Wands. Wands, wands, wands, wands, wands.
Sliced bread is pretty convenient, and tattoo chamber seems very useful. It is like a free Glove of Storing which doesn't take up any space and also has an extra super awesome power for wands.
#1 - You don't need a hand free to use a wand. This could be very nice if you're doing TWF, use a shield, or maybe like metamagic rods.
#2 - You save a Move action compared to pulling the wand out.
#3 - You don't have to drop your wand or spend a Move action putting it away when you're done with it.
#4 - You can switch between multiple wands without any effort.
#5 - You could also get a metamagic rod, potion, or other critical item in hand as a swift action.
Having a "magic tattoo" also just seems pretty cool.
I love it mechanically and thematically. :)
like why does everyone seem to think it's the best thing since sliced bread?
Other than the fact that you can pull sliced bread out of your tattoo?
Here is the talent:
Vigilante (Cabalist) Talents:
The cabalist can magically absorb items through a tattoo on his hand or wrist and easily retrieve them or activate their magical abilities without making them manifest. The items seemingly disappear into the tattoo, but actually enter an extradimensional space that the cabalist can access via the tattoo. Stowing an item in this way requires a full-round action, and the space can store one item plus one additional item per 3 vigilante levels he has. These items must be items the cabalist can hold in one hand. Retrieving a stowed item requires mentally activating the tattoo as a swift action. The item appears in the cabalist’s hand, so worn items must still be donned to gain their benefits. The cabalist can also activate any spell-trigger abilities of a stored item as though he were wielding the item, producing the magic effect from his tattoo rather than from the item. If the cabalist dies while items are within his tattoo chamber, those items fade into existence within 5 feet of the corpse.
In addition to wands (at 1 spell per), staves also work (at multiple spells per). Staves allow more versatility for the limited number of items stored.
/cevah
Hmm... all this would be far more impressive if spring loaded wrist sheaths weren't a thing.
I'm not saying that Tattoo chamber is bad. I just don't get the hype.
Well, spring-loaded wrist sheaths take swift actions, aye? And when you no longer need the wand, do you just drop it where it can be stolen or stomped on or etc.?
A magic tattoo gives you the ability to store several items in it without any real difficulty, which protects them from sundering and from being stolen. It also allows you to cast any of them without actually holding them. Also, it doesn't eat your swift action, and just how many wrist sheaths can you realistically have on each arm?
It's plenty useful. It's not a game-defining ability, but it's definitely cool as can be.
It would be much more useful if it wasn't attached to the vigilante.Hmm... all this would be far more impressive if spring loaded wrist sheaths weren't a thing.
I'm not saying that Tattoo chamber is bad. I just don't get the hype.
I mean, the Vigilante isn't HORRIBLE, but your point stands.
I mean, the Vigilante isn't HORRIBLE, but your point stands.
The cool stuff the vigilante gets is the reason to play the class, pretty much. If you made that cool stuff available to other classes, you'd remove the entire reason to play a vigilante.
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It would be much more useful if it wasn't attached to the vigilante.Hmm... all this would be far more impressive if spring loaded wrist sheaths weren't a thing.
I'm not saying that Tattoo chamber is bad. I just don't get the hype.
Divine Grace would be much more useful if it weren't attached to Paladin, while we're at it.
And Vigilante sure as hell works *amazingly* as a full 20 level class.
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Divine Grace would be much more useful if it weren't attached to Paladin, while we're at it.It would be much more useful if it wasn't attached to the vigilante.Hmm... all this would be far more impressive if spring loaded wrist sheaths weren't a thing.
I'm not saying that Tattoo chamber is bad. I just don't get the hype.
9th-Level Arcane Spellcasting would be much more useful if it weren't attached to the wizard.
Divine Grace would be much more useful if it weren't attached to Paladin, while we're at it.It would be much more useful if it wasn't attached to the vigilante.Hmm... all this would be far more impressive if spring loaded wrist sheaths weren't a thing.
I'm not saying that Tattoo chamber is bad. I just don't get the hype.
Divine Grace is available by means of two different spells as well as the capstone of a few Oracle mysteries.
Also Paladin 2 is not a bad dip for a variety of different classes and the Paladin works pretty well as a straight full 20 level class. Not so sure you can say the same for the vigilante.
