Soo..about that occultist


Advice


Just curious what the general opinion is on the class, I don't see too many posts on it. I like the idea and aspects of it but sometimes get a meh feeling towards it...maybe it is the limited magic. Thinking about a big weapon fighter taking trans, abj and possibly necro asap.Straight occultist so i can pick up options as I go, not sure battle host really makes up for the loss


One downside of a martial occultist is that almost everything cool is a standard action. A magus imbues his blade as a swift action, does a full-attack followed by a touch spell that grants yet another free weapon attack. You spend a standard action to give your weapon the bane ability and pass.

That being said when you have time to get some buffs going the occultist can be a lot of fun. If your allies tend to slaughter everything within the first round of combat you will probably find yourself in more of a supportive role, but the good news is that the occultist is flexible enough to do that switch on a whim.


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My favorite utility character's have been occultists, they make fantastic batmen with the perfect gadget for any situation.


Can you explain a little what you mean by that shroudedinlight


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They are able to do what few other classes can do - they can be competent strikers (through legacy weapon; haunted collector is a big DPR boost also) while having a wide array of other abilities:

- they can cure
- they can summon
- they can blast

while having utility spells available.


Haunted collector is a big dpr boost? Is it better than battle host


Yes if you are willing to put a lot of points into the implement you assign as champion. It gives the seance bonus (+2 damage) and a swift action to gain the spirit bonus to attack and damage up to 1 + 1/4 levels.

Battle host gives feats and the insight bonus to a physical stat.


I love it.. but it always feels a bits stymied.
Everything is a standard action. so most of the things you can't really use in a battle.. maybe one of them.. I really wish there had been thigns you could chose later that would allow one choice to be sped up. Or something like that.. Honestly some things, like legacy weapon, the armour one, and a few others should really allow for swift action use. Or, at least self upgrade later at like lv 10 or something.
Some of the special item school abilities don't have nearly enough return for point investment. Evocation being my go to example... That basic elemental strike is too short of range, or far too weak damaging for the cost. The Blast, costs 2 points, which is far too much for the damage it does.

Additionally I don't think the spell list has enough variety for things.
For instance.. I always want to make a Tome Eater, who is almost entirely magic, sans a fewfun choices.
but.. Evocation spell list is just so very lacking.
I don't mind it having not as much stuff.. but really every spell school should have a spell useful to every sort of build that the class seems like it was made for.. or someway to add spells to the spelllist choices or something..

I would absolutely love a tome eater with evocation, divination, transmutation (and whatever else after) that had some offensive spell like.. battering blast, or abjuring blast (lv2) or scorching ray (lv 2) or something. Honestly speaking. This would be the perfect class to make a force specialist in for me. It has few enough spells per day that it isn't squiffy, due to their limited choices it would be always solidly useful, even if never amazing. And lastly, and imo most importantly. The concept of otherworldly force is PEFRECT for occultist flavor. Or at least they should've gotten more of the new psychic spells on their list. Really they have so few. Its very strange actually that they really only have a few of them compared to the other classes.

I'm just using one example but there are a few other choices that just feel "lacking" in spells but the class itself seems to point at it being an option. Off hand another option is the whole necromancy idea or summoning duration school choice's... but the spell list doesn't really support either thought process.

The class is great but i feel they kind of just tossed someone who briefly read the class at the spell list creation.

Scarab Sages

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I just wish they could get horrid wilting as a 6th-level spell.

A high-level Occultist SHOULD be able to stand atop the shriveled corpses of his enemies, their mummified faces frozen in grimaces of terror, as he holds the Skull of Mictlathotep high above his head, a vortex of black energy swirling around it! HUAAA-HAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

*ahem* Just saying.


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Occultist is a very solid class with some difficult mechanics to work with. Lintecarka is absolutely correct that you end up feeling choked by the standard action part of buffs much of the time. That said, that standard action is very, VERY powerful from a support standpoint.

