Emerald spire difficulty for party of six


GM Discussion

4/5

In the Emerald Spire guide it states that it is designed for a party of four adventures. For six or players you should add additional monsters to increase the difficulty accordingly. How are GM's handling this with the standard PFS group size of six adventurers since we're not supposed to stray off script in society games?

Should I bump them up to a harder tier? Instead of using the first floor which is 1-2, should I go to floor 2 which is 1-3 or floor 3 which is 2-4?

Shadow Lodge 5/5

I've seen level one chew up and spit out 6-player groups of level 1's.

Most tables just run the players through it.

You also cannot kick up level 1 characters into a tier 2-4 floor (you must be level 2 to enter, and no higher than 4).

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

I've run the entirety of Emerald Spire and though the levels vary, it is in general punishingly difficult for a party of four.

4/5

I'm sorry, I should have clarified. They are six characters, all level 2.

Dark Archive 1/5

It will matter how good the party is. In our well optimized party of 6 things got real hairy a handful of times and a few deaths happened. If you start noticing fights are to easy, I'd recommend remembering that the spire is all close quarters, maybe they fight two encounters at once.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

The Rising Phoenix wrote:
I'm sorry, I should have clarified. They are six characters, all level 2.

Are you just looking for one adventure to run them through or are you planning to do the entire Spire?

If it's just one, I'd say go ahead and do Level 2.

If you want to do the whole Spire I would strongly encourage the players to stay at the bottom of the allowed level range for each floor (via strategic use of slow-tracking). I ran it for a party of six (same party, entire Spire) and there were really only 3-4 fights that challenged the party. Only two deaths total and both of those were player-caused. Six is just not much of a challenge.

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Netherlands

My party just needs to clear lvl 16.
Ive limited to 4 players as they wanted to go trough the whole thing.

And as they had a set party they could really build for it. I am happy I limited to four as they managed to pull of some serious cheese with what is allowed in PFS.

5/5 *****

I would not run Spire for more than 4 players, nor most other modules.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

andreww wrote:
I would not run Spire for more than 4 players, nor most other modules.

I agree - Spire does not contain this particular why, but my reasoning is due to the nature of modules. They're designed to span multiple levels, so by the time you meet the big end boss, your character that is smack in the middle of the tiering, isn't quite where he/she was expected to be at the end boss.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/5 **

Even in Core it will be a ROTFLSTOMP with 5 or 6 players. Voice of experience since we just finished it in Core with 6 players (not all showing up for all sessins)

The Exchange 3/5

I wouldn't recommend more than 4 players.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

In my experience the dungeon won't really seriously threaten a TPK versus a party of 6, but it's more than dangerous enough to kill people with a lucky crit or some poor PC tactics. I'd run 6 no problem for some parties and for some of the optimizers I'd cap it at 4. Figure out which category your group is closest to, IMO.

Scarab Sages 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Captain, Isles—Online

as there is no campaign mode - you cannot change or add any monsters.

5 or more PFS players will stomp through the higher levels in quick order without breaking a sweat. for an enjoyable challenge for the players and a satisfying GM experience limit the game to 4 players.

I ran for 5 players, and by about level 10 there was no challenge from even the hardest monster.

Silver Crusade 4/5

We're currently crushing emerald spire with 6, so if you can I'd go with 4 players. If that's not an option keeping everyone a level behind will add some extra challenge.

If everyone is currently at 3xp and you want to play all 16 floors then you'll want to slow track 4 more floors than recommended, 2 to bring them in line with the expected level, and another 2 to put them 1 level behind.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

Yeah, when I GMed the Spire I started with a group of six local PFS players. I figured with a schedule of one session every other week it would take us over half a year to finish. So six would give us a cushion for the the inevitable loss of players over that time period.

Nope. The whole group made it all the way through. Not a particularly optimized group but they didn't have to be for the Spire. By the last level they ranged from 11-13 depending on how much they slow-tracked. The 13s were definitely too much for the NPCs.

Mind you, having the same group made for a lot of fun roleplaying. Tales of "Ollie and the Mop" still get mentioned.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The PFS group I'm running now started with six, and the early levels were pretty easy until the sixth player had to bail. The next couple of levels (with five PCs) were a little harder; IIRC, the mudlord was the first thing that gave them major heartburn. Currently they're on the eighth level with a fairly optimized party of four, and doing adequately despite the ninja having taken a bunch of STR damage from serpentfolk poison.