Vigilante works great for a full 20 levels. Decently skilled 6/9 caster with more social bonuses than a Bard, a better spell list (for Warlock at least), prepared casting, martial weapon proficiency, and some extra combat and/or utility abilities. I'm not sure what's missing.
On the matter of the ability being tied to one class, there are spells and items that do similar things, just like with Divine Grace.
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I'm not sure what's missing.
I think the biggest problem people have with the class is the whole "dual identity/pretending to be someone else" part of the fluff.
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I'm not sure what's missing.I think the biggest problem people have with the class is the whole "dual identity/pretending to be someone else" part of the fluff.
In my opinion, that's the best part of it. It's what makes it utterly iconic and forces you to flavour it out if you want to play it to its full.
Sure, it makes adventuring a little hard on occasion, but there's no reason you can't be Robin Hood all day and all night until you reach a town and become Robert Fitzooth of Locksley, Earl of Huntingdon just in time to hobnob with the local posh folk.
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I think the biggest problem people have with the class is the whole "dual identity/pretending to be someone else" part of the fluff.In my opinion, that's the best part of it. It's what makes it utterly iconic and forces you to flavour it out if you want to play it to its full.
Meanwhile, I consider it to be ill thought through pandering to the superhero hype.
The secret identity stuff makes no sense to exists. First, the part where superheroes are in their civilian identity is the part that we don't normally play out in Pathfinder (downtime, basically). The secret identity exists to ground the characters, because being Batman 24/7 drives you crazy (Yes, he tried that. Yes, he got crazy.). And second, whole secret identity thing doesn't work at all unless it's either a solo campaign, or every single member of the party is a Vigilante because if Bruce Wayne hangs around with the entire Justice League sans Batman, even someone with an Int score of 5 will make the connection.
there's no reason you can't be Robin Hood all day and all night until you reach a town and become Robert Fitzooth of Locksley, Earl of Huntingdon just in time to hobnob with the local posh folk.
I don't need a whole primary class feature for that. Also, see my point #2 above - while the GM plays out Robert Fitzooth hobnobbing with the local posh folk, the other Players will sit around bored because their characters have to wait outside. I mean, it's ok as a short episode once in a blue moon when you need to infiltrate something, you can just ignore that whole double identity thing the rest of the time. That's why the class is fine.
I feel though that though the Vigilante absolutely has a place in Pathfinder fluffwise (arguably more than the Gunslinger) even since the model for things like the modern superhero are Sir Percy Blakeney/the Scarlet Pimpernel and Edmund Dantès/Le Comte de Monte-Cristo.
You should have always been able to play that kind of character in Pathfinder, it just so happens that the mechanics that enable you to also enable you to try to build Batman. This is sort of like how the mechanics that enable you to play a Roland Deschain type also open you up to basically every iconic Western character too. So it goes.
The idea of other players becoming bored during RP segments is certainly a danger, but I think it exists even without the Vigilante. One DM generally plays all of the NPCs, and it can sometimes be difficult to break RP up into smaller segments like combat rounds so that "everybody gets a turn". Anyhow, if the other PCs are trapped outside of the posh party they could socialize with the servants and other NPCs or even have an on site adventure while the high and mighty are distracted. This seems like an opportunity as much as an obstacle.
As an aside, I wonder if it might not be fun to set up certain social encounters where at least some of the players are given NPC roles with a little information on how to play them, goals, etc. Certain NPCs would know a few things which you could find out with the proper roleplaying and perhaps some skill checks.
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The idea of other players becoming bored during RP segments is certainly a danger, but I think it exists even without the Vigilante.
It's not RP segments itself, it's RP segments with a split party that's the problem.
Anyhow, if the other PCs are trapped outside of the posh party they could socialize with the servants and other NPCs or even have an on site adventure while the high and mighty are distracted.
And while they are doing that, the Vigilante is put on hold because the GM can't possibly focus on both at the same time, so now he's bored. It's excactly the same problem as every split party situation, be it scouting, trapped in seperate dungeons, or even fighting to different battles.
Also, did you notice that the whole "hobnobbing with the posh folk" only works because the character is conveniently the Earl of Huntingdon? Let me guess, the character recieved the Nobel Peace Prize, the Vulcan Order of Gallantry, and the Tralfamadorian Order of Good Guyhood, too?
The whole secret identity thing (and especially the Renown chain of social talents) only works in a game if it steals the spotlight. I just think that spotlight stealing, party splitting, and creating a Mary Sue should not be mandatory to make class features work.