My archer occultist routinely gets around the buff time problem by giving himself 90' movement speed so he can maneuver around corners, into hiding spots, etc. so he can get that buff time. With a +2 weapon, a level 6 or higher occultist can push it to a +5 equivalent to bypass any DR (+1 bane added), but unlike the magus, your list is completely unrestricted. I cannot stress enough how powerful this is. Fighting something with Fickle Winds, a wind effect, or just being underwater? Cyclonic (+2 equivalent) solves the problem. Don't have Seeking yet, but the opponent is using displacement? You can toss both Seeking and Limning on the weapon and the problem goes away for the whole party. Concerned about teleportation on critters? Phase Locking. You know you're going up against a cleric? Add +1 Healer's Sorrow to an arrow so you can cut its healing in half. Numerous invisible creatures? Glitterwake will highlight everything within 10' of the projectile's path. Incorporeals? Ghost Touch.

Basically, all those abilities that are considered too situational to use are within your reach. This is literally the give-away bonus you get for taking a transmutation implement. Remember how I said it's powerful for support, though? Legacy Weapon is weapon touched, not personal. You can give this to your allies. This is like having Martial Flexibility for weapons, and Martial Flexibility is widely considered one of the best class features in the game (besides spells, of course). In a recent game I was GMing, the APL 10 party was fighting a CR 14 dragon and the party super-buffed the archer inquisitor to take it out. Seeking was applied to ignore miss chance and it had a significant impact on the fight. There were several other buffs that were tossed out, but that really drove home exactly how good this ability is and how you're likely to have it at level 1 because of how good the Transmutation list is for the Occultist.

Occultist is honestly one of my favorite classes at the moment and its because of how versatile they are and what they bring to the party. Legacy Weapon being one of the single biggest enablers in the game is a big part of that.


An interesting but mechanically weak class.


My favorite of the occult classes.

Battle Host is good for snatching masterwork full plate at first level.


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I haven't had a chance to play an occultist yet, but I very much want to. My feeling is that they might be the most versatile class in the game, being able to cover multiple roles fairly well. But if you try to shoehorn it into one thing or expect to be a DPR monster you will be very disappointed.


The Occultist is probably my favorite of the 6-level casting classes, and that's saying a lot since there are a lot of great ones in this game.

One thing that nobody has mentioned yet, the Occultist is the best at UMD (particularly if you took the pragmatic activator trait) which is always a neat trick to have. I had one in Reign of Winter, and I was able to drive the hut probably before this was intended by the designers.


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I was the first person to snatch up the class in my area, and now I'm known as "the Occultist guy." I love how they can be built in a different way each time you start with a new implement.

It might not be the best class, but I like how versatile they are in a very narrow field. It also combines my favourite things: three-quarter BAB with spells, with great armour and weapon proficiencies. I always described them as "highly specialised Wizards who can actually hit things in combat."

As said, they're not as flexible as a Magus, but that class is insane. You don't want to waste too many rounds on buffing, so keep it to one or two and wade into melee. My Occultist was running multiple 10 minute/level buffs and had some weird unoptimal spells on his list so I don't have to bother with them once combat breaks out.

My first Occultist was a melee beast. Heavy Abjuration focus so I was tanking hits and using Mind Barrier almost every round, and then focusing on Strength. I kept getting hit, but the Mind Barrier absorbed most of the blows, giving me much more staying power than a Barbarian, who runs out of HP eventually. For instance, at level 12, I had 11 points in Abjuration, so I can potentially absorb 264 damage in total before even scratching my own HP. My second Occultist is a Necroccultist who does absolutely bonkers things with his Necromantic Servant. Your players need to be okay with it, but it's basically an animal companion that can wield weapons.


I think the Occultist is a little bit on the strange side. It's fluff doesn't mesh well with the class's abilities. It supposedly focuses on generating magical effects by using the psychic resonance of certain items. That's a great idea, but the related abilities are somewhat limited (the spell list is rather lacking). On the other hand, the class's weapon and armour proficiencies make it out to be a warrior, but only a few of the resonant and focus powers support this.

If there was a way to expand the spell list (the powers seem to be fine) as well as limit the proficiencies to light armour and simple weapons, I'd play it in a heartbeat.


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I think the spell list is fine the way it is when you consider that you also get focus powers.

Here is an example of my planned occultist at level 4:

Spells
Level 1 (4 slots) - Shield, Lead Blades, Cure Light Wounds
Level 2 (2 slots) - Resist Energy, Weapon of Awe, Glitterdust

Focus Powers
Conjuration (Haunted Champion, 6 points) - Servitor (summon monster II for 1 minute as a standard action), Flesh Mend (Heal 1-8+4)
Transmutation (3 points) - Legacy Weapon (add bane to weapon), Sudden Move (swift action +30' movement)

Resonant Powers
Seance Bonus (+2 damage)
Physical Enhancement (+2STR)

I don't know if there is any other class that could do all of these things at level 4. Spell boosts (weapon of awe +2 damage, lead blades). Defensive spells (shield, resist energy). Healing (cure light wounds, flesh mending). Summoning (summon monster II as a standard action). Combat buffs (seance bonus, physical enhancement, and swift action champion spirit bonus). And with martial weapons, shields and medium armor.