4/5

I ran with a table of six relatively optimized characters. They only had problems when people had to miss, really. My favorite table as a GM by far was Tomb of Yarrix, which is the first time I've had module content cause a party to run away from the dungeon.

Expect a table of six to absolutely rickroll the content. Depending on the 5, that could be hit or miss. A table of 4 should be reasonably challenged.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Our party consisting of a dwarf unbreakable, an elven cardcaster, a dragon disciple skald and my (melee) nagaji lifeacle had some very decent challenges throughout, but after the aforementioned Tomb of Yarrix we were so above the curve in gear that the difficulty just petered out.

We had deaths on levels 3, 5 and 11, btw.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/55/55/5 *

I run it for 2 groups 1 level at the beginning of the month. A group of 6 and a group of 4.

Group of 4
TPK level 2
1 death level 6

Group of 6
1 death level 2
2 deaths level 4
1 death level 6

Both of level 6 most of the parties ran and left a player behind and trapped.

So far level 6 is as far as we have played.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Agent, Australia—QLD—Brisbane

I've run the first level several times now, and the challenge level can vary widely. I've had one technical TPK (the last survivor ran the hell away), and one where the group stomped over the bad guys with no trouble at all. I believe both were groups of 6.

Later levels can also vary widely.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If you don't have combat-oriented PCs with darkvision, the first level is going to be really tough.

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Netherlands

Woah, what did they do in Godhome to get themselves killed?

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

Tineke Bolleman wrote:
Woah, what did they do in Godhome to get themselves killed?

Godhome Spoilers:
Attacking the Godbox or attempting to leave the level without combat or sacrifice via breaking through the slab over the stairs triggers Animated Objects. Which are definitely not pushovers, especially if you are only level 3.

I have had a group trigger the statue watching the stairs and they barely escaped without a death. Construct traits, hardness, and grab are not fun to deal with at those levels.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Godhome Response:
Was this PFS? The recommended advancement pace puts a party at 5th level going in, which definitely enhances survivability.

Dark Archive 1/5

Going to talk about many floors and encounters so just tagging my whole comment.

Spoiler:
IMO there are a few rooms in the spire that are just ultra deadly. You here about people getting crit in lv 1, or dying in godhome. Personally I think the confusion room in like level 6 or something is just brutal, an enemy choosing your confusion rolls can lead to quick tpk's. Most of the struggles I ran into in the spire were isolated enemies, where is was oh s&&@ who has a lawful piercing weapon? Noone? and we have an archer and a monk as are damage dealers. cool so that like 20-15,17-15,20-15,16-15. Oh cool the barbed devil takes 13 and you take 8d6. Scaling also depends on your DM. So many critters have poition/spells and when everything has full buffs fights get a lot harder.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

John Woodford wrote:

Godhome

Was this PFS? The recommended advancement pace puts a party at 5th level going in, which definitely enhances survivability.

4th level. (It's the 4th level of the Spire so if you go normal progression through the first 3 you will start Godhome at 4th level.)

I don't know the details of this particular playthrough, just answering Tineke's question about what could have caused deaths in Godhome. If I (the GM) hadn't rolled a natural 1 I probably would have killed a 4th level character one of the times I ran it.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Agent, Australia—QLD—Brisbane

On Godhome...:

I had a group get through the entire level without a real fight, then negotiate with the Godbox real quick, and were on the way out, when one played decided to test out hurting something in the room...boom, almost TPK from the whole level attacking them here.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/55/55/5 *

Michael Clarke wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Yeah knowledge of a couple of players in my emerald spire games and their murder vagrant ways. They were upset about not having combat so they attacked something they shouldn't of have

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Netherlands

Kevin Willis wrote:
Tineke Bolleman wrote:
Woah, what did they do in Godhome to get themselves killed?
** spoiler omitted **

Oh yeah, it has been a while since I rean Spire so I forgot about those.

4/5

My main group through the spire only really had issues when the bard didn't show up. Tomb of Yarrix (floor 11) was rough for them because of that, especially the Seugathi and Bebelith rooms. I don't know that I had any kills, but I certainly had some VERY close calls as the players smartly retreated. This floor was known as "the floor where the cavalier never got to make an attack roll."

I ran a Core table of 4 through the first 7 levels, as well. I finally got a kill via the naga there, who was given ample time to buff because one of the PCs opened the door, looked in, and closed it while the rest of the party was dealing with the serpentfolk cleric. Invis + Displacement + Expeditious Retreat + Shield + Cat's Grace + Silent Image and a crapload of lightning bolts later, the druid was dead and his snake companion was nearly dead. It was a good time.

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