Gonna have to disagree with you here. Batman dresses up as Bruce Wayne when he needs to do normal civilian things.
Ok, first, the public Bruce Wayne is not really a civilian identity, it's an act, a disguise. You wouldn't need a class feature for that. We had disguises in the CRB. Second, he only uses the Bruce Wayne identity to use it's well-known billionaire status. Should every Vigilante be a well-known billionaire?
No one gets together for a game of Pathfinder to play Clark Kent at the Daily Planet (solo campaigns notwithstanding). Most of the time, Pathfinder characters are adventurers - they aren't with their families and don't need to hide being Robin for fear of being sent to boarding school. People won't recognize them on the streets because the setting has next to no visual media.
What you're basically saying is that the Vigilante will not work in every game, sure. But that's basically true about every other class. A wizard or a sorcerer will not work in a game that's low-magic. A Cleric or a Warpriest will not work in a game where the premise is "the gods have abandoned us". A druid is unlikely to work in a game set entirely in outer space.
So sure, you shouldn't expect to be able to play a Vigilante in any game, but that's not really a problem with the class.
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What you're basically saying is that the Vigilante will not work in every game
No, not at all. What I'm saying is that the main advertised class feature of the Vigilante does not properly work in combination with how the game is generally played.
Low magic is not the default game/setting. "the gods have abandoned us" is not the default game/setting. A group of adventurers is.
If every other class is designed for a party of adventurers, and one class is designed for a solo campaign that's set in just one town, then there is very much a problem with the class.
Thankfully, it is no problem to play a Vigilante in a regular campaign, just don't expect dual identity to be a meaningful class feature. The class doesn't need it, it's basically a minor class feature (a bonus to disguise). If only the class wouldn't scream "YOU CAN BE BATMAN! HERE, HAVE A TALENT TO BE THE HERO OF GOTHAM! AND HERE'S YOUR BATCAVE!"
I think that people can get plenty bored during RP even without a split party. I see this in action quite a lot since when dealing with a particular NPC you'll often have only a few useful lines of inquiry, and a single PC (perhaps the one with the best Diplomacy modifier or perhaps the one played by the most talkative player) is likely to ask most of the questions. I've seen this happen many times. You can also have "split roleplaying" even if all the PCs are "hobnobbing" at the same party since if one player wants to talk to the Duke and another wants to talk to the Admiral they'll still have to "wait their turn" since there's only one DM to play both NPCs.
I guess if the DM just sits there doing RP with Bruce Wayne for half an hour while everybody else sits and waits that really would be boring, but if the group in question can't stand to wait 2 minutes while the DM switches between conversations or scenes I think they'd be likely to get bored waiting for their turn in combat too. Splitting the party for combat encounters needs to be handled carefully since it could be dangerous. Splitting them for social situations could actually give people more chances to have direct interactions with an NPC and maybe even be the one to make some important progress on whatever RP goals the PCs are working on.
The idea of the Vigilante distracting folks at a social event of some sort while other parts of the team work on other things in the background also seems like it would create the potential for stories which more closely resemble movies, TV shows, and comic books which many players and DMs enjoy (presumably because they're good stories). The secret identity is a classic trope. Deciding it is impractical for use in games seems a little lazy to me. Clearly you think it seems a little silly, but perceptions can vary, and some people like silly.
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The thing is, Pathfinder is designed so that you can play almost any campaign you want. It has Sci-Fi, it has WWII, it has Low Fantasy and High Fantasy, it has Occult, it has Horror, it has Superheroes and Modern Warfare. I think they've been remarkably clever to have the Vigilante fit into a regular adventuring party as well as it does, and they've packed the archetypes so full with so many ways to be anything but a classic "Superhero". Sure there's an archetype that is explicitly just Spiderman or Hawkman, but there are also options to be more Robin Hood or Dread Pirate Roberts or Susan Sto-Helit.
And if your GM is letting the Vigilante's social identity hog ALL of the social spotlight, then Robert Fitzooth must have misplaced his entourage when he went a-hobnobbing and that GM maybe wouldn't be running very good social interactions anyway.
There are also options to have your social identity be completely unknown, y'know. It just so happens that vigilantes in fiction tend to be pretty high-society.
(Sorry for the super-late reply; real life got suuuper hectic.)