I've tried building a summoner out of the Occultist. It works decently at low levels, but Servitor scales terribly. Standard action summons are great, though.

But yeah, I love how his focus powers sort of mimic spells, so even though you have a crappy amount of spells known, you can still diversify however you want. You can even double up on Fireballs, for instance. And slapping Bane on weapons is great. Hell, if you have enough knowledge of the magic weapon list, you can even slap on other stuff. There's not much stuff you'd want to use, but things like Holy or other situational stuff can be great.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Quentin Coldwater wrote:
I've tried building a summoner out of the Occultist. It works decently at low levels, but Servitor scales terribly. Standard action summons are great, though.

That's why you pump up your save DC and use the Illusion implement power Shadow Beast, which can summon higher-level stuff than Conjuration for some reason.


nicholas storm wrote:

I think the spell list is fine the way it is when you consider that you also get focus powers.

Oh, the spell list is quite good for melee or archery based thing.

but the spell list isn't so good for (as other pointed out) building something not specialized in bashing or riddling someone with weapons only.

but almost everything, and several of the archetypes tout other concepts. Had the spell list been expanded more it would allow for a variety of interesting concepts that the abilities imply.. but can't manage.


Yeah, the Occultist has more or less every spell a character that wants to smash face wishes they had from time to time (Dispel Magic, Etheric Shards, Haste, Wind Wall, Greater Invisibility, Mirror Image, Teleport, Heal, etc.) So it's great for a "I use magic to enhance my combat ability" or "to do things that aren't combat related" character, it's just difficult-to-impossible to build an occultist that frightens anybody with its magic directly."

As a 3/4 BAB 6 level caster, it's more on the line of "a caster for people who like martials" since you pick implements for focus powers, then you just pick whatever the best spell is at each level, and you go from there.


Zwordsman wrote:
nicholas storm wrote:

I think the spell list is fine the way it is when you consider that you also get focus powers.

Oh, the spell list is quite good for melee or archery based thing.

but the spell list isn't so good for (as other pointed out) building something not specialized in bashing or riddling someone with weapons only.

but almost everything, and several of the archetypes tout other concepts. Had the spell list been expanded more it would allow for a variety of interesting concepts that the abilities imply.. but can't manage.

I can agree with that. The occultist doesn't have to be a caster class to be viable when you consider that there are lots of those to choose from.


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Declindgrunt wrote:
Can you explain a little what you mean by that shroudedinlight

Sure thing Declind. There is an occultist-lite archetype for the Vigilante class called the Psychometrist who gains four impliment schools and ten focus powers. However for every one of those focus powers the Psychometrist needs to have a different object or gadget. While that is not the case for the occultist (they only have one object per school), that is the mental metaphor I use to help me understand how the class works.

The occultist however gains up to 17 powers (assuming no duplicate schools) and 42 spells. While you need to divide your focus among seven different implements, each of those implements has access to different powers that allow the occultist to get out of a bind. Sort of like Batman's toolkit. If you pick your spells and powers carefully (and distribute focus properly), you can have a solution to any variety of problems at your fingertips.

One of my favorite NPCs was a 5th level occultist pirate captain who used Divination to scout ahead, Transmutation for Wood Shape (infinitely useful for shipboard combat), and Illusion for Invisibility.

While pirate battles are fairly easy to plan for, an adventuring day is not. So building the right batman is important.


LuniasM wrote:
Quentin Coldwater wrote:
I've tried building a summoner out of the Occultist. It works decently at low levels, but Servitor scales terribly. Standard action summons are great, though.
That's why you pump up your save DC and use the Illusion implement power Shadow Beast, which can summon higher-level stuff than Conjuration for some reason.

Well, it's pretty obvious. Servitor is a standard action, it has to scale badly, otherwise it's too good. Standard action Large Earth Elemental at level 9 is pretty scary. The only saving grace is that you can't "undercast" it for more critters. Shadow Beast is disbelievable, so to offset that downside, it has to be better than the alternative.

