*side eyes tv and internet provider*
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I love my Adobe subscription since I get _ALL_ of the programs without having to pay thousands of dollars for them up front and then thousands more every few years when "Creative Suite #whatever" is released. $50 a month does it for me. In all honestly, I'm just going to pay for a year at a time starting next year. One bill, once a year. Easy.I know, right? It would be nice if LWD did something like that. Instead, they're going with the "pay for the software and pay a sub to use it" model. It would be like you paying thousands of dollars for Adobe AND paying $50/month to access it. Would that be as awesome?
-Skeld
Well it's a bit different than that. The current projection for the subscription cost is $2 a month. That is not like paying twice for a product, as the monthly fee wouldn't cover ANY content on any service.
It may be that the negative backlash from the perception of double charging will either remove the monthly, or more likely affect the pricing and credit structure of the content. Let's see what happens.
I'm not myself opposed to the projected $2/month subscription fee, except that it's per user. So our five player, one GM group is paying $12/month to use it. I'm absolutely convinced $2 per month is worth it. I'm way less convinced that $12 per month is worth it.
I can't believe we are contemplating going without HeroLab (given how incredibly useful it has been through two entire AP), but I don't think each of us will pay that. If we do use it at all, we might have one subscription to generate characters and print them out, and for the GM to use to manage the varied opposition--which probably isn't the business model LWD was hoping for.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Pretty much. Vote with your wallets, friends.
Yep, and after the disdain Lone Wolf has shown their Realm Works backers, I fully intend to do so. They've made it abundantly clear they do not want my business.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
For me it all comes down to the capability of the offline version on Herolabs Online.
The vast majority of my gaming happens in areas that have spotty or no wifi connections. If the offline version has all the capabilities that I currently use in the iPad version of HeroLabs (add new items I pick up during play, gold, spell effects, ability effects other bonuses/penalties I get during play) I will subscribe to the new product. Also I will wait until the program is fully functional and out of Beta.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I can't access Lone Wolf Development sites at all from the college campus that I work at: websites and the Hero Lab update service all fail without making a connection. I can access from the same devices from off campus or via my mobile carrier's spotty & slow cellular data service.
The campus IT Security Office says they aren't blocking Lone Wolf, and Lone Wolf says they aren't blocking the college.
Things fail at an ISP in New Jersey. Nobody at that ISP has responded to any of my messages.
That means no HL Online access for the campus RPG club.
Are you guys telling me that doesn't have unlimited cellular data plans at 10 bucks a month? Because we do, and I always thought we're two steps behind advanced nations...
Gorb,
Not only do they not have this, it is also considered a 'gated' sort of thing, and they start charging at anywhere from 10 to n GB used for going 'over' the plan limits in most data plans.
Sure, there may be one or two providers that MAY provide such a windfall, but they typically don't provide a cellular device capable of USING said data plan, which can be several hundred dollars.
Did a side-by-side comparison of phones with coworkers the other day. I pay roughly 200$ a *year* for my primitive flip-phone on a 'pay as you go' plan, including having to replace the phone every three or four years. I do not have a 'data plan' as would be used by a smart phone.
Most of my coworkers have phones that are upwards of 500$ and either pay a portion of that every month plus a monthly data fee of 100-200$ *a month*, and that's being on 'family plans'.
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
OK, apparently in Central and Eastern Europe the telecom wars resulted in a "pay 10 EUR, get unlimited everything" stalemate. Which made always online solutions a non-issue, since everyone is carrying around an unlimited bucket of Internet. I've had no idea US was so different!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My wife and I pay ~$80US a month for our cellphones, and we're limited to 5GB per month. Our home internet costs us close to $100US a month, and it has a 500GB per month limit.
'Murica.
My wife and I pay ~$80US a month for our cellphones, and we're limited to 5GB per month. Our home internet costs us close to $100US a month, and it has a 500GB per month limit.
'Murica.
We Capatalist better than anyone.
Ok, now we're having the "who was what kind of wi-fi/cell coverage" conversation. For some reason.
-Skeld
It came up because some people were assuming everyone had inexpensive unlimited internet on demand, and didn't realize that not everyone does.
It was informational, and now we can return to why the idea of an always-online version is not viable for a goodly portion of people, or alternatively...
Pretty much. Vote with your wallets, friends.Yep, and after the disdain Lone Wolf has shown their Realm Works backers, I fully intend to do so. They've made it abundantly clear they do not want my business.No kidding SOON is burned into the screen for 4 years now and counting.
Rob really needs to put someone in charge of the company and go back to coding.
Still waiting on features Rob told me were working just need to clean up the interface, when it was released to be turned on.
4 years and still waiting.
Sorry, complete opposite experience here. Realm Works has been so transformative for running campaigns that I can't believe that such a product didn't exist before now. While I believe I'll get some benefit from the Content Market, Realm Works has been one of the greatest RPG investments I've ever made.
|
Ok, now we're having the "who was what kind of wi-fi/cell coverage" conversation. For some reason.
