So, finally i came back to the table to play.
GM decided to "resurrect" my character in a flavourful way: he's now serving an homemade evil deity (i did create in my background, not for this pourpose, but i always appreciate initiative!) so i would change his spells to fit more the dark side he reached.
Well, i could use some help in spells choice.
Character level: 12th (2 mythic things, i don't know the name of those)
Class: Sorcerer
Race: Gnome
Help will be appreciated!
-.Useless.-
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Any more detail about the deity? And do you have any bloodline, archetype, feats or general type of sorcerer (e.g. blaster, battlefield controller, enchanter, sneaky bastard) that are defined already?
The deity is some kind of Shoggot-like creature who lives in a cave, in the dark, and her will is to destroy a famous gnome city and so bring chaos among gnomes!
Infernal Bloodline (which i could tell i don't like honestly, but i picked it just to fit more the background, even if in my opinion it doesn't cuz i never used the bloodline power and i don't like the spells given by).
In any case i think i could change many things without any problems.
Feats: Spell Focus [Conjuration], Spell Focus+ [Conjuration], Spell Resistance, Spell Resistance +. Maybe i've some other but i can't remember right now.
Archetypes: None
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
May I recommend becoming a professional binder. You have already gotten past the point where its painful. Your charisma based and already have a focus in conjuration spells. This can add a ton of power and versatility not to mention the crazy amount of Rp involved. Douglas Muir(DMDM) has excellent guides you can look up on the Diabolist PRC and planar binding in general. Relevant feat Augment Calling you already meet the requirements for. Diabolist is a very powerful PRC that you will definitely want to use its class features and it has almost no entry requirements at this point
Spells
Lv3 Magic circle against evil
Lv4 Dimensional anchor
lv6 Planar binding
Other than that there are a ton of great conjuration spells. Sorcerers want mainly versatile spells so I will focus on those
lv1 Mount, Snowball, Enlarge Person, Keep Watch
lv2 Glitterdust, Create Pit, Summon CacoDaemon, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Stone Discus
lv3 Haste, Dispel Magic, Resist Energy Communal, Fireball
lv4 Enervation, Dimension door, Emergency Force Sphere, Black Tentacles
lv5 Overland Flight, Wall of Stone, Telekinesis,
lv6 Form of the Alien Dragon I, Cold Ice Strike
Interesting advice!
Lets say i forgot to say before that we've a Paladin and a Cleric of Sarenrae, does those consist in an issue for the Diabolist class? Where i can find more about Douglas Muir job?
In any case i think i could change most of the PC if wanted, so the conjuration focus doesn't involve a limit.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
OK, so you don't like spells like scorching ray (so low dexterity?) or suggestion, and you really like conjuration-type area effects. I can work with that.
If you can switch bloodlines I think Arcane has a lot of merit for you. It has good general purpose bloodline spells and it helps metamagic. In particular Persistent Spell is going to be useful to you to keep lower level spells relevant. If you can fit it in get Quicken Spell too.
Dastis's suggestion of planar binding has a lot of merit. Binding demons and devils to your will is in line with your darker feel, and its usually useful to have bodies between you and the enemy. You can also send them out as spies etc. Alternately you could get Magic Circle vs. Good and make good outsiders work for you - this might be more acceptable if you're still hanging out with the good guys despite your 'darker' feel.
Here's a suggested spell list assuming the Arcane bloodline & use of planar binding.
6) Planar Binding
5) Overland Flight (bloodline), Hungry Pit, Cloudkill
4) Dimension Door (bloodline), Confusion (bonus), Dimensional Anchor, Greater Invisibility, Contingent Scroll
3) Dispel Magic (bloodline), Magic Circle vs. Evil, Waves of Blood, Haste, Blacklight
2) Invisibility (bloodline), Glitterdust, Disguise Other, Whispering Wind, Rope Trick, Resist Energy
1) Identify (bloodline), Sure Casting, Shield, Mage Armor, Unseen Servant, Infernal Healing
Edit: Here's DMDMs guide to planar binding. You should be able to find his other guides by searching for DMDM in this forum, using the forum search tool.
Also, yes being a diabolist will be an issue with a paladin around. You don't absolutely need it for planar binding so skip that PrC.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Seems to me like you have to go lovecraftian on this.
Spells messing with people's sanity, necromancy and outsider summons are surely the tasteful way to go.
Think Confusion, Phobia, Feeblemind, Suffocation, Horricfic doubles, Vengeful Outrage, Black tentacles, Phantasmal putrefaction, Fear, Enervation, Audiovisual hallucination, Blindness/deafness, Hungry earth, Caustic blood, Banshee blast, Acid pit,
Thank you all for the awesome advices!
