your action to interrupt the flow of the mount's action.

Makes sense. However I've heard arguments against it though. I mean at the end of the day my DM is rather easygoing but I prefer to have rules first because, well rules are rules. If I can avoid DM intervention with houserules, I will.

My basic concept was Goblin Samurai that rides a Wolf and the Wolf Spring Attacks and assuming I still got a standard action, I'd go vital strike build.


BadBird wrote:

When the rules say "you can only make a single melee attack", it's clearly in reference to not being able to make a full attack. "Single melee attack" by itself isn't a recognized type of action at all, so I have no idea why someone would interpret that text as acting like you were using an ability that granted a "single melee attack". The reason you can't use Spring Attack and Vital Strike is that Spring Attack itself is the action.

Besides, there's little to suggest that you're restricted from taking a standard action after your mount moves. I mean seriously, if you can have your mount move and then cast a spell after it's done moving, then obviously the intent isn't to tell people they can't use a standard action after a mount moves.

So this means if I have a standard action after my mount uses Spring Attack, I can personally use Vital Strike, yes? Just not between its movements because Spring Attack is a full round action?


Kuremento wrote:
My basic concept was Goblin Samurai that rides a Wolf and the Wolf Spring Attacks and assuming I still got a standard action, I'd go vital strike build.

A one-level dip into Sohei Monk can be used to grab Mounted Skirmisher, in which case you can full-attack during your mount's movement...

EDIT: actually, no, probably not during it's movement. My mistake.


BadBird wrote:
Kuremento wrote:
My basic concept was Goblin Samurai that rides a Wolf and the Wolf Spring Attacks and assuming I still got a standard action, I'd go vital strike build.

A one-level dip into Sohei Monk can be used to grab Mounted Skirmisher, in which case you can full-attack during your mount's movement...

EDIT: actually, no, probably not during it's movement. My mistake.

So it is probably better to just forget trying to standard action for vital strike and instead just go for spirited charge, ride by attack, stuff like that, and just charge?

And for reference I'm not much of a dipper kind of person, not that dipping is bad. If I need to dip for a build concept, I will.


Kuremento wrote:
Java Man wrote:
Spring attack is not a charge. The problem with attacking when your mount uses spring attack is timing, you can take your action before or after your mount's action, not during. Spring attack is one action, nkt two moves with an attack in the middle. This is why I earlier suggested a readied action to vital strike, allowing your action to interrupt the flow of the mount's action.

Makes sense. However I've heard arguments against it though. I mean at the end of the day my DM is rather easygoing but I prefer to have rules first because, well rules are rules. If I can avoid DM intervention with houserules, I will.

My basic concept was Goblin Samurai that rides a Wolf and the Wolf Spring Attacks and assuming I still got a standard action, I'd go vital strike build.

Not to side track the discussion, but what are the arguements against this? Looks like the definition of readied actions to me.


Java Man wrote:
Kuremento wrote:
Java Man wrote:
Spring attack is not a charge. The problem with attacking when your mount uses spring attack is timing, you can take your action before or after your mount's action, not during. Spring attack is one action, nkt two moves with an attack in the middle. This is why I earlier suggested a readied action to vital strike, allowing your action to interrupt the flow of the mount's action.

Makes sense. However I've heard arguments against it though. I mean at the end of the day my DM is rather easygoing but I prefer to have rules first because, well rules are rules. If I can avoid DM intervention with houserules, I will.

My basic concept was Goblin Samurai that rides a Wolf and the Wolf Spring Attacks and assuming I still got a standard action, I'd go vital strike build.

Not to side track the discussion, but what are the arguements against this? Looks like the definition of readied actions to me.

From ready action:

"To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition."

There was something about how when your mount takes a move action or moves that it counts against the "before your next action" clause.


Java Man wrote:
Kuremento wrote:
Java Man wrote:
Spring attack is not a charge. The problem with attacking when your mount uses spring attack is timing, you can take your action before or after your mount's action, not during. Spring attack is one action, nkt two moves with an attack in the middle. This is why I earlier suggested a readied action to vital strike, allowing your action to interrupt the flow of the mount's action.

Makes sense. However I've heard arguments against it though. I mean at the end of the day my DM is rather easygoing but I prefer to have rules first because, well rules are rules. If I can avoid DM intervention with houserules, I will.