Still haven't run the exact numbers on which is better on average, but I think they're close. But yeah, I should've mentioned Shadow Beast in that post.


Quentin Coldwater wrote:
LuniasM wrote:
Quentin Coldwater wrote:
I've tried building a summoner out of the Occultist. It works decently at low levels, but Servitor scales terribly. Standard action summons are great, though.
That's why you pump up your save DC and use the Illusion implement power Shadow Beast, which can summon higher-level stuff than Conjuration for some reason.
Well, it's pretty obvious. Servitor is a standard action, it has to scale badly, otherwise it's too good.

Occultist Arcanists, Summoners, and Wordcasters say hi.


I kind of want to try wword magic on a occultist.
be weird to set up though. i imagine? i duno
never got to play a word caster, and i havent' read or built one since 2012 or 2013.


I went with a bad voodoo gnome focusing on necromancy. It worked out better than the necromancer or death domain clerics I tried.

I also built (haven't played yet) an illusion transmuter. All the spells I wish a rogue had access to, with just enough physical punch to make sneak strikes useful.


You have a point with the Occultist Arcanist, but they do give up an exploit for it. Occultists (the psychic kind) get it more or less for free when they choose the implement. For Arcanists it costs more points the higher level Summon you want to conjure up, while the psychic Occultist gets one summon per point, regardless of level.
And yeah, we all know Summoners are kind of weird like that. Not a big fan of the class.
I have little to no experience with Wordcasters, so I won't comment on that.

I'm not sure if the Necromancy-focused Occultist works better than a regular Necromancy-focused arcane caster/Cleric, but I do like the spin they have on it. Restoring your skeletal buddy almost instantly as long as it's near enough is pretty sweet.

And yeah, that's what I like about the Occultist: he's a Swiss army knife (or as someone already mentioned, Batman) of various magical utilities, while still being powerful in other areas. They're much more focused than a Wizard in some areas, but complement that narrowness with physical power.


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I'd never noticed the haunt collector archetype. It really provides a rather substantial damage boost but I was wondering which resonant power one should forgoe at level 2?

If I recall correctly the standard approach for melee occultists is to get transmutation and Abjuration early. Divination seems like a useful school for dropping mental focus as long as you have racial Darkvision.

This might be a fun build for PFS which meets my criteria for fun characters: a) good at combat b) skills c) other out of combat utility

Edit: Also cheesy me already found a way to get the Champion Seance boon twice at level 6 by channeling the marshall into your 4th implement. Prolly pretty sweet when doing archery...


Lot of versatility. Great when they have time to "set up" in advance. They make terrible, terrible necromancers.


Alex Mack wrote:

I'd never noticed the haunt collector archetype. It really provides a rather substantial damage boost but I was wondering which resonant power one should forgoe at level 2?

If I recall correctly the standard approach for melee occultists is to get transmutation and Abjuration early. Divination seems like a useful school for dropping mental focus as long as you have racial Darkvision.

This might be a fun build for PFS which meets my criteria for fun characters: a) good at combat b) skills c) other out of combat utility

Edit: Also cheesy me already found a way to get the Champion Seance boon twice at level 6 by channeling the marshall into your 4th implement. Prolly pretty sweet when doing archery...

Haunt Collector looks sweet, but I have the same problem, all of the Resonant Powers are too sweet to give up. Enchantment looks replaceable enough if you're not gunning for party face. Similarly, Necromancy's expendable if you don't want to raise undead. And Conjuration doesn't have too many rounds/level spells you'd want to extend, I feel.


I was planning on conjuration at L2. It really requires you to put a lot of mental focus into that implement to get the most out of the champion power, so I was going to use the points in servitor and flesh mend. Maybe not the greatest use.

Abjuration has a lot of swift action abilities that conflict with doing the champion swift.

Divination has nice resonant abilities.

Evocation could be an option if you want to do blast a lot; but I think I still prefer junky summons and healing.

Illusion and Necromancy would be options I would consider.

Transmutation has a very nice resonant ability.

I don't think champion seance boon stacks with itself.


nicholas storm wrote:


I don't think champion seance boon stacks with itself.

Why wouldn't it? It's untyped...anyways it's once champion and once Marshall...