Arcane Bloodline seems providing the most cool spells, in any case i'm considering to add the ones Boloo wrote, to keep the flavour.
About Planar Binding, i like it very much, also could provide (either the called outsider decide to help or break free) to generate chaos wherever.
Some questions tho:
1)Is binding an evil act? I mean the Paladin could decide to take my skin for doing that?
2)What kind of offers i could propose to the "binded" outsider?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Horrific Doubles would be a good substitute for Greater Invis., but I think a bunch of those spells are pretty Lovecraftian already - cloudkill could be the atmosphere of strange worlds conjured here, a hungry pit is some extension of your goddesses cave, confusion, waves of blood and blacklight could all be nightmarish if used that way. Contingent scroll, glitterdust and rope trick could all be swapped out if you want more creepy spells - but they are useful.
Edit: binding isn't necessarily evil. You're cutting a deal with the bound outsider, but they're under duress. If you're binding good outsiders (to avoid the paladin wanting to smite them) you might offer certain good acts, ask them if they want anything in particular, or just offer cash.
Ok nice so i will use binding i think... examples of services i can require?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
There are no real limits, just what you're willing to pay for or force them into.
"Guard me while I go on this adventure."
"Spy on the king for the next 24 hours then report back. Don't get caught by any of his allies, traps or servants."
"Read and agree to this contract. Clauses 8.1a and 9.5 are especially important."
Edit: there are some suggestions for payments or other bonuses here.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So a Lovecraftian demonologist type?
If you want to change your bloodline for theme, consider Aberrant bloodline to reflect your "otherworldly tainted nature"
Acid Ray (retractable second tongue, ejaculates a glob of acidic mucus with a hair-raising whistling sound?), deliver touch spells from 15' away (tendrils made of bile spring from under your jawline or armpits?) and resistant to crits (organs and blood vessels continually shift around like alive with guttural sloshing sound?)... so not altogether bad, and it makes you seem like you're part Shoggoth yourself, which may explain how you were brought back.
When deciding how to optimize, there are some things intrinsic to the bloodline & race to exploit
- The bloodline arcana makes Polymorphs last longer.
- As a Gnome your illusions are more powerful.
- Long range touch attacks make touch spells far more attractive both as buffs and attacks
This makes some build choices very appealing
- Offensive Polymorph spells: Excruciating Deformation, Baleful Polymorph, pick the Spell Focus - Transmutation feat to increase the DC
- Offensive Touch spells: Vampiric Touch (a fantastic opener), Chill Touch (1 spell for multiple touches; mix with a Polymorph to add 1d6+STR damage to natural attacks), Elemental Touch (another great enhancer for when Polymorphed)
- Polymorph Spells (for self): Avoid spells which change you into a form that can't cast more spells. So Alter Self, Animal Aspect, Monstrous Physique, Undead Anatomy and Elemental Body are all decent choices, depending on what sort of combos you want to go with. Be very strategic, because you're not a fighter.
- Polymorph Others: Pick a Summon Monster or Shadow Conjuration spell, so you can use Polymorph on them if you're alone.
- Gnome = Illusions: The Shadow Conjuration & Shadow Evocation spells add alot of flexibility to a Sorcerer's limited spell list. Pick one or more from Silent, Minor or Major image for the multiple battlefield control & other options they provide. An invisibility spell is also fun to mix with illusions, summons and buffing.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Here is the diabolist guide I mentioned. Diabolist can work with LN alignment. By RAW binding evil things is considered an evil act. It is worth mentioning the Malconvoker PRC from 3.5 which focused on summoning evil creatures and forcing them to do good deeds. Not going to turn this into an alignment debate thread but the general answer is ask your dm. Also a bit on contention between you and the party is not necessarily a bad thing but it definately is not for everyone :)
Also there are a ton of binding options available. Elementals are easy to bind and anyone can use them. Angels and Archons both are very interesting and have a wide variety of powers.
Misc Binding Items(avoiding the ones mentioned in the guide)
Summoning Chamber(ultimate campaign)
Planar Parchment(ultimate intrigue)
Wand of Build Trust(made by a paladin for 750)
Vat of Holy water suspended by an easy to cut rope
Goats/Rabbits for sacrifices(grant bonuses by RAW)
Dominos- easiest way to disrupt a magic circle after a set quantity of time
Caller's Feather(monster summoner's handbook)
Ring of Friend Shield
Thanks for all the advices! Really!
I've said something wrong about the race: i'm a tiefling in fact, appearing like a gnome tho.
So all my race trait are tiefling ones.
About calling it's fine for me to call evil creatures and no i don't want them to perform good deeds, or well, i could use those to hide my true pourposes, but hey, i was brought back to death from an evil deity to perform chaos and evil acts(lets say to play against the PC's, or more in depth, to play against one, the king of gnomes of a city i did create on my background according to his, Gnomeland).