My basic concept was Goblin Samurai that rides a Wolf and the Wolf Spring Attacks and assuming I still got a standard action, I'd go vital strike build.

Not to side track the discussion, but what are the arguements against this? Looks like the definition of readied actions to me.

You don't even need a readied action, because readied actions are for actions not on your initiative turn. This attack takes place during your initiative. You have a full round's worth of actions available to you, with the caveat that you can only make a single melee attack.

So, you can use a move action to do something, like retrieve an item, and then use your standard action to make a single melee attack, with vital strike if you want.

Frankly, the idea that you can't make a full attack action while your mount is moving is pretty dumb. It assumes that you aren't in melee range during the entire motion, which is not always the case.

Your mount could be running through a crowd of enemies, it could be circling a large or huge enemy, or any number of scenarios where you are always/mostly in melee range to attack.

An archer can use a full-action ranged attack while his mount is moving, so melee attacks should also be allowed if enemies are within range during the movement.


_Ozy_ wrote:
Java Man wrote:
Kuremento wrote:
Java Man wrote:
Spring attack is not a charge. The problem with attacking when your mount uses spring attack is timing, you can take your action before or after your mount's action, not during. Spring attack is one action, nkt two moves with an attack in the middle. This is why I earlier suggested a readied action to vital strike, allowing your action to interrupt the flow of the mount's action.

Makes sense. However I've heard arguments against it though. I mean at the end of the day my DM is rather easygoing but I prefer to have rules first because, well rules are rules. If I can avoid DM intervention with houserules, I will.

My basic concept was Goblin Samurai that rides a Wolf and the Wolf Spring Attacks and assuming I still got a standard action, I'd go vital strike build.

Not to side track the discussion, but what are the arguements against this? Looks like the definition of readied actions to me.

You don't even need a readied action, because readied actions are for actions not on your initiative turn. This attack takes place during your initiative. You have a full round's worth of actions available to you, with the caveat that you can only make a single melee attack.

So, you can use a move action to do something, like retrieve an item, and then use your standard action to make a single melee attack, with vital strike if you want.

Frankly, the idea that you can't make a full attack action while your mount is moving is pretty dumb. It assumes that you aren't in melee range during the entire motion, which is not always the case.

Your mount could be running through a crowd of enemies, it could be circling a large or huge enemy, or any number of scenarios where you are always/mostly in melee range to attack.

An archer can use a full-action ranged attack while his mount is moving, so melee attacks should also be allowed if enemies are within range during the movement.

I actually agree with the using a single melee attack because not only is your mount taking part of their "6 seconds" to move to the target and attack, but you are doing nothing during said movement toward that full attack. If a full attack also takes a huge chunk of my own "6 seconds" then it wouldn't mesh together very well.

And the concept of needing a readied action is because Spring Attack is a full round action, it isn't technically two move actions and an attack action. To mine understanding this means I cannot interrupt by using a normal standard attack unless it was a readied attack. However I've seen some people say no to a readied attack if your mount moves before the attack or even triggering a readied attack the same exact turn you make it.


Readied actions get a little strange when you try to use them on your own turn...

Quote:
The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun.
Quote:
Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it.


Kuremento wrote:
I actually agree with the using a single melee attack because not only is your mount taking part of their "6 seconds" to move to the target and attack, but you are doing nothing during said movement toward that full attack. If a full attack also takes a huge chunk of my own "6 seconds" then it wouldn't mesh together very well.

I'm not sure you understood my argument. If your mount is moving down a line of enemies, that means you can attack for the entirety of your turn. There is always somebody in melee range for you, so you are doing plenty during the movement...you are full attacking.

At least, that would be a better rule than saying you can only take a single attack because the rules are assuming there is nobody within range during the movement.

Quote:
And the concept of needing a readied action is because Spring Attack is a full round action, it isn't technically two move actions and an attack action. To mine understanding this means I cannot interrupt by using a normal standard attack unless it was a readied attack. However I've seen some people say no to a readied attack if your mount moves before the attack or even triggering a readied attack the same exact turn you make it.

? Why do you need a readied action at all? Your mount is moving during your initiative turn, you can take your single standard action attack whenever you want during that turn. You are guiding your mount as a free action.