Daedalus the Dungeon Builder wrote:
Quentin Coldwater wrote:
LuniasM wrote:
Quentin Coldwater wrote:
I've tried building a summoner out of the Occultist. It works decently at low levels, but Servitor scales terribly. Standard action summons are great, though.
That's why you pump up your save DC and use the Illusion implement power Shadow Beast, which can summon higher-level stuff than Conjuration for some reason.
Well, it's pretty obvious. Servitor is a standard action, it has to scale badly, otherwise it's too good.
Occultist Arcanists, Summoners, and Wordcasters say hi.

Also the Inquisitor archetype that trades out Judgements for summons that also get free teamwork feats.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

The occultist tends to work best as a summoner at lower levels: Servitor is a standard action and lasts 1 min (instead of 1 round per level). As many have mentioned, the slower scaling makes it less useful as the campaign progresses.

The Conjuration implement school has some really nice focus powers, though: Conjure Implement, paired with the Transmutation base focus power Legacy Weapon, lets you create weapons (as weapons are transmutation implements) and add magic abilities to them as needed; Mind Steed can be used for a mounted combat occultist; Side Step is pretty boss, allowing 10 ft per level movement for only 5 ft of movement (and explicitly "can use this ability as part of a move action taken to move," allowing a standard action as well).


The main strength of the occultists summoning is that mental focus is way easier to come by then spell slots. The full casters summons are only stronger when he uses his highest spell slot, so maybe 3-5 times a day.
The occultist gets at least his level + intelligence modifier in mental focus (with some easy ways to increase the pool) and could theoretically use every single focus point to summon stuff.


In practice though, I found I wanted to devote a lot of focus to transmutation (since everybody can use better stats, or you can just hand it to someone else), abjuration (everybody would like a free cloak of resistance), and divination (seeing things is great!).

So I think putting *everything* into conjuration is questionable. The resonant power for conjuration is pretty weak, as there are surprisingly few conjuration spells on your list that actually have a duration in rounds/level (I feel like that resonant power was designed in a time when the occultist had summon spells on the spell list which were latter replaced with servitor because of the whole "one spell per implement per level" thing.)

Silver Crusade

I like the occultist class from theory crafting, but I haven't had a chance to play one yet. I've designed two for PFS so far, just haven't gotten to use them. This is the down side of having 20+ PFS characters. You get to try everything... eventually.

Alex Mack wrote:

I'd never noticed the haunt collector archetype. It really provides a rather substantial damage boost but I was wondering which resonant power one should forgoe at level 2?

If I recall correctly the standard approach for melee occultists is to get transmutation and Abjuration early. Divination seems like a useful school for dropping mental focus as long as you have racial Darkvision.

This might be a fun build for PFS which meets my criteria for fun characters: a) good at combat b) skills c) other out of combat utility

This is pretty much how I built my melee occultist. The plan is transmutation and divination at level 1, then abjuration at level 2 with the champion spirit. All you're giving up from abjuration is saving money on having to buy a Cloak of Resistance, and it's not an implement I was going to invest a lot of points in anyway. I just want the +2 damage per hit from the champion - I doubt if I'll ever bother with the swift action extra bonus, due to other things taking up my swift actions and focus points.

Alex Mack wrote:
Edit: Also cheesy me already found a way to get the Champion Seance boon twice at level 6 by channeling the marshall into your 4th implement. Prolly pretty sweet when doing archery...

Paizo has already ruled that this doesn't work.

As for other occultist ideas, my second one is a casting/skill focused non-weapon occultist. I'm thinking conjuration early for healing and servitor, enchantment for offensive spells, divination for utility. The character will mostly be a support/utility PC, as both a skill monkey and magic type. We'll see how that works out. Out of combat, it should be a great character. In combat, I'm hoping I have enough buffs, enchantments, Glitterdust, and healing to be useful.


PossibleCabbage wrote:

In practice though, I found I wanted to devote a lot of focus to transmutation (since everybody can use better stats, or you can just hand it to someone else), abjuration (everybody would like a free cloak of resistance), and divination (seeing things is great!).

So I think putting *everything* into conjuration is questionable. The resonant power for conjuration is pretty weak, as there are surprisingly few conjuration spells on your list that actually have a duration in rounds/level (I feel like that resonant power was designed in a time when the occultist had summon spells on the spell list which were latter replaced with servitor because of the whole "one spell per implement per level" thing.)