My Str is actually 5, so i don't know if touch spells are something i want to consider, maybe also polymorph are nerfed by that, am i right?
About the deal with the creature i'm still doubtful, should i get some kind of spell to trap some cleric or so souls and give those to the evil outsider? Any ideas on how to do so or what to do to require their services? I think offering money could be quite expensive, since we don't get a lot of money and when i get it i try to spend it to increase my Dc or on RP items.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Tiefling Sorcerer? But Tieflings suffer a -2 to Charrrrrrrwaitaminute...
Fiendish Sorcery: Tiefling sorcerers with the Abyssal or Infernal bloodlines treat their Charisma score as 2 points higher for all sorcerer class abilities.
Oh.
Well see, now you're stuck with Abyssal or Infernal unless you want to suffer penalties to your class.That changes everything!
I did pick Tiefling for background pourposes, anyway i'm not straight tiefling, i remember i did pick a variant rule to get +2CHA for sure (the GM know that!).
Yeah by the way could you explain me better that +2CHA to my class? DCs? what else?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well i'm not too worried about ..
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Blood of Fiends offers variant tieflings with different ability modifiers. Should be able to find them on SRD
Demon Spawn
Div Spawn
Kyton Spawn- also bonus con
Rakshasa Spawn
Charisma is your primary stat and pretty necessary to get a sorcerer to work. Also it is needed for planar binding
Yeah that.s sure.. but the +2Cha given by the bloodline does apply to DC or Binding?
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell of the charm subschool, increase the spell's DC by +2.
I dont see why changing infernal with another does influence my pc.. the only ones charm spells i have are those given by the bloodline and i don't even use them.
I think i would change my bloodline.
And what about mythic spells? Are those worth a try? Which one could i take?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Cha bonuses apply to binding save dc and to your opposed charisma check. The opposed charisma check is what can make playing a binding wizard difficult as many outsiders have a +4 or higher and increasing your bonus is difficult.
Useless(name) was referring to the teifling racial ability Fiendish Sorcery that gives bonus cha when you have abyssal and infernal bloodline
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The abyssal or infernal bloodline bonus which tieflings get applies to sorcerer class abilities, spell DCs and number of bonus spells, but not to opposed cha checks I think.
Ohh i see, so i definitely want to stay on infernal bloodline :P!
About mythic spells? Which ones are worth taking?
About Infernal bloodline: it gives you Planar Binding at 13th for free (only devil/fiendish)
About Abyssal bloodline: it focus on things like Cleave or Sunder, no sense taking it i think
Up :D
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Two mythic tiers gives you one of the archmage arcana abilities (assuming that you take the archmage path; seems likely for a sorcerer), a mythic feat, two path abilities, and some other stuff which isn't relevant right now.
If you take the wild surge archmage arcana then you can spend one point of mythic power as a swift action to cast any non-mythic spell your level and the sorc/wiz spell list will allow. No spell known or spell slot required. This is good enough that this will be your archmage arcana.
You could get up to 6 mythic spells via the mythic spell lore feat and using both path abilities on mythic spellcasting (2 for each mythic feat and path ability). Each casting of a mythic spell costs a use of mythic power, you have a base of 7 points/day so you probably don't want to get the max number of mythic spells. There are some pretty good path abilities anyway. You have to know the non-mythic version of a spell to select it this way.
Assuming you're taking the infernal bloodline then Dominate Person gets better when mythic. I'm not sure which other non-mythic spells you're getting - I suggested some but that was weeks ago and you've selected a different bloodline since then. Care to post your current selection?
Ok i'm working on the selection talking with my GM, as a good player would do.
I'm really focused on getting planar binding (and the pack of spells needed to do so) and i will change some spells for the flavour like Booloo said (lke confusion and so on).
EDIT: ahh, Baleful Polymorph is something i surely want to keep, too fun and i use it very often, last session i got a Div polymorphed into a worm that i now carry with me (will probably use it as "animal companion" or trade it for services or so... with a dispel magic you can get it to base form so, it's nice!)
I also recently saved a demon (that skeleton similar one, i forgot the name, with a scorpion tail.. the mythic version. Yeah i'm working within and versus the party XD).
I will probably make a post for ideas on how to pray a evil deity, helping/not-helping the party while you have a paladin there xD! I need advices to not get killed badly! XD!!
About mythic path, Arcane Surge is an issue because we encounter very often and mostly mythic creatures :), so wont work i think.
But hey, Wild Arcana, that's exactly what i was looking for!!! it's a sorcerer must have i think! (thanks for this imput!!)