-Skeld
It came up because some people were assuming everyone had inexpensive unlimited internet on demand, and didn't realize that not everyone does.
It was informational, and now we can return to why the idea of an always-online version is not viable for a goodly portion of people, or alternatively...
It would be quicker, easier, and entirely accurate to just say, "It's Gorbacz's fault."
-Skeld
PS: My post you replied to was tongue-in-cheek. ;)
|
|
Up here in Canada our government regulates things (for our own good, of course) so there is relatively little competition and we essentially have a Tri-opoly (with only 2 of the services working in any particular geography).
And thats in the cities.
Rural its even worse :-(
Speak for yourself. In Toronto, I have unlimited text, calling and data for $25 a month via Chatr (grandfathered in from Mobilicity - never expiring contract!)
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
As we stated in the FAQ, Hero Lab Online caches everything locally and only transmits the data that has changed, allowing us to be very conservative in how much data we’re actually consuming. Use of Hero Lab Online will typically consume less data over the course of a game than browsing your favorite websites for a few minutes, making it extremely realistic to use via mobile connections if you ever have the need.
You will be able to retain your up to 5 licenses for multiple devices and HLO access really will be around 2 dollars a month. We've no intention of charging a high price for it at any point in the future. :)
Open Beta sign-up links will be going out in our newsletter soon and you'll be able to see and play with HLO in a few weeks. We're excited to hear your feedback!
I know it's something new, and maybe a little scary, but I'd love if you'd give it a chance and provide feedback to help us make it even more awesome!
BJ
Open Beta sign-up links will be going out in our newsletter soon and you'll be able to see and play with HLO in a few weeks. We're excited to hear your feedback!
Thanks for the update BJ. Am I correct in thinking that the beta won’t be live until late Oct, or am I be too literal?
Would it be possible to confirm the core feature set you plan to have in the beta vs formal release?
If I had the technology and capital for it, I would.
Thank you for the feedback and I hope it is a successful Beta with limited bugs, and that it works out for the best.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
From what I understand the reason for the online requirement is because ship combat will require an online interface. I am guessing because there is only one ship, and everyone can have access to it. However, not everyone uses HL to run combat. Those who just use it to build characters, will not pay for this.
As an example using Pathfinder, if I try to use HL to add and subtract bonuses it would take me much longer than if I do that math in my head. That is why I don't use HL at gametime. Another option is to precalcuate certain bonuses so I can avoid doing any math at all.
This works well for smiting paladins, and raging barbarians.
I don't have to list every possible combination in advance because in most games certain ones will be common You have those done in advance. Any others just add on as needed.
|
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16
|
Ship Combat is a great reason to go online but it's not the only one!
As seen in our FAQ here are few more ideas of what will eventually be possible HLO. :)
Bringing Hero Lab to an online environment allows us to support a diverse range of devices all over the world! It also has a plethora of added benefits that we simply cannot provide in desktop software. We love Hero Lab Classic just as much as you do, but to provide many of the awesome features our consumers want, we must be in a connected environment with a central server to manage things.
Most of the new capabilities we’ll be pursuing with Hero Lab Online are simply not possible in Hero Lab Classic. Starship combat involving the whole party, for example, would be impossible to manage in the current incarnation of Hero Lab.
Additionally, party loot management, interaction between players and GMs, and player-to-player collaboration are not possible in Hero Lab Classic (e.g. applying buffs, damage, effects, conditions etc.). Hero Lab Online will provide a robust, interactive experience, centered around these capabilities, that everyone can enjoy!
Online Play is a core objective for Hero Lab Online. Having a central server orchestrate everything means that every device can “talk” to each other. Not like a chat system but items like the GM assigning damage for a fireball to four of the five PCs caught within it, with one taking half damage (save made) and another taking none (save made with Evasion). Or a player hitting an Orc that’s run by the GM and assigning 8 damage to it. With the fireball, the player simply acknowledges the damage received. With the Orc, the GM acknowledges the damage. [Note: Examples use Pathfinder, as that game system is by far the most popular among our users, but the concepts apply to any game system.]
Let’s take this a step further. The bard buffs the entire party (e.g. Inspire Courage) and applies that buff to everyone. There’s no need for each player to individually add and configure the buff on their PC. The wizard buffs a few members of the party (e.g. Haste) and chooses which PCs gain that buff. Again, there’s no need to individually add and configure the buff on each PC. Now the bard switches to a different song. Everybody gets swapped over with the new buff instantly. No need for each player to reconfigure things.
The same logic applies to conditions and effects. The wizard casts a spell that causes a group of creatures to be Dazed, so he designates them appropriately and the GM simply confirms them. Another PC uses an ability to trip a creature, assigning it the Prone condition. The GM has a creature use an ability to Stun a PC. It all works smoothly and streamlines the experience for all involved, letting everyone focus more on the game than the fiddly details.