I agree that you usually don't want to gather all the focus power in one implement, but the possibility exists nonetheless. Putting a lot of points into abjuration seems wasted however, as a cloak of resistance is rather cheap and you shouldn't need too many of the defensive focus powers if you stay away from the frontline.

Investing a lot of mental focus into conjuration without using the haunted collector archetype would still be a bad idea of course, but most likely you want to switch to another school either way. Conjuration summons can't really keep up with the monsters AC, so you want illusion or probably necromancy as the school of choice. Even more so as the illusion resonant power really shines if your first priorities are summoning and buffing.


Abjuration isn't the hungriest implement (2, 4, 6, 8, 10 at levels 1, 5, 9, 13, and 17 to top off the resistance bonus) and getting to use your shoulder slot for something ever than the obligatory cloak of resistance is fun. The extra focus in abjuration can be handy since the immediate action activation of energy shield or mind barrier cost double (and the "oh crap" moments are when you'll want that for a non-frontliner.)


nicholas storm wrote:

I was planning on conjuration at L2. It really requires you to put a lot of mental focus into that implement to get the most out of the champion power, so I was going to use the points in servitor and flesh mend. Maybe not the greatest use.

Abjuration has a lot of swift action abilities that conflict with doing the champion swift.

Divination has nice resonant abilities.

Evocation could be an option if you want to do blast a lot; but I think I still prefer junky summons and healing.

Illusion and Necromancy would be options I would consider.

Transmutation has a very nice resonant ability.

I don't think champion seance boon stacks with itself.

Do most people take more than 2 implement schools? I like that an occultist can combine two schools better than a specialist wizard. The reason my voodoo worked (was fun to play) is because he was necromantic and enchantment. My 'adept' works because it is stealth and illusion.

Taking a third school might be cool (with a low mental focus), but taking them all seems like it would be watered their power.


My melee Occultist has at level 13:
- 11 in Abjuration (as I've said, he tends to throw on Mind Barrier almost every round of combat).
- 9 in Transmutation (the minimum to get his Resonant powers going. He likes to use it on Legacy Weapon, Mind over Gravity and Sudden Speed).
- 3 in Illusion (permanent 15% displacement, some Shadow Beasts if I'm feeling outnumbered).
- 2 in Evocation (to get a slight boost to his Evocation spells. He rarely gets to fire his Energy Rays).

So yeah, I feel like two main schools are ideal to focus on. Dabble a bit in others if you want to, but don't spread yourself too thin. Two schools are all you really need to make a concept work, the rest is just there to give you extra spells and even out your weaknesses. You simply don't have the Mental Focus to power three schools.


I have a level 8 Occultist (Necrocultist - I know not the best archetype by a mile but I liked the flavor and its gotten him some nice spells) in PFS, and his daily Focus is currently:

Divination - 9: Mind's Eye
Necromancy - 6: Necromancitc Servant
Transmutation - 6: Size Alteration, Mind Over Gravity

He's a support build that in combat mostly either debuffs (love me that Blindness/Deafness) or boosts the rest of the party with things like Haste, standard-action Enlarge, and making their weapons fit the current problem perfectly. Mind's Eye also lets him be a very good scout.

From playing him for 8 levels now, I have to say I really like the Occultist class in execution as much as I did looking at it. You can make a really good melee/Battle Host Occultist as well, but while Salouris sticks to the background he has plenty of skills and the focus powers offer him a wide variety of things to do.

The one comment/criticism I would give the class is that if you decide not to take Transmutation as an implement by 2nd level you should have a very good reason. At 6th level, Legacy weapon can provide answers to:

~DR (Apart from Bane and the Holy/Unholy/etc abilities, Planar is useful against elementals)
~Darkness (Glorious)
~Incorpoeral foes (Ghost Touch)
~Concealment (Heartseeker/Limining/Seeking)
~Needing to take someone alive (Merciful)

Even just tossing +1 and Bane against whatever you're fighting that combat onto the fighter's sword is usually well worth a single action.


Alex Mack wrote:
nicholas storm wrote:


I don't think champion seance boon stacks with itself.

Why wouldn't it? It's untyped...anyways it's once champion and once Marshall...

I asked Mark Seifter about that combination. He said that they don't stack, because Marshal grants the actual Champion Boon rather than merely duplicating its effects.