Again, readied actions are for interrupting actions not on your turn.

Not that it really matters since you're using a standard action to get a standard action, but I don't understand why people seem to think you need a readied action to take a standard action on your own turn.


_Ozy_ wrote:
Kuremento wrote:
I actually agree with the using a single melee attack because not only is your mount taking part of their "6 seconds" to move to the target and attack, but you are doing nothing during said movement toward that full attack. If a full attack also takes a huge chunk of my own "6 seconds" then it wouldn't mesh together very well.

I'm not sure you understood my argument. If your mount is moving down a line of enemies, that means you can attack for the entirety of your turn. There is always somebody in melee range for you, so you are doing plenty during the movement...you are full attacking.

At least, that would be a better rule than saying you can only take a single attack because the rules are assuming there is nobody within range during the movement.

I understand what you mean. It would be like those action movies where you swing to the left, to the right, to the left again; each swing hits an orc. I think maybe there should be a feat or something for that. I mean there kind of is a feat for that, Mounted Blade. It lets you during a Ride-By Attack to attack an adjacent target but at a -5 to attack. It requires Qadira affinity, though, and is only a second attack with the target NEEDING to be adjacent to the first.

_Ozy_ wrote:
Kuremento wrote:
And the concept of needing a readied action is because Spring Attack is a full round action, it isn't technically two move actions and an attack action. To mine understanding this means I cannot interrupt by using a normal standard attack unless it was a readied attack. However I've seen some people say no to a readied attack if your mount moves before the attack or even triggering a readied attack the same exact turn you make it.

? Why do you need a readied action at all? Your mount is moving during your initiative turn, you can take your single standard action attack whenever you want during that turn. You are guiding your mount as a free action.

Again, readied actions are for interrupting actions not on your turn.

Not that it really matters since you're using a standard action to get a standard action, but I don't understand why people seem to think you need a readied action to take a standard action on your own turn.

This:

Java Man wrote:
Spring attack is not a charge. The problem with attacking when your mount uses spring attack is timing, you can take your action before or after your mount's action, not during. Spring attack is one action, not two moves with an attack in the middle. This is why I earlier suggested a readied action to vital strike, allowing your action to interrupt the flow of the mount's action.

I've seen arguments on not being able to use your action in the middle of someone else's without it being an immediate action.


Where on earth did you guys get the idea that you couldn't take actions while your mount was moving? It's right in the mounted combat section:

Quote:
You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

_Ozy_ wrote:

Where on earth did you guys get the idea that you couldn't take actions while your mount was moving? It's right in the mounted combat section:

Quote:
You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.

It also says:

Quote:
If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack which Vital Strike is not.


James Risner wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:

Where on earth did you guys get the idea that you couldn't take actions while your mount was moving? It's right in the mounted combat section:

Quote:
You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.

It also says:

Quote:
If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack which Vital Strike is not.

But you can make a Standard Action, right? You have yet to answer this


James Risner wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:

Where on earth did you guys get the idea that you couldn't take actions while your mount was moving? It's right in the mounted combat section:

Quote:
You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.

It also says:

Quote:
If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack which Vital Strike is not.

That doesn't actually answer the question. Where does it say you can't take actions during the mounts movement?

Furthermore, a standard action lets you make a single attack. A vital strike is a single melee attack.

Someone already asked this question, and you failed to answer: what action are you using then, if not a standard action, to make that single melee attack?

Furthermore, if you read the mounted combat section, it explicitly says if your mount is not trained in combat, you use a move action to guide it (if you make the check) and you get a standard action after the move action.

You're claiming that when your mount is trained, and you use a free action to guide it, all of a sudden you no longer can use a standard action to attack? What specific rules take away your standard action during mounted combat?

Again, you have your entire round's worth of actions available to use. You have a standard action available. So you certainly can use that standard action to make a single melee attack. What you can't do is use a full round action to make a full attack action (for melee attacks), though you could use your full round action for spell casting or ranged attacks.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Seriously?


_Ozy_ wrote:

Where on earth did you guys get the idea that you couldn't take actions while your mount was moving? It's right in the mounted combat section:

Quote:
You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.