Party loot is another great opportunity here. How does your group currently manage all the extra stuff they’ve acquired? Imagine having a simple repository where that’s all tracked. All the players/PCs can view it. At the end of an encounter, everything the party finds goes into the “stash”. Gear can then be assigned from the stash to individual PCs, and PCs can put stuff back into the stash. Let’s say the party finds a +2 Longsword that gets assigned to the Fighter. Now the +1 Longsword that the Fighter used to have can be assigned to a different PC that is still using a non-magical weapon. With a non-online version of Hero Lab, the stash has to be managed by a single person, and each assignment of gear must be manually handled by each player or the GM. That’s all readily doable for a simple +1 weapon. But what if the gear involved is more complex and needs to be constructed properly by each user? That gets to be quite a hassle. And what if the gear is such that only certain aspects of the item have been revealed by the GM? That’s entirely possible with the online model and utterly impossible without the central server.
Starfinder introduces the concept of a communal starship for the party. That can be easily shared with an online model. And Starfinder combat has different PCs taking on different roles on the ship. With the online model, there are many opportunities to do things that simply can’t be done with a disconnected desktop model.
We have a variety of other new features planned as well, but this should give you a sense of the opportunities that exist with Hero Lab Online and that we’re planning to bring to life within the product.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Starfinder introduces the concept of a communal starship for the party.Pathfinder had communal ships, kingdoms, caravans, underground organizations, etc.
Starfinder hasn’t “introduced”any such thing.
Pathfinder had loot splits, fireballs, etc.
If you want to change business models, that’s really fine, I just disagree, and really, I don’t believe, the reasons you are saying you’re doing it.
Just say, “we think we’ll make more money using this new method of doing business.” At that point, I would fully get it.
It was incorrectly worded but I think her point was that HeroLab did not do a good job of managing things like communal ships, etc, nor of things like loot splits, fireballs, etc., but HeroLab Online is intended to do so.
Of course they existed before Starfinder. They existed before PATHFINDER.
But I am eager to have a program that handles them natively as part of the character management itself. When I was running Skull & Shackles, before we began Starfinder, it was a real chore to manage 'loot that is on the ship that we can grab before rowing ashore' vs "my loot that I have on my person, or in my sea chest'
Applying buffs and the like was often kind of distracting, as each player had to find it on their own app and apply it correctly, and remember to turn it off (oh, how many times that happened).
I'm not saying that those types of things are worth it to you, or will be worth it to everyone, but they are definitely worth it to some portion of the potential audience. I'm not even sure that the subscription will be worth it for every member of my group, which would make the subscription not really worth it for ANYONE in the group. But I do think that it is a markedly different kind of software with a different core operation that might be attractive.
My biggest frustration is that we are playing this game NOW and we saw a preview of the engine at Gen Con, with an expected release sometime in September. I'm not saying LWD screwed up, or made any promises (they were clear that was a speculative date). I'm just really disappointed that we went from USING HeroLab in Pathfinder to not being able to use it in Starfinder.
Any update on this? I understand the beta should have been released to those who signed up. Any reviews or firsthand details?
|
|
Any update on this? I understand the beta should have been released to those who signed up. Any reviews or firsthand details?I got the email, but have apparently forgotten what password I entered. Waiting for a response from support, since they currently have no password reset facility for HLO.
You're better off than I am. Still haven't gotten the mail.
Fortunately PCGen is now pretty functional :-)
I've just discovered this and signed up for the Beta. I hope the wait time to get an email back is less than forever ;)
Agreed that PCGen ought to keep me occupied to then.
Anyone here who's given the Beta a spin yet?
Ship Combat is a great reason to go online but it's not the only one!
As seen in our FAQ here are few more ideas of what will eventually be possible HLO. :)
Thank you for that explanation, some of those features could actually be convenient and I can see why they need an on line interface. Of course I have managed quite well without them but this explanation has at least made me consider looking at the features
I'm in the beta too and I love it so far.
At the moment it's purely a character creator, with a play tab to see stats and do dice rolls etc.
In this regard I'm already switching over my group of noob players to use it as it makes char creation, levelling and equipment tracking so much faster and easier.
As to be expected with any beta there are a host of small issues, some functional, some with regards to stability and responsiveness. However this is normal for any software project and I imagine most will be resolved before exiting beta.
Beyond fixes the upcoming feature list looks great with ship and party management being my most wanted.
I forgot my password and There is no ability to reset. Looking at the forums the developers are being rude to people questioning why there is no reset password option
Oh, hey, how is the Beta testing going?
Oh, hey, how is the Beta testing going?
I've been using HLO for a few weeks and like it a lot. Some bugs for sure but for the most parts it's working nicely :) 99% sure I'm going to subscribe when it releases.
Hm. Is it still possible to get in on this beta? Are any game systems other than Starfinder available? (I'm playing around with Shadowrun in HLC right now). I suppose I could check the web site, but I'm here, so... :-)