Mark Seifter wrote:
Gisher wrote:

Hi, Mark! I have a very specific Medium-related question that I would love your opinion on. Consider a Haunt Collector Occultist who has selected the Champion Spirit and Marshal Spirit for two of their Implements. If they used the Marshal Spirit to gain the the Champion Spirit Seance Boon would the two Seance Boons stack to give +4 damage or would they not stack and simply grant +2?

They are both untyped bonuses, so my issue is whether they have the same source or not. I keep going back and forth on different ways of thinking about the sources.

They don't stack
-Because the source for both is the Possessed Possessions class feature.
-Because the Marshal Seance is actually granting them the Champion Seance Bonus which they already have.

They do stack
-Because each is granted by a different Implement and those are different sources.
-Because they are each granted by a different Spirit with the Marshal Boon simply mimicking the Champion boon rather than granting the actual Champion Boon.

Any insight on this would be appreciated.

Don't stack reason #2: The marshal seance is actually granting them the champion seance which they already have.

Edit: I see Fromper already mentioned this.


Quentin Coldwater wrote:
Alex Mack wrote:

I'd never noticed the haunt collector archetype. It really provides a rather substantial damage boost but I was wondering which resonant power one should forgoe at level 2?

If I recall correctly the standard approach for melee occultists is to get transmutation and Abjuration early. Divination seems like a useful school for dropping mental focus as long as you have racial Darkvision.

This might be a fun build for PFS which meets my criteria for fun characters: a) good at combat b) skills c) other out of combat utility

Edit: Also cheesy me already found a way to get the Champion Seance boon twice at level 6 by channeling the marshall into your 4th implement. Prolly pretty sweet when doing archery...

Haunt Collector looks sweet, but I have the same problem, all of the Resonant Powers are too sweet to give up. Enchantment looks replaceable enough if you're not gunning for party face. Similarly, Necromancy's expendable if you don't want to raise undead. And Conjuration doesn't have too many rounds/level spells you'd want to extend, I feel.

The only Occultist spell that works with the Conjuration Resonant Power is Glitterdust. It is basically useless unless you plan to loan your Implement to a caster with a better spell list. It is probably the best choice to replace with one of the wonderful Seance Boons.


Quentin Coldwater wrote:

I've tried building a summoner out of the Occultist. It works decently at low levels, but Servitor scales terribly. Standard action summons are great, though.

...

I've toyed with trying this with a Sha'ir Occultist since they can get various Summon Monster spells (Elementals only). Augment Summoning will work with these spells, and will work with Servitor. You can also use the Size Alteration Transformation Focus Power to enlarge your summoned creatures since it is not restricted to humanoids.


Ohh, I like that. Too bad the Sha'ir gets absolutely terrible implement progression. I really like the flavour, but you're giving up a lot of utility for it.


Quentin Coldwater wrote:
Ohh, I like that. Too bad the Sha'ir gets absolutely terrible implement progression. I really like the flavour, but you're giving up a lot of utility for it.

Agreed. Still, flavor can be important. If you decide to make one, you might find my Jin statblocks and Elemental School spell list useful. The spell lists include the updates from Planes of Power.

The Exchange

my PFS main is currently an Occultist(Haunt Collector archetype), and I'm having a blast!

He's a classic red mage - he may not be the best at anything, but he's usually the second best at EVERYTHING.. and I do mean everything. He has respectable Tanking, Melee, Blasting, Sneaking, Healing, decent value in nearly every skill including all knowledges, short range teleportation, flight, speaks a dozen languages, ID's magic items like a boss, and eats Haunts for breakfast.
The only thing he can't do is Bluff, and that's b/c of an RP decision I made that he hates Lieing, not a mechanical limitation.

Everybody seems to enjoy playing with him and he's ALWAYS got something to contribute in every scenario.

There've actually been a few times when I've had to bite my lips and sit on my hands so other Players could do something, even though I knew he could've soloed every non-combat part (and 2/3 of the combat) of a few scenarios.

And all of that is despite the fact that I chose a "sub par" race for the Occultist (Wayang as opposed to the three 'good' races for occultist - human, halfling, elf).

Grand Lodge

Quentin Coldwater wrote:


- 3 in Illusion (permanent 15% displacement, some Shadow Beasts if I'm feeling outnumbered).

Note, the displacement is not "permanent". It only works until you make an attack.

(And then usually after combat you activate it again.)

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