That specifically says ranged weapon full attack. It doesn't mention using your own standard action during your mount's full round action. I haven't seen anything that tells me I can or can't but I've seen people in other posts say you can't interrupt the mount's full round action with a standard action unless specified like with the Ranged Weapon stuff.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Seriously?

Please elaborate, there are many things I can see you saying this to.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Yeah, there is a lot going on and it didn't insert at the right moment.

I'm just bemused that people are taking the wording of mounted combat as so restrictive of later options.


Kuremento wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:

Where on earth did you guys get the idea that you couldn't take actions while your mount was moving? It's right in the mounted combat section:

Quote:
You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.
That specifically says ranged weapon full attack. It doesn't mention using your own standard action during your mount's full round action. I haven't seen anything that tells me I can or can't but I've seen people in other posts say you can't interrupt the mount's full round action with a standard action unless specified like with the Ranged Weapon stuff.

Well yeah, that demonstrates that you can take actions while your mount is moving. You can also cast a spell (a standard action) while your mount is moving. So this confirms that you are actually allowed to take actions, during your turn, while your mount is moving.

In fact, the general rule is that you can take actions during your turn, so you need to provide specific rules that say that you can't. And that rule doesn't exist. At least, nobody has provided it.

So once again, why do people insist that you can't take your actions during your turn?


_Ozy_ wrote:
Kuremento wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:

Where on earth did you guys get the idea that you couldn't take actions while your mount was moving? It's right in the mounted combat section:

Quote:
You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.
That specifically says ranged weapon full attack. It doesn't mention using your own standard action during your mount's full round action. I haven't seen anything that tells me I can or can't but I've seen people in other posts say you can't interrupt the mount's full round action with a standard action unless specified like with the Ranged Weapon stuff.

Well yeah, that demonstrates that you can take actions while your mount is moving. You can also cast a spell (a standard action) while your mount is moving. So this confirms that you are actually allowed to take actions, during your turn, while your mount is moving.

In fact, the general rule is that you can take actions during your turn, so you need to provide specific rules that say that you can't. And that rule doesn't exist. At least, nobody has provided it.

So once again, why do people insist that you can't take your actions during your turn?

Something about interrupting the action of someone else. I guess you are probably right. However I think I might end up going with charge stuff anyway. Still nice to know the rules around this though considering I posted this in rules and not advice.


Kuremento wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Kuremento wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:

Where on earth did you guys get the idea that you couldn't take actions while your mount was moving? It's right in the mounted combat section:

Quote:
You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.
That specifically says ranged weapon full attack. It doesn't mention using your own standard action during your mount's full round action. I haven't seen anything that tells me I can or can't but I've seen people in other posts say you can't interrupt the mount's full round action with a standard action unless specified like with the Ranged Weapon stuff.

Well yeah, that demonstrates that you can take actions while your mount is moving. You can also cast a spell (a standard action) while your mount is moving. So this confirms that you are actually allowed to take actions, during your turn, while your mount is moving.

In fact, the general rule is that you can take actions during your turn, so you need to provide specific rules that say that you can't. And that rule doesn't exist. At least, nobody has provided it.

So once again, why do people insist that you can't take your actions during your turn?

Something about interrupting the action of someone else. I guess you are probably right. However I think I might end up going with charge stuff anyway. Still nice to know the rules around this though considering I posted this in rules and not advice.

Spirited charge + a lance is generally superior to vital strike anyway.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

We don't have a rule saying you can or can not take a standard action.

We have a rule saying you can take a ranged full attack but only one attack if your mount moves.

There are many things this could be:
1) The mount moving behaves like you moving and you can't take a full attack except a ranged one.
2) The single attack could be an attack action, in which case you can Vital Strike.

In short, there is a lot of confusion surrounding mounted combat. The exact way it works, what's allowed, and what actions it takes / allows is going to see some table variance.


James Risner wrote:

We don't have a rule saying you can or can not take a standard action.

We have a rule saying you can take a ranged full attack but only one attack if your mount moves.

There are many things this could be:
1) The mount moving behaves like you moving and you can't take a full attack except a ranged one.
2) The single attack could be an attack action, in which case you can Vital Strike.

In short, there is a lot of confusion surrounding mounted combat. The exact way it works, what's allowed, and what actions it takes / allows is going to see some table variance.

Of course we have rules that say you can take a standard action.

You can always take a standard action during your turn unless specified otherwise. The rule says you can use a free action to guide your mount, so the mount moving is not your move action.

Furthermore, as I already said, if the mount isn't trained, you use your move action to guide, and explicitly get your standard action. So why wouldn't you get your standard action for a trained mount that uses a free action to guide?

Again, you get your actions during your turn, what rule specifies otherwise?

You also didn't really answer what action that melee attack would use other than a standard action.

Finally, there's confusion about lots of the rules, thus all of the threads. The idea is to lessen the confusion when possible, not throw up your hands and say 'table variation'. The rules here actually are pretty clear.


James Risner wrote:

We don't have a rule saying you can or can not take a standard action.

We have a rule saying you can take a ranged full attack but only one attack if your mount moves.

There are many things this could be:
1) The mount moving behaves like you moving and you can't take a full attack except a ranged one.
2) The single attack could be an attack action, in which case you can Vital Strike.

In short, there is a lot of confusion surrounding mounted combat. The exact way it works, what's allowed, and what actions it takes / allows is going to see some table variance.

It's not in doubt that you can use a normal attack action, which includes using Vital Strike. Consider what's written in Mounted Skirmisher:

Mounted Skirmisher wrote:
Normal: If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only take an attack action.
Vital Strike wrote:
Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage.

The 'single attack' referred to in the mounted combat rules is a standard attack action, and thus, you can use Vital Strike with it.


Of course it also requires the animal companion to get an int bump, then spend 3 feats on dodge mobility and spring attack


Ryan Freire wrote:
Of course it also requires the animal companion to get an int bump, then spend 3 feats on dodge mobility and spring attack

All three of those are on the default list for Animal Companions.


Ryan Freire wrote:
Kuremento wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Kuremento wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:

Where on earth did you guys get the idea that you couldn't take actions while your mount was moving? It's right in the mounted combat section:

Quote:
You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.
That specifically says ranged weapon full attack. It doesn't mention using your own standard action during your mount's full round action. I haven't seen anything that tells me I can or can't but I've seen people in other posts say you can't interrupt the mount's full round action with a standard action unless specified like with the Ranged Weapon stuff.

Well yeah, that demonstrates that you can take actions while your mount is moving. You can also cast a spell (a standard action) while your mount is moving. So this confirms that you are actually allowed to take actions, during your turn, while your mount is moving.

In fact, the general rule is that you can take actions during your turn, so you need to provide specific rules that say that you can't. And that rule doesn't exist. At least, nobody has provided it.

So once again, why do people insist that you can't take your actions during your turn?

Something about interrupting the action of someone else. I guess you are probably right. However I think I might end up going with charge stuff anyway. Still nice to know the rules around this though considering I posted this in rules and not advice.
Spirited charge + a lance is generally superior to vital strike anyway.

I don't necessarily care about being the most superior. However Spirited Charge + a lance only gives you 3 times where as if you get all the Vital Strike feats you can get to a total of 4 times. Unless of course I've misread the Vital Strike feats.


If you want to Vital Strike while mounted, you could use the Gorum's Swordsmanship ability (may use Vital Strike on a charge) to charge with Spirited Charge and Vital Strike while wielding a greatsword. Ride-By Attack already makes it kind of like a Spring Attack, and you can toss Wheeling Charge in there if you really want.


Kuremento wrote:
I don't necessarily care about being the most superior. However Spirited Charge + a lance only gives you 3 times where as if you get all the Vital Strike feats you can get to a total of 4 times. Unless of course I've misread the Vital Strike feats.

Vital Strike only adds-up weapon damage dice, not anything else like strength bonus or weapon enhancement. It's strictly inferior most of the time. Furious Finish is usually the only way it's going to compete.


Kuremento wrote:
Ryan Freire wrote:
Kuremento wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Kuremento wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:

Where on earth did you guys get the idea that you couldn't take actions while your mount was moving? It's right in the mounted combat section:

Quote:
You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.
That specifically says ranged weapon full attack. It doesn't mention using your own standard action during your mount's full round action. I haven't seen anything that tells me I can or can't but I've seen people in other posts say you can't interrupt the mount's full round action with a standard action unless specified like with the Ranged Weapon stuff.