My GM gave me a "+3 caster level and damage maxed" on the spells i cast, as a result from my "damnation/serving an evil deity".
so i wonder, how can i use that at his best? (i'm not too confident with casters :C )
so exactly what does that caster level +3 involve?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Caster level is a stat that affects misc variables of your spells. Most spells have at least 1 thing in them listed in terms of caster level. Similar to X in algebra class you just plug in your caster level and then do the math. In addition caster level is used for overcoming spell resistance
EX: mage armor has a duration of 1 hour per caster level. Hence mage armor cast by a wizard with caster level 5 would last 5 hours
Caster level is by default equal to your level in your casting class. As a 12th level sorcerer you would normally have caster level 12. There are however misc abilities and effects that boost caster level.
Caster level is best used with offensive spells that scale with your caster level. At your level look at battering blast and chain lightning.
Also since you love baleful polymorph consider getting a metamagic rod of fleeting spell.
Binding Ritual(cohorts and companions) might be interesting to pick up for your 3rd mythic tier power
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Two mythic tiers gives you one of the archmage arcana abilities (assuming that you take the archmage path; seems likely for a sorcerer), a mythic feat, two path abilities, and some other stuff which isn't relevant right now.
If you take the wild surge archmage arcana then you can spend one point of mythic power as a swift action to cast any non-mythic spell your level and the sorc/wiz spell list will allow. No spell known or spell slot required. This is good enough that this will be your archmage arcana.
You could get up to 6 mythic spells via the mythic spell lore feat and using both path abilities on mythic spellcasting (2 for each mythic feat and path ability). Each casting of a mythic spell costs a use of mythic power, you have a base of 7 points/day so you probably don't want to get the max number of mythic spells. There are some pretty good path abilities anyway. You have to know the non-mythic version of a spell to select it this way.
Assuming you're taking the infernal bloodline then Dominate Person gets better when mythic. I'm not sure which other non-mythic spells you're getting - I suggested some but that was weeks ago and you've selected a different bloodline since then. Care to post your current selection?
mythic spells only take 1 mythic power to use IF they're not ones you already know how to cast - so say you take the mythic spell lore feat and get 2 mythic spells, these as a sorcerer have to be ones you already know, but now every time you cast them they're the mythic versions, any OTHER spells you can cast as the mythic version by spending 1 mythic to use. Interestingly this seems to work with Wild Arcana - you spend 2 mythic (+ any augment cost) and you can cast any spell as mythic without having to know it - it is however as per this FAQ, a standard action to do so
Mythic spell lore, sorry where can i find that?
So you're suggesting me to take Wild arcana, is that it?
@Dastis: does Caster level do something on binding spells we mentioned above?
I'm not too much oriented on taking damage spells, aka i'm not and i wouldn't be a Blaster Sorcerer.
It increases the dc to escape the binding by a little bit(1/2 cl if I remember correctly). Not a big deal as the excape dc is pretty high already and it scales poorly.
I would note that binding is an out of combat role as you are not spending 10-20 min mid combat for 1 critter. You should look for something to spend your actions on in combat. Summoning, blasting, debuffing, and buffing are your general options
Summoning: grab augment summons then summon monster III, V, and VI. For super cheese heighten mount + alter summon monster
Debuffing: enervation with empower/maximize spell. Prob spend a trait to lower the metamagic cost by 1. See if that auto maximize applies
Buffing: haste, enlarge person, etc. Really this is all spell selection based on what bound creatures you bring with you and your party members
Well, we've a summoner in the party already providing summoning and buffing.
I'll focus more on debuffing, that's sure (Baleful Polymorph hey hey hey!).
Binding is out of combat that's sure, tho seems a very nice spells combo to have in my opinion.
Yeah baleful polymorph is fun
Feats: Spell Focus, Focused Spell, Persistent Spell, Quicken Spell, Spell Perfection
Grab that trait that lowers metamagic cost by 1
You probably also want enervation still. The penalties to saving throws are amazing. Also grab greater dispel magic. Its a great debuff that happens to use that CL bonus well. In addition it combos with baleful polymorph. My Diabolist kept a box of "kittens". Rod of Fleeting spell can likewise be helpful
Watch out though, targets that keep their mental stats keep their SLA. Of course this can be used to your advantage. Look at some of the SLAs outsiders get.
If you are ok with a bit of summoning check out the PRC Blackfire Adept(darkfire adept on PRC). With Prestigious spellcaster(feat) you don't even lose CL for the first 4 levels
Misc other Debuffs: Glitterdust, Slow, Dazzling Blade Mass, Icy Prison
Extra Reading: DMDM's(Douglas Muir) guides to; Planar Binding, Diabolist, Blackfire Adept