Well yeah, that demonstrates that you can take actions while your mount is moving. You can also cast a spell (a standard action) while your mount is moving. So this confirms that you are actually allowed to take actions, during your turn, while your mount is moving.

In fact, the general rule is that you can take actions during your turn, so you need to provide specific rules that say that you can't. And that rule doesn't exist. At least, nobody has provided it.

So once again, why do people insist that you can't take your actions during your turn?

Something about interrupting the action of someone else. I guess you are probably right. However I think I might end up going with charge stuff anyway. Still nice to know the rules around this though considering I posted this in rules and not advice.
Spirited charge + a lance is generally superior to vital strike anyway.
I don't necessarily care about being the most superior. However Spirited Charge + a lance only gives you 3 times where as if you get all the Vital Strike feats you can get to a total of 4 times. Unless of course I've misread the Vital Strike feats.

You haven't but its more complicated than that. For starts you cant get the X4 until level 16 at the earliest and the X3 til 11. I think spirited charge can be online by like 3 or 4, and humans can have it at level 1.

Also they don't QUITE do the same thing.

Maxed out vital strike is like this (Dice X 4) +modifiers +precision dice

Spirited charge + lance is like this (Dice + modifiers X3) + precision dice

So you're going to see more damage from the spirited charge really quickly. There is the issue of one requiring the mount and the other not, a fair consideration, but the vital strike option also requires feat investment from your companion, where spirited charge is just you.


Ryan Freire wrote:
but the vital strike option also requires feat investment from your companion, where spirited charge is just you.

Only if you want to vital strike during a 'spring attack' from the mount. A vital strike during normal mounted movement is perfectly fine too.


_Ozy_ wrote:
Ryan Freire wrote:
but the vital strike option also requires feat investment from your companion, where spirited charge is just you.
Only if you want to vital strike during a 'spring attack' from the mount. A vital strike during normal mounted movement is perfectly fine too.

I mean yeah but thats kind of the whole point of the thread.


Ryan Freire wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Ryan Freire wrote:
but the vital strike option also requires feat investment from your companion, where spirited charge is just you.
Only if you want to vital strike during a 'spring attack' from the mount. A vital strike during normal mounted movement is perfectly fine too.
I mean yeah but thats kind of the whole point of the thread.

Given the various misunderstandings, it wasn't clear to me whether the OP thought the mount needed to use Spring Attack for the rider to be able to attack an enemy during the mount's movement.

I mean, unless the mount's attack is going to be super optimized, chances are it will be relatively negligible compared to an optimized vital strike attack, so why bother?


ALLLLLLTHOUUUUUUUGH

Gorum fighting style + spirited charge with an impact greatsword and vital strike seems like it could be pretty legit. Just combine it all together

So like 10d8 + (modsX2) + precision damage at level 16 lolsplat


_Ozy_ wrote:
Ryan Freire wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Ryan Freire wrote:
but the vital strike option also requires feat investment from your companion, where spirited charge is just you.
Only if you want to vital strike during a 'spring attack' from the mount. A vital strike during normal mounted movement is perfectly fine too.
I mean yeah but thats kind of the whole point of the thread.

Given the various misunderstandings, it wasn't clear to me whether the OP thought the mount needed to use Spring Attack for the rider to be able to attack an enemy during the mount's movement.

I mean, unless the mount's attack is going to be super optimized, chances are it will be relatively negligible compared to an optimized vital strike attack, so why bother?

Just because I ask about rules doesn't mean I want to be optimized out the wazoo. I mean we are talking about a GOBLIN Samurai. Also the feat Goblin Shrieker exists, which I was planning on using it maybe.

Also my emphasis of NOT CHARGING was because I didn't want people to just say "Can't Vital Strike on Charge, FAQ."

The Gorum's thing seems cool but it clearly says Fighter or Barbarian and though I might have not clearly stated this character is a Samurai (probably Order of the Sword, no archetypes, wolf companion), that is what I plan on being for sure because even if it isn't the RAW rules, my DM agrees with Cavalier FCB working for Samurai.


you can do it as anything, fighter and barb just have alternate access though the fighter alternate access is..kind of pointless as you give up a bonus feat to replace taking the